Shadowrun

Off-topic => Off-off-topic => Topic started by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-03-12/1933:14>

Title: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-03-12/1933:14>
So, I've been looking up the stuff for the upcoming TV series Revolution.  In it, the writers and who all expect you to believe that the removal of electricity sends civilization back to the stone age, without critical technological innovations in transportation or firearms.  Cars don't work, and neither do guns or trains.

Seriously, what the fuck?  There are a number of points where this is absolutely asinine, but here I will list only a few.  Feel free to add your own.

(1)  Up until 150 years ago, electricity was a novel thing, used for parlour tricks and the like.  The telegraph was a huge innovation in the use of electricity, as was the light bulb.  Steam power was the way to get around, from trains to riverboats to ships of the line.  Assuming electricity sends us back 10,000 years is simply not true, and is really just a poorly researched idea on the writers part.  Steam power will work just fine.

(2)  Even assuming electricity goes bye-bye, diesel engines still work just fine.  Does everything get harder?  Sure does, but using a diesel engine (which does not require electricity to function) to mechanically power whatever you need (or just to get around) is still viable.  Can you get around the colder areas of the Earth as well?  No, so that's an issue, but one I doubt will be addressed.

(3)  Firearms do not use electricity, nor do they require it in their construction.  Hydraulics work still, they just require a different power source than an electric motor.  So contruction and manufacturing still work, just not as well or as efficiently.  (Firearms, as used for warfare, are thousands of years old.)  So making and reloading firearms works just fine.

Anyone else see some issues with the show's conceit?
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-03-12/2259:06>
The Industrial Revolution started with WATER WHEELS.

How's that for old skool technology?
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: PeterSmith on <08-03-12/2333:35>
(2)  Even assuming electricity goes bye-bye, diesel engines still work just fine.  Does everything get harder?  Sure does, but using a diesel engine (which does not require electricity to function) to mechanically power whatever you need (or just to get around) is still viable.  Can you get around the colder areas of the Earth as well?  No, so that's an issue, but one I doubt will be addressed.

Diesels definately need electricity to run. Do they have spark plugs? No. Have they used computers to operate the engines for longer than gas engines? Oh very much so.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: DarkLloyd on <08-04-12/0035:37>
Yes, things would go to hell rather quickly without electricity.
How many people know how to cook nowadays much less grow/gather their own food? You couldn't keep things refrigerated so no long term storage of food which means daily hunting trips. How many people have enough ammo for that?
For that matter even the ones that could use a rifle well enough to hunt an animal how many of those can clean it?
Millions to billions would die from starvation and fighting over the bits of food stores they could get.
 
Then you start with the diseases that would start going rampant.
Then the fires that would gut the cities from morons that didn't know how to manage a fire properly. Speaking of that how many people do you know that actually can make a fire with out matches or a lighter?
Then when winter comes by you loose tons more people.
Also gas and diesel go bad after awhile so your  diesels would be just as dead as everything else soon enough.

Rural places might do okay, due to their reliance on farming and ranching type professions. But any decent city would pretty much be a death trap.

For a really good look at what I'm pretty sure this series is ripping off for it's premise go read  S.M. Stirling And the Emberverse series (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/14002.S_M_Stirling) And well they are just really good reads.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: AJCarrington on <08-04-12/0950:50>
@DarkLloyd:  thanks for this link...fan of Sterling's alternate history stuff, but missed these (now added to the ever growing list of books to be read).

@The_Gun_Nut: interesting points, but then do you expect much less? ;) I'm just happy that there are some shows out (and coming out) there with a very different vibe vs the standard network fare.  That being said, if the writing sucks, I won't be able to look over the "setting" premises.

AJC
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-04-12/1550:31>
Diesels definately need electricity to run. Do they have spark plugs? No. Have they used computers to operate the engines for longer than gas engines? Oh very much so.
Modern diesels, yes.  Old skool diesels, no.  The only electrical system you "Need" in a Diesel is the starter, which could be replaced with a hand crank (Ow!) or a push start system (Hope you're not trying to get uphill!).

A T-34 didn't have a computer at all for it's engine.  You had a tin cup filled with polluted diesel fuel to thaw the damned thing out if it froze in a Russian Winter, that's it.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-04-12/1946:15>
Big cities like New York or Los Angeles or Washington D.C. will be devastated.  They will, indeed, become death traps.  But that's only in the first year or two.  The series is set 15 years after it all comes to a stop, so that's plenty of time for cooler heads to reinvigorate older designs.

In fact, many of the old steam engines are museum pieces that are meticulously cared for.  Jay Leno has a number of them in his personal collection, and the city of Conway, Arkansas' utility company, Conway Corporation, has an old steam generator on display in their office (BTW, it's big).  While it couldnt generate electrical power, it is still an engine capable of generating mechanical power.

A few other points:

(1)  I can see factories switching back to the old "central shaft" style of power distribution, or simply going with all pnematic systems (compressed air doesn't care how you squish it).

(2)  I can see the big libraries (NYC library, the Library of Congress) becoming incredibly important and popular sites for learning.  They would supply the information for old style technologies and their applications.

(3)  Zepplins do not require electricity to function, either.  A steam plant aboard one of those would be dangerous, but innovation abounds during hardships.

(4)  Medicines don't require electricity to produce, except in very large quantities for quality control.  A chemist could write his ticket to anywhere he chose.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: PeterSmith on <08-04-12/2031:07>
Modern diesels, yes.  Old skool diesels, no.

And where do you expect to see these "old skool" diesels? Mt. St. Helens did a great job of getting rid of a lot of old diesels (the ash got past a lot of filters, trashed a lot of cylinders). Then the various environmental laws made is much more economical to replace old engines with new ones, which went into place after the ECU-run engines became available. The T-34 may have had a rock solid diesel powering it, but this series isn't set right after WWII.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: eighth circuit on <08-05-12/2121:51>
There were non-electric diesel engines being built as recently as 20 years ago. I remember working on a bus with a Cummins L10 that had no electronics save to power auxiliary systems. The batteries had been wired wrong and weren't sending out any power. I jump-started the engine but was unable to shut if off, because while it didn't require any electricity to actually run, it required a solenoid to shut off! I'm sure a lot of these engines have been scrapped by now, but a lot of them also ended up in Mexico and other poorer countries.

For that matter, the only thing that a diesel engine actually requires electricity for is the fuel injection, and it would only take a few minor mechanical modifications to make that work. Everything else is for sensors/emissions.

And, why exactly has electricity left the world? I mean if the basic properties of physics have changed, I think we'll have bigger problems than getting our engines to run.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: Black on <08-05-12/2234:50>
I suspect this is very much an ABS scenario.  If electricity has gone, is it all electricity (and then what about our very own biochemistry?) or is it only certain 'types'... which is beyond me how that could work.

So, I suspect that there is a lot more going on then the reletively simple premise 'what happens when there is suddenly no electricty?".

I enjoyed the promos I've seen so far, so I will give it a chance.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-06-12/1609:23>
From all the postings and videos they put out about it, it's just the electricity that's going over wires and what not.

So...yeah.  GLHFWT.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: Curmudgeon on <08-06-12/1731:11>
I saw a promo for this, and I can overlook cars not working for some reason, but the complete lack of guns astounds me. Realistically, either the government has all the ammo, and rules with an iron fist, or else warlords abound.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: Black on <08-06-12/1741:57>
I saw a promo for this, and I can overlook cars not working for some reason, but the complete lack of guns astounds me. Realistically, either the government has all the ammo, and rules with an iron fist, or else warlords abound.

I saw some guns in one of the promos.

It comes down to everyone's personnel level of disbelief.  Mine is quiet high, I am general happy, at least when a show breaks physics, to go with the flow.  But everyone's different.

Eletricity's not completely gone either.  The 'militia' ie the bad guys are after a device which allows it to work, and at least one promo has someone using sad device to power up a computer to send a message.  So, I think that this story may have a bit more going on then what we may have been shown so fat.

But it will Coe down to how good the acting and storyline is...
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-06-12/2111:28>
So, magic.

And general idiocy.  Firearms are not hard to reload.  And are a far sight easier to use than a sword or a crossbow.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: JustADude on <08-06-12/2136:19>
So, magic.

And general idiocy.  Firearms are not hard to reload.  And are a far sight easier to use than a sword or a crossbow.

Ayup; and they're simple technology, too. We had rim-fire cartridges in the 1830s, and center-fire in the 1860s, and the only reason we didn't get them sooner was because nobody had had been smacked upside the head by the idea yet.

Even if computer-controlled precision machining is off the table, you could still crank out WW-2 era weaponry just fine with purely mechanical efforts, unless someone has also destroyed all the schematics and technical documents on the subject, as well as every machinist, engineer, and gunsmith that knows how to build them.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: DarkLloyd on <08-06-12/2349:35>
So, magic.

And general idiocy.  Firearms are not hard to reload.  And are a far sight easier to use than a sword or a crossbow.

Ayup; and they're simple technology, too. We had rim-fire cartridges in the 1830s, and center-fire in the 1860s, and the only reason we didn't get them sooner was because nobody had had been smacked upside the head by the idea yet.

Even if computer-controlled precision machining is off the table, you could still crank out WW-2 era weaponry just fine with purely mechanical efforts, unless someone has also destroyed all the schematics and technical documents on the subject, as well as every machinist, engineer, and gunsmith that knows how to build them.

see the above mentioned starvation deaths....
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: JustADude on <08-07-12/0440:52>
So, magic.

And general idiocy.  Firearms are not hard to reload.  And are a far sight easier to use than a sword or a crossbow.

Ayup; and they're simple technology, too. We had rim-fire cartridges in the 1830s, and center-fire in the 1860s, and the only reason we didn't get them sooner was because nobody had had been smacked upside the head by the idea yet.

Even if computer-controlled precision machining is off the table, you could still crank out WW-2 era weaponry just fine with purely mechanical efforts, unless someone has also destroyed all the schematics and technical documents on the subject, as well as every machinist, engineer, and gunsmith that knows how to build them.

see the above mentioned starvation deaths....

Except for the fact that guys like that are the ones that would be smart enough to go find some Amish, or trade their mechanical skills to a farmer for room and board, or otherwise trade their suddenly-even-more-useful skills to help with their survival. That vastly reduces the odds of them starving to death, compared to the consumer class that only knows how to live inside the system.

Plus, a lot of engineers and such that I know of are in the SCA and other historical recreation groups, which means they have connections to a population pool that all have "low tech" know-how and advanced training with melee weapons.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: DarkLloyd on <08-07-12/0909:07>
So, magic.

And general idiocy.  Firearms are not hard to reload.  And are a far sight easier to use than a sword or a crossbow.

Ayup; and they're simple technology, too. We had rim-fire cartridges in the 1830s, and center-fire in the 1860s, and the only reason we didn't get them sooner was because nobody had had been smacked upside the head by the idea yet.

Even if computer-controlled precision machining is off the table, you could still crank out WW-2 era weaponry just fine with purely mechanical efforts, unless someone has also destroyed all the schematics and technical documents on the subject, as well as every machinist, engineer, and gunsmith that knows how to build them.

see the above mentioned starvation deaths....

Except for the fact that guys like that are the ones that would be smart enough to go find some Amish, or trade their mechanical skills to a farmer for room and board, or otherwise trade their suddenly-even-more-useful skills to help with their survival. That vastly reduces the odds of them starving to death, compared to the consumer class that only knows how to live inside the system.

Plus, a lot of engineers and such that I know of are in the SCA and other historical recreation groups, which means they have connections to a population pool that all have "low tech" know-how and advanced training with melee weapons.

Yeah, so do I. I'm in the SCA.
     And, yes, our kingdom has a "rally point" for apocalyptic events. But that in no way means that any of us are guaranteed to make it  there. From the mass rioting and looting, to thievery and murder that will be going on, to panic induced hysteria that turns even mild mannered neighbors into killers, most people haven't ever really thought out how bad complete anarchy will truly be those first few months.

     And as a side note look around the SCA or other reenactment group, it's not like those groups are all filled with hardy/strong  "live off the land" types. Yes there are those people in the organizations but they are the minority. And a lot of the ones with the knowledge aren't going to be able to use it because of infirmity or handicaps or obesity. Even the fighters, yeah they are big ass guys/gals and are strong, but a lot of them have bad joints now or bad backs, from the fighting.  And evacuating thru a ravenous city that is congested with fleeing/looting people isn't going to allow you to take a big truck full of supplies thru all the traffic without being killed for your stuff. (or if we are still going with the no electricity, a horse cart) So if you are going to escape it'll be on foot or on bikes. If you're lucky on horses and people with disabilities aren't going to make that trek. Plain and simple, if you can't run you can't survive. The one really good thing is that these groups usually have a high number of gun owners in the ranks, with multiple guns. Carrying an arsenal would burden you down too much food is much more valuable at that point, so it's not like these people are going to go all "punisher" on robbers, they won't have the ammo for that. 
This btw only applies to big cities and urbanized areas, rural areas and small towns should fare better, unless they are near enough to a large city to get overflow. So suburbs are done too.

     Sorry. The point to all that is, Yes, there are people that do have the knowledge to survive but Knowing and Doing are two completely different things. You are correct, after the frist few months when the biggest of the die offs are done those people with gunsmithing and machine-smithing skills can write their own ticket. But right now the fraction of people with those skills is really really small, less than a percent of the population. That percent will be even smaller after an event like this.
     It would slow any rebuilding of stuff for a good long while.
 
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-07-12/1349:56>
Right now it's less than 1% of the population.  After the die off it's going to be about 5% to 10% of the population.  Not just because of the winnowing, but because anyone with a functioning frontal lobe will realize that those skills are what's needed to make it in the world now.  So a huge upsurge in physical, practical crafting skills will occur.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: ArkangelWinter on <08-07-12/1408:53>
Or the ones that realize their knowledge = power will say "screw humanity's future, I care about me." Then we have knowledge hoarding and active murder (or at least ostracization) of rival scholars to secure a power base.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: DarkLloyd on <08-07-12/1531:25>
Right now it's less than 1% of the population.  After the die off it's going to be about 5% to 10% of the population.  Not just because of the winnowing, but because anyone with a functioning frontal lobe will realize that those skills are what's needed to make it in the world now.  So a huge upsurge in physical, practical crafting skills will occur.
Very true. Once it all shakes out and people figure out how to live again. We totally agree on this.

Or the ones that realize their knowledge = power will say "screw humanity's future, I care about me." Then we have knowledge hoarding and active murder (or at least ostracization) of rival scholars to secure a power base.
Both will happen more than likley.
And if not the crafters themselves, then the gang-leaders/warlords that keep them alive, will kill off the ones that won't work for them. To secure power for themselves.

Life will break down into anarchy, and from anarchy will come feudalism. Now whether we ever make it back out of feudalism again is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: Smileinbob on <08-07-12/1642:41>
Modern diesels, yes.  Old skool diesels, no.

And where do you expect to see these "old skool" diesels? Mt. St. Helens did a great job of getting rid of a lot of old diesels (the ash got past a lot of filters, trashed a lot of cylinders). Then the various environmental laws made is much more economical to replace old engines with new ones, which went into place after the ECU-run engines became available. The T-34 may have had a rock solid diesel powering it, but this series isn't set right after WWII.

You actually see the "old school" diesels in pretty much every piece of heavy equipment there is.. all the trackhoe/backhoe/dozers tractors anything like that, they don't run the new fuel that truck drivers and on road diesels are required to. Some of them are so basic that with a few gasket and hose changes they could go back to running on peanut and veggie oil like the first diesels did..

If you live in the US next time you stop at a fuel station with several diesel pumps go over and look you should see one marked at agi fuel or red fuel. this is diesel that is ment to go into heavy equipment it has a much higher sulfur content and is not taxed the same as road diesel as it is for use only in farm/heavy equipment.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: PeterSmith on <08-07-12/1747:54>
Don't need to Bob. The last boat my father had was powered by a pair of Cummins 6C83s, they ran the same off-road fuel. As for you assertation that off-road diesels are exempt from the same air quality regulations that on-road engines are, you are mistaken. My sister-in-law works for Cat, she's a design engineer. Specifically, she designs the cooling systems for their medium front-end loaders. As new environmental regulations are published by the EPA she's making changes to her systems to allow the engines to still be legal. One of our friends is getting married in a month, he designed fuel injectors for Cat. My educational background includes a year and change learning how to repair and maintain diesels. From little stationaries up to a Signature 600.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: WSN0W on <08-07-12/1841:27>
While not directly similiar, this show sounds like a poor man's John Ringo 'There Wil Be Dragons' A super hi-tech Sci-fi age that basically has the technology 'turned off' by the powers that be (it makes sense in the story) and the everyman struggle to survive without them.

The main heroes are SCA enthusists that were so bored with the 'press button for anything' that SCA took a huge uptake and people spent their near-immortal lives learning how to do things 'authentically'.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: Smileinbob on <08-07-12/2043:30>
Don't need to Bob. The last boat my father had was powered by a pair of Cummins 6C83s, they ran the same off-road fuel. As for you assertation that off-road diesels are exempt from the same air quality regulations that on-road engines are, you are mistaken. My sister-in-law works for Cat, she's a design engineer. Specifically, she designs the cooling systems for their medium front-end loaders. As new environmental regulations are published by the EPA she's making changes to her systems to allow the engines to still be legal. One of our friends is getting married in a month, he designed fuel injectors for Cat. My educational background includes a year and change learning how to repair and maintain diesels. From little stationaries up to a Signature 600.

Ok.. but you are saying that newer diesel motors will not run with out batteries. But i have seen them do so.. couple of years ago a jobsite i was on was robbed over the weekend and they took batteries out of the equipment along with the other crap they stole... any rate the foreman had a spare on his truck and we used that to fire the stuff up and then him and another guy went to the store and picked up more batteries, we only had problems with one because it needed the battery to run the fuel pump the other stuff ran fine. Now none of that stuff was off the showfloor new by any means but i dont think they were all that old either.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: PeterSmith on <08-07-12/2217:45>
Ok.. but you are saying that newer diesel motors will not run with out batteries.

Actually, I didn't. I said they need electricity to operate the electronics. Engines with attached alternators and generators self-produce that electricity. The purpose of a battery is to store power to start the engine (unless you use a pneumatic starter - think railroad diesel motors), and to stablize the electricity available to the vehicle. If your electrical source is stable enough for the electronics then they won't care where the electricity comes from, just that they have it.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: KarmaInferno on <08-07-12/2345:35>
Well, if whatever effect is taking place in the TV show operates by not allowing electricity to work at all, it wont matter if the electrical source is external or self-generated.


-k
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: PeterSmith on <08-08-12/0951:59>
Well, if whatever effect is taking place in the TV show operates by not allowing electricity to work at all, it wont matter if the electrical source is external or self-generated.

Given that shot of the cars shutting off on the highway, indeed.

But I'm not interested in the show. As was stated by somebody else: "They are way too clean to be living in the wilds."
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-08-12/1101:58>
Well, if whatever effect is taking place in the TV show operates by not allowing electricity to work at all, it wont matter if the electrical source is external or self-generated.

-k
So, crank for a Diesel Engine.  Get a big enough guy, and it can be "Kickstarted".  ;D
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: Critias on <08-10-12/0450:45>
My plan is to wait until I watch at least the pilot, see why (or rather how) they say all the electricity is gone, see if it's a fun show that I might otherwise like, and then worry about how realistic the setting is.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: DarkLloyd on <08-10-12/1032:45>
My plan is to wait until I watch at least the pilot, see why (or rather how) they say all the electricity is gone, see if it's a fun show that I might otherwise like, and then worry about how realistic the setting is.

My guess is that the "Why" won't be revealed in the pilot. That will be the theme of the show tracking down what happened. It'll likely only get revealed by the 2nd or later seasons.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-10-12/2008:41>
My plan is to wait until I watch at least the pilot, see why (or rather how) they say all the electricity is gone, see if it's a fun show that I might otherwise like, and then worry about how realistic the setting is.
My guess is that the "Why" won't be revealed in the pilot. That will be the theme of the show tracking down what happened. It'll likely only get revealed by the 2nd or later seasons.
Unless it's cancelled, because, you know:  Science Fiction doesn't sell!   ::)
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: AJCarrington on <08-11-12/0913:57>
Pretty much my biggest concern with this...will it last?  I was pleasantly surprised to see that Falling Skies got a second season, but not sure how if the corporate expectations will match fan interest.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-11-12/0955:56>
Pretty much my biggest concern with this...will it last?  I was pleasantly surprised to see that Falling Skies got a second season, but not sure how if the corporate expectations will match fan interest.
And they're wondering why Kickstarter is getting so much cash...   ::)
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: DarkLloyd on <08-11-12/1600:00>
Pretty much my biggest concern with this...will it last?  I was pleasantly surprised to see that Falling Skies got a second season, but not sure how if the corporate expectations will match fan interest.

They just got renewed for season 3.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: AJCarrington on <08-12-12/1001:07>
Well there you go...time to start watching... ;D

Didn't know that - thanks!!

AJC
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: PeterSmith on <08-12-12/1015:16>
My guess is that the "Why" won't be revealed in the pilot. That will be the theme of the show tracking down what happened. It'll likely only get revealed by the 2nd or later seasons.

If NBC learned anything from Heroes, then they have to save things for after the first season.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: Bull on <08-12-12/2325:44>
Pretty much my biggest concern with this...will it last?  I was pleasantly surprised to see that Falling Skies got a second season, but not sure how if the corporate expectations will match fan interest.

They just got renewed for season 3.

Being on TNT helps.  TNT has lower expectation, runs shorter seasons, and tends to be more willing to give a show a chance, I think.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-13-12/0912:06>
"The revenues aren't as good as a Reality TV Show."  "Cancel it and replace it with Celebrities making idiots of themselves."
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: WSN0W on <08-13-12/1325:42>
And soon we will be at 'Ow, my balls!' level of programing with our gaint comfy chairs with toliets built into them so we never need get up!
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-13-12/1545:51>
And soon we will be at 'Ow, my balls!' level of programing with our gaint comfy chairs with toliets built into them so we never need get up!
Why do you think I've stopped watching TV?

...

Aside from Shadowbronies insisting I watch little girl cartoons?
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: WSN0W on <08-13-12/1753:51>
The Cult of Bronie
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: CanRay on <08-13-12/1934:55>
The Cult of Bronie
Shadowbronies scare me.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: WSN0W on <08-13-12/2024:48>
While I find MLP to be a rather decently constructed cartoon series (something I truly appreciate) my 4 year old daughter has ruined any chance of me being a Bronie, Shadow, Light, Ninja, or otherwise.
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-14-12/1415:39>
Oh?  And why would that be?
Title: Re: Revolution TV series: An exercise in false dilemmas
Post by: WSN0W on <08-14-12/1450:39>
There comes a point where you are just so inodated with something that it loses its luster. Between the stacks of quick MLP books (and I mean stacks) to the mine field of figures she has to the coloring books...it goes on.

I've nothing against MLP. It has some good messages and I think it has higher quality writing than most of the crap found on TV. And the fact it makes her happy makes me happy. But if my daughter were to lose all interest in MLPs I would never seek it out for myself.