[FasterN8]

I have never seen a character built in which the player "waited until after the first few karma" to get the primary reason to play a particular character type. Having spells and adept powers both is the whole reason to play a Mystic Adept.

It's like waiting until later to buy a Decker his cyber-deck, or waiting until later to buy the Street Sam Pistoleer his first pistol.

There are LOTS of character concepts that require more resources than you get in character creation and his character is just one of them.  If his concept only requires a few power points, then he's not really nerfed that much by his GMs ruling.  Heck, he's even getting a discount on astral perception at only 5 karma. 

Your examples are a bit extreme, since the main schtick of the characters is clearly his spellcasting and conjuring, not his powerpoints.  That's a far cry from the utility a Decker gets from a deck or a pistolier gets from his first pistol.  This guys power points are an accessory to his main schtick.  He has paid for that privilege of getting that accessory and is willing to wait a short while to get it.

I see no terrible flaws in his character concept.  He is playing within his GMs rules and has begun with the end in mind and that just makes good sense.

[All4BigGuns]

I see no terrible flaws in his character concept.  He is playing within his GMs rules and has begun with the end in mind and that just makes good sense.

No, there isn't anything wrong with his character. There IS however something wrong with his GM's ridiculous house rule.

[FasterN8]

Well, I can't really disagree with you there, I was just defending the guy making lemonade with the lemons he was given.

[Gryphynx (Sphynx)]

It's not a ridiculous house rule at all.  When the 6 of us drew up our character concepts (and we are, admittedly, a bit heavy handed on the min-maxxing), 4 of us made Mystic Adepts.  Who would play a Mage or Aspected?  Access and purchase of Power Points far outweighs Astral Projection.  Not so much if the Power Points come much later of course.

And just because you may "want" both Power Points and Spells, doesn't mean you should get them.  We had a guy wanting to be a Techno/Mage or Techno/Adept...  Those aren't options.  Saying "No Mystic Adepts" or as we converted to "No Mystic Adepts with starting Power Points" is a logical and acceptable House Rule.  Nothing ridiculous at all about it.  o.O

[All4BigGuns]

It's not a ridiculous house rule at all.  When the 6 of us drew up our character concepts (and we are, admittedly, a bit heavy handed on the min-maxxing), 4 of us made Mystic Adepts.  Who would play a Mage or Aspected?  Access and purchase of Power Points far outweighs Astral Projection.  Not so much if the Power Points come much later of course.

And just because you may "want" both Power Points and Spells, doesn't mean you should get them.  We had a guy wanting to be a Techno/Mage or Techno/Adept...  Those aren't options.  Saying "No Mystic Adepts" or as we converted to "No Mystic Adepts with starting Power Points" is a logical and acceptable House Rule.  Nothing ridiculous at all about it.  o.O

No, it is quite ridiculous, as it, like the complaints from certain quarters about them under the printed costs, is based entirely around what a munchkin may or may not do. This is not a reason for inclusion of a house rule, nor is it a reason to change something in the system. The same applies to what people are saying in another thread about Aspected.

[Gryphynx (Sphynx)]

Yes it is reason, of course it's reason.  House Rules are very much about controlling what a munchkin may or may not do (and "change something in the system" would be House ruling, it's the same thing).  Quit trying to define the definition and reasoning for House Rules across a global area.  Ridiculous for you doesn't make it ridiculous.  And I still believe it's a fantastic idea globally, though unlike you, I won't try to impress that belief onto others through derogatory insinuations.

Besides, is there anything preventing the Mystic Adept, with this House Rule, from getting Power Points with their 25-50 (or 35-70 even for Prime Runners).  Couldn't you start with 3 (or 4) Power Points via Karma?

[All4BigGuns]

Besides, is there anything preventing the Mystic Adept, with this House Rule, from getting Power Points with their 25-50 (or 35-70 even for Prime Runners).  Couldn't you start with 3 (or 4) Power Points via Karma?

Then you didn't even read the house rule that is being called ridiculous, as the one that posted it clearly stated that the house rule was the Mystic Adepts could not gain any Power Points in character generation (they already have to buy them with karma and the house rule is that they may not purchase them with karma).


Heck, you made the post. Did you forget what you typed?

[Gryphynx (Sphynx)]

You're right, it did... the question was a serious question though, I do not know if Mystic Adepts actually can buy Initiation at char-gen.  The reason I ask is because our GM clearly indicated that the 2 (or 5) karma cost is not allowed, something I didn't elaborate on because I don't know if Initiation is allowed at char-gen or not.  To me, his saying we can't buy power points at 2 karma a piece pretty much means/meant that we couldn't buy Power Points...  I was all ready to make an aspected until I just in the past few minutes, realized that maybe I could Initiate my Adept for power points. 

[All4BigGuns]

You're right, it did... the question was a serious question though, I do not know if Mystic Adepts actually can buy Initiation at char-gen.  The reason I ask is because our GM clearly indicated that the 2 (or 5) karma cost is not allowed, something I didn't elaborate on because I don't know if Initiation is allowed at char-gen or not.  To me, his saying we can't buy power points at 2 karma a piece pretty much means/meant that we couldn't buy Power Points...  I was all ready to make an aspected until I just in the past few minutes, realized that maybe I could Initiate my Adept for power points. 

No, you can't Initiate in character generation. Can't remember where it was said, but I do remember that they clarified that somewhere.

Much as I hate it because the munchkins' activities shouldn't screw over those who don't abuse the frak out of everything they can, they did change the karma cost to 5, and made it so that Initiation for the Power Point 'meta-magic' is the only way to get more. With that house rule, it would be the SIXTH Initiation before a Mystic on Priority A to get what they should be able to attain in Power Points in generation (Fourth Initiation for Priority B Mystics).

[Gryphynx (Sphynx)]

Hmmm, can't find that clarification anywhere.  Just people assuming that because it's not listed in the chargen area, it's not allowed. 

And yeah, I realize it'd be the 6th Initiation.  Considering you're a full-fledge Mage minus Astral Projection, that seems pretty balanced.  if I were my GM, I think my house rule would have likely limited the magic ability (perhaps only sorcery or conjuring) and a choice of either starting out with the ability to buy Power Points, or some starting spells.  I also don't "like" the House Rule, I just think it's fair.  I admit, I took Adept over full Mage purely to get the 3.5PP Initiative boost.  I have no interest in being a Mystic Adept and would just 'play' it like a superior Quickening of a spell.    Now I either have to wait 70 karma later for level 4 initiation, or quicken it 13+karmaboost karma later after I learn the spell. Comes out about the same in the long run, and as a Mystic Adept, I can consider conjuring at least...  Anyhows, I'm afraid I've derailed this thread too much.  I'll start a new thread if anyone wants to continue this run of discussion.

[ZeConster]

Much as I hate it because the munchkins' activities shouldn't screw over those who don't abuse the frak out of everything they can, they did change the karma cost to 5, and made it so that Initiation for the Power Point 'meta-magic' is the only way to get more. With that house rule, it would be the SIXTH Initiation before a Mystic on Priority A to get what they should be able to attain in Power Points in generation (Fourth Initiation for Priority B Mystics).

And if that Priority B Mystic Adept uses 2 special attribute points from their Metatype Priority to boost their starting Magic to 6, it's 6 Initiations again.

[Michael Chandra]

Bull stated it: No initiation/submerging at chargen.

[Gryphynx (Sphynx)]

Michael, unless Bull has a page reference or Errata, he stated an opinion, not a rule. 

[All4BigGuns]

Michael, unless Bull has a page reference or Errata, he stated an opinion, not a rule.

Bull is a developer, so it is in fact rule.

[Gryphynx (Sphynx)]

Not until it's in the Errata it isn't.  The rules are written, not distributed through hear-say on some forum.