Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Sithlis on <03-25-15/1826:20>
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With the looming release of Shadowrun Chronicles I've been thinking about which mega is going to be the Corp that has been promised to fall.
Ares has the the Excalibur PR problems and possibly bug issues.
Horizon screwed up with the video footage against AZ
NeoNet is based in Boston so that's a possibility.
Those are the three that I believe are the most likely.
Anybody else have any ideas, thoughts, speculation?
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Don't forget about Horizon's fiasco with technomancers. And Ares' "experimental" bugs slipping their leash.
Personally, I think it will depend on whether or not Neonet's connection to CFD becomes public knowledge. If so, they are fragged. Otherwise, I'm putting my nuyen on Ares.
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Its probably NeoNET, they're barely holding together as is and have 3 major power players trying to wrestle control of the company. Villiers, Celedyr, and who ever owned Erika.
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Personally I'm hoping for NeoNet. But all the trouble they've already had before (Novatech) makes me afraid it's gonna be Ares. :-[
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Could be a surprise one knocking another Japanocorp out of the top 10.
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I can't believe that the problems Ares has had with one gun and a few bugs is enough to knock them out of the top 10, when Renraku survived the archology shutdown. I'd hate to see them go as well.
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I think it's more than just a few bugs.
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I know, its never just a few bugs. Still, unless Damien Knight truly has been inhabited / became an insect shaman, I doubt any number of bug spirits could cause as much of a setback as Renraku suffered with the archology. And surely they weren't that careless. . .
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Come'on Aries! I hope you survive! Anything that pulls my state out of the Drek can't be all bad!
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I think it's more of the information that Ares was trying to control the bugs thst would do them in. IMHO it's seems that Joe Average has been far more terrified of bugs spirits than of AIs. And honestly there are a lot more bug stories then AI stories in the shadows
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I think Wuxing might be in for a smack down after the stunt they pulled in Manhattan. The Azzies have also put a bit target on their backs with the anti-dragon tech and all the other things they are up to. Wasn't it them who disabled the Thor shots? If that gets out they are done.
I doubt it's going to be a Japana corp, they haven't done anything lately.
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If it's one of the original Big 7, it'll be a transformation - though it's possible that one of the outriders (Evo, Wuxing, Horizon) could take advantage of the chaos and snap up the central 'we can't not be a AAA' corporation and solidify their presence. That, I think, is what I'd do.
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NeoNET would have the most history in falling as JRJ international went from itself, to Fuchi, to Novatech to NeoNET.
That said the shakiest Mega to me has always been Wuxing, since it was only made AAA through a pile of bequests and taking advantage of a number of gifts + whatever geomantic shenanigans they have. Granted they may have seemed to suddenly rise to power due to lots of previous behind the scene manipulation so who knows.
Horizon, the other new kid on the block, seems too proficient with spin to fall from public opinion alone, much like the Azzies.
And again as Wyrm said, the only way any of the 'founding 7' can possibly fall per Corporate Court rules is if they are acquired by another corp. Ares, MCT, Shiawase and ORO/Aztechnology remain in their own hands. BMW --> Saeder-Krupp, Keruba International --> Renraku, JRJ International -->NeoNET have changed hands since 2023, but not often and the last permanent to change hands happened in 2059.
The last Mega to fall happened in 2064 when its CEO was erased by the Matrix Crash.
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... kind of. Fuchi collapsed because it was pushed (per se); Villiers wanted something he controlled entirely. But you can't say that Novatech collapsed any more than you can say that Yamatetsu did; they merged with two other corporations to become NeoNET, 'New Novatech-Erika-Transys'.
I'd personally drop the 10 back to 8 - implode Horizon and have Evo get a hold of one of the original 7's organizational core. By preference, I'd make that Ares - though considering Boston, the smart money's on NeoNET taking the fall, and JRJ International going somewhere else.
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I think Wuxing might be in for a smack down after the stunt they pulled in Manhattan. The Azzies have also put a bit target on their backs with the anti-dragon tech and all the other things they are up to. Wasn't it them who disabled the Thor shots? If that gets out they are done.
I doubt it's going to be a Japana corp, they haven't done anything lately.
No way it's gonna be the Azzies. They are just too entrenched, both in- and out-of-universe.
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Of course it won't be the Azzies, they are basically the super bad guy corp. Besides if you get rid of the Azzies how are we gonna have nightmares about blood mages.
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It'd be tough to destroy Aztechnology anyhow, as it is (for all intents and purposes) Aztlan as well. You'd have to Omega Order the bastard, and have the Court itself purchase ORO/Aztechnology in order to absorb/eliminate it as a permanent member.
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Note these propositions don't necessarily represent my own opinions. They rather are attempts to imagine what the authors may come up with.
Ares Macrotechnology
In setting: insect spirits; massive loss of consumer trust following the Excalibur plot; loss of Pentagon contracts.
For the game: over-used, especially Damien Knight who is one of the most recognizable name in the setting; removal would make room for a new, more righteous American corporation (that some may be wishing: see the FMC).
Aztechnology
In setting: faces hostility from every other prime megacorporation and all immortals.
For the game: over-used as a villain - as long as they're around, Aztlan blood mages will keep on making any other villain looks dull by comparison.
Evo
In setting: non-permanent member of the Corporate Court; internal rivalry between Buttercup, Japanese and Russian faction; attempt to manipulate a Corporate Court representative; possible source of the new nano-evil.
For the game: neither of the Japanese and Russian identity seems to stick, and the Transhumanist one is frowned upon by some.
Horizon
In setting: non-permanent member of the Corporate Court; feud with Aztechnology; faces hostility from technomancers and AI.
For the game: disliked by many for being a rip-off of Google hastily thrown into the setting as a major player with magical opinion-bending powers.
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies
In setting: faces hostility from technomancers and AI.
For the game: not enough different ideas to fully flesh out three different Japanese corporations.
Neonet
In setting: possible source of the new nano-evil.
For the game: heir of a line of failing corps; as a Loremaster, Celedyr is supposed to be a powerhouse on his own, making cohabitation with Richard Villiers awkward.
Renraku Computer Systems
In setting: possible resurgence of its AI issues.
For the game: not enough different ideas to fully flesh out three different Japanese corporations.
Saeder-Krupp
In setting: Lofwyr authority questionned, which already forced him to abandon the Loremaster role, may make S-K assets a target for other dragons and its other enemies.
For the game: The number one corporation with a nigh-invulnerable great dragon at the head is a boring proposition - removing it would make the Whole field more open.
Shiawase
In setting: no reason.
For the game: not enough different ideas to fully flesh out three different Japanese corporations.
Wuxing
In setting: non-permanent member of the Corporate Court.
For the game: not a member of the original cast - those who wants SR to return to its original roots may wish to get rid of it.
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Note these propositions don't necessarily represent my own opinions. They rather are attempts to imagine what the authors may come up with.
Ares Macrotechnology
In setting: insect spirits; massive loss of consumer trust following the Excalibur plot; loss of Pentagon contracts.
For the game: over-used, especially Damien Knight who is one of the ost recognizable name in the setting; removal would make room for a new, more righteous American corporation (that some may be wishing: see the FMC).
I hope not, Ares and Knight are like S-K and Lofwyr - it just wouldn't be the same setting.
Aztechnology
In setting: faces hostility from every other prime megacorporation and all immortals.
For the game: over-used as a villain - as long as they're around, Aztlan blood mages will keep on making any other villain looks dull by comparison.
Overused? Perhaps. But let's face it - they are just too fraggin' BIG to die.
Evo
In setting: non-permanent member of the Corporate Court; internal rivalry between Buttercup, Japanese and Russian faction; attempt to manipulate a Corporate Court representative; possible source of the new nano-evil.
For the game: neither of the Japanese and Russian identity seems to stick, and the Transhumanist one is frowned upon by some.
Horizon
In setting: non-permanent member of the Corporate Court; feud with Aztechnology; faces hostility from technomancers and AI.
For the game: disliked by many for being a rip-off of Google hastily thrown into the setting as the major player with magical opinion-bending powers.
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies
In setting: faces hostility from technomancers and AI.
For the game: not enough different ideas to fully flesh out three different Japanese corporations.
Second most ebil (yeah, I've just had my first encounter with AdventureQuest...) AAA corp. I still keep on wishing that one day their policy towards runners (and, let's face it, EVERYONE ELSE) bites them in the hoop. Say, an expert decker/techno/mage with some sort of terminal condition decides to go out in a blaze of glory.
Neonet
In setting: possible source of the new nano-evil.
For the game: heir of a line of failing corps; as a Loremaster, Celedyr is supposed to be a powerhouse on his own, making cohabitation with Richard Villiers awkward.
Renraku Computer Systems
In setting: possible resurgence of its AI issues.
For the game: not enough different ideas to fully flesh out three different Japanese corporations.
Saeder-Krupp
In setting: Lofwyr authority questionned, which already forced him to abandon the Loremaster role, may make S-K assets a target for other dragons and its other enemies.
For the game: The number one corporation with a nigh-invulnerable great dragon at the head is a boring proposition - removing it would make the Whole field more open.
Not gonna happen. In-universe, Lofwyr and S-K are on par (more or less?) with the Azzies? Out-of-universe, they are even more essential to the setting than Ares and Knight.
Shiawase
In setting: no reason.
For the game: not enough different ideas to fully flesh out three different Japanese corporations.
What about constant their in-fighting?
Wuxing
In setting: non-permanent member of the Corporate Court.
For the game: not a member of the original cast - those who wants SR to return to its original roots may wish to get rid of it.
P.S. No, seriously, who would win in a fight between S-K and the Azzies? ;D
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Fuchi was bigger than Aztech iirc they were #2. NeoNet is also bigger giving SK a run for the top spot, and yet people are saying that they will fall.
I feel Aztech is a cheap corp. In a setting like Shadowrun they don't fit there is no ambiguity with them, they are the bad corp. Smart money is on Wuxing.
I still don't get how one screwed product could hurt Ares like it did. This is a world where people can hack your car and have you delivered to a ghouls den or hijack your cyberware. Where's the backlash against that?
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I'm afraid I have to disagree re: Aztechnology. Yes, to Shadowrunners they have a uniformly bad reputation, but to the average Joe Wage-Slave they are the main producers of food, were protecting the underdog in the Amazonian War, and without them Stuffer Shack would nor exist. Rumours of Blood Magic may exist, but there is no evidence to the general population.
As far as ARES is concerned, I don't know if you are old enough to remember the whole debacle regarding New Coke back in 1985. They put out one bad product and ... whoah! Complaints shot up, sales crashed, and they had to reverse their position very quickly (in fact the whole thing is now taught in Business classes as what not to do). It was bad enough for Coca-Cola with only one major competitor using the problem to enhance their own product. Now imagine that with nine or Triple-As plus several other smaller corps doing their best to knock down ARES and take their position as the number one weapons manufacturer.
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As far as ARES is concerned, I don't know if you are old enough to remember the whole debacle regarding New Coke back in 1985.
[...]
Now imagine that with nine or Triple-As plus several other smaller corps doing their best to knock down ARES and take their position as the number one weapons manufacturer.
While that story certainly is a good lesson for MBA-students, I think it does not have enough parallels to the situation Ares is in. First of all, Coke (the beverage) basically is Coca-Cola. Sure, they own many other beverages and branched out, but by far the most important market for Coca-Cola is beverages and its most pervasive brand is Coke. Also, Coke is a mass product, but its success as a brand depends largely on one thing: Its taste and if that is how the masses expect it to be. While the New Coke desaster might have have had a large effect on customers in North America, no-one really cared in the rest of the world; it wasn't even really introduced in Europe. In addition to that, it is easy to sway public opinion against a brand, especially if a key feature was changed without prior acknowledgement.
Ares on the other hand has two major branches that it dominates world-wide: Aerospace and weapons technology. Basically Ares is 2/3 of all the weapon and aerospace companies of today's North America combined. That's a whole diffrent ballgame. Ares has a couple of lead-products, but it never changed key features of them to a large extent. Guns still shoot, and planes still fly. The product and brand repertoire of Ares is much more diversified than that of Coca-Cola and a large portion of its customers are organisations and professionals. They behave diffrently than public masses. Look at the many acquisition projects western militaries ran in the last decades. There were multiple quite collosal screw-ups or projects that simply failed. Usually that does not kill a company, unless they went all-in on one very huge project. But that's simply bad strategy and will usually lead to a corporate buy-out. It also doesn't happen to a large corporation like Ares over one cheap piece of equipment like an assault rifle. If they blew their new mulit-billion nuyen nuclear carrier program, then they might be in trouble. But a gun? No matter the hightech, if they can basically dominate the gausrifle and laser weapon market, they won't collapse over what would basically be the next Alpha Combat Gun.
Unless of course, they are internally devided, Damien Knight cannot keep the execs in line and some of them are already insect spirits. Then it could get really nasty and the corporation might end like Fuchi, i.e. the Ares-permanent cororate court seat might be lost to another corporation and the rest be downgraded to AA status. But who might that be? Well, before the Crash 2.0 Novatech and Ares both heavily invested into the True America movement in the CAS. Novatecht used to own CAS-based Cavalier Arms, but sold it to Reality, Inc., which also owns Eagle Security and the largest share (25 percent) of Lone Star. On the other hand both the CAS and the UCAS, including President and former general Colloton have been rebuilding their militaries and there have been talks and hints about reunification for some time now, althoug only through backchannels. So maybe someone has been pulling some strings here and we will see a CAS-based security and weapons corporation emerge out off the Ares-buyout and a possible re-emergence of the North American nation states, with the PCC and SN using diffrent methods, but heading the same directions. That would leave profound consequences though. And Damien Knight would still own KE and whatever is left of the rest of Ares, when the insect spirits are ousted.
Pure speculation though. ;)
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I was talking from a purely player perspective.
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I'm afraid I have to disagree re: Aztechnology. Yes, to Shadowrunners they have a uniformly bad reputation, but to the average Joe Wage-Slave they are the main producers of food, were protecting the underdog in the Amazonian War, and without them Stuffer Shack would nor exist. Rumours of Blood Magic may exist, but there is no evidence to the general population.
As far as ARES is concerned, I don't know if you are old enough to remember the whole debacle regarding New Coke back in 1985. They put out one bad product and ... whoah! Complaints shot up, sales crashed, and they had to reverse their position very quickly (in fact the whole thing is now taught in Business classes as what not to do). It was bad enough for Coca-Cola with only one major competitor using the problem to enhance their own product. Now imagine that with nine or Triple-As plus several other smaller corps doing their best to knock down ARES and take their position as the number one weapons manufacturer.
And yet Renraku lost, not one project, but the single largest building in the world which housed numerous projects, including their biggest and greatest project Deus, lost somewhere over 70,000 lives, and they're still in the AAA category.
ETA: And if the German sourcebooks are to be considered official (no idea) we have our winner. SK. . . . .
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ETA: And if the German sourcebooks are to be considered official (no idea) we have our winner. SK. . . . .
April Fool's mean anything to you? Come on, Fifty Shades of Shadowrun? I would buy it, but that's clearly a prank...
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Where would you get that information from? I didn't come across that in any of the sourcebooks so far. And the only information available to German players not available to to English-speakers would be a couple of weapons and cars in an anthology printed last year.
As far as I remember, SK took a few big hits, like Mr Bremen leaving for Spinrad, a AA corporation. Allegedly SK-Prime took several hits, but again, that wouldn't put SK out of its AAA status. They need to loose BMW for that and then some. How would that work? From Number 1 to kicked out of the club seems unrealistic.
Plus: April's Fool... ;)
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Wipes the egg off my face. I knew the other two were fake, I don't know why I bought that one, so easily. Probably because I'd much rather it be SK than Ares. (Or Aztechnology.)
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I'm sorry... :-\ *handshanky*
Well... The quest continues...
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For what it's worth, ever since the announcement, I've been working on putting in some trapdoors to pull corps through if the day comes that they gotta go. The players will be determining which corp bite sthe dust and teh writing team'll make it happen. Most of us have someone we'd *love* to send packing and somebody we'd be all, like, "Not my baby!", but, at the end of the day?
You guys make the call.
*My* job's making sure it makes sense.
So, yeah, it can be one of the guys holding the Golden Ticket from the foundation of the Corporate Court. It could be one of the new kids. It ain't my place to decide. I just gotta make sure that it *can* happen, so, hey.
Door's open, y'all.
(The guys upstairs are willing to play hardball with the setting, if it comes to that. We got rid of *FastJack* for goodness sakes, and during the wrap-up to the Dragon Civil War, every single Great Dragon's head was on the chopping block. Nobody had a get out of jail free card, not even Lofwyr. Some would have taken an *astoundingly* good proposal to knock off, but, ultimately? Nobody's safe. We're all willing to George R.R. Martin anybody if the story calls for it. Seriously.)
Now, that said? I'm all about hearing who you'd *like* to see go down, and why. Feel free to chat. :)
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Hm...seeing Aztechnology fall would be interesting. Being able to run in Mexico would be nice, because as it is, Aztechnology has too tight of a strangle hold on the nation to make it feasible for runners. But at the same time, I really really like them as boogey men. And them having their own nation does help keep them mysterious and more dangerous than the other megas.
I don't know what makes Renraku special anymore. What have they done since their CEO kicked the bucket and they led to the events of Crash 2.0. Seeing them go would help shake up the setting.
I like all the other megas. I'm not in love with Saeder-Krupp, but we need a mega corp with a dragon CEO. That's pretty much what separates Shadowrun from normal cyberpunk. In fact, I'd like more crazy drek like that, like an AI, Sasquatch, or free spirit CEO, or something weird like that.
I like Horizon, because its very modern cyberpunk. Treating people like literal interchangeable cogs, being metrics driven, personality cult, it's wonderful.
Wuxing, I want more about these guys. I like the idea of them being dangerous by altering ley lines with geomancy and such. But I want more.
I also like the internal politics of Shiawase and Ares. Though, Ares has taken a very interesting turn by playing with forces they shouldn't have. But that's awesome. That's so fitting for the setting.
EVO falls under the same reason I like SK, for just being uniquely shadowrun. A mega corp all about making products for trolls, orks and dwarves, with a free spirit on the board. You can't do that in any other setting. Also, they're transhumanist agenda is also very post cyberpunk and helps keep Shadowrun from feeling dated.
I like MCT for their yakuza mega corp gimmick, but I wouldn't be against seeing them go.
So, I'd either vote for Renraku or Aztechnology. Not sure which way I'd lean just yet.
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Honestly, I'd love to see blood in the water and make one of the 'hell, no, it won't go' hit the fan - those three really being Ares, Aztechnology, and Saeder-Krupp. My ideal scenario (as it were) would be something along these lines ...
Horizon, having screwed up against Aztechnology, tries to get in bed with Ares. The Insect Overlords over at Knight's House get into it with the Horizon Alien Group Mind-Meld and, because they've both got a hate-on for Aztechnology, wind up a) pissing off AZT but b) allow themselves to become financially vunlerable. Though they try to use each other as white knights when subsidiaries and departments come under attack (because blood in the water means feeding frenzy by everyone, not just Aztechnology), there's too much pressure from too many directions.
Results:
- Both Horizon and Ares collapse; the Big 10 are back to the Big 8.
Yamatetsu Evo manages to snap up the correct corporate skeleton, seizing Ares' permanent seat. Despite this triumph (which is, when all is said and done, their real goal in going after the two), they are not the 'big winners' in all this.- No, Aztechnology isn't a big winner either. Ideally, though they may grab some interesting slices - some big chunks of AresSpace, for example - they get several knives in their collective back as well, losing out on any number of opportunities - or even losing major data. Just as an example, all formulae and research notes to Blue-227 might vanish - quite possibly due to coordination between certain corporate Great Dragons...
- For my money, the big winner would (should) be NeoNET. I can see a desperate attempt by
David Gavilan Damien Knight in struggling to hold on to his company, trying to pull off another Nanosecond Buyout by sharking one of his 'hometown competitors', but getting jammed up by a combination of Celedyr, the Villiers clan, and others looking for just a picosecond's worth of vulnerability. This time, instead of him owning a huge chunk of Ares, after 63 seconds he's lost the key Ares corporate identity to Evo and - though he's become a major stockholder in Erika (the 'E' in NeoNET) - Ares as a corporation is dead in the water. So he saves what he can by fire-sales on some parts, bolstering core areas, and winds up as the killer third partner (so to speak) in NeoNET, resulting in a new corporate triumvirate. - Horizon sucks hind teat. Actually, it gets shredded by the sharks. The Alien Mind Meld is greased with extreme prejudice. (I dislike Horizon almost as much as I hated CATCo.)
- Just a thought I had - maybe certain subsidiaries of Horizon and Ares manage to spin themselves clear. KE would be interesting as 'its own man', so to speak, especially if Soaring-Owl had cut a deal with someone to gain control of it.
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So, I'd either vote for Renraku or Aztechnology. Not sure which way I'd lean just yet.
Well, I agree with most of your list and for the same reasons. Shadowrun always changed with the real world changing, too. So maybe it's time for a corporation from Amazonia emerging from the ashes of a fallen Aztech? That would make sense an reallign SR with the real world. It would also rob SR of an iconic villain corporation and create an enormous gap. A gap that would have to be filled also geographically, since the PCC, CAS and most likely Amazonia and maybe even some Carribean states would expand into the void a calloapsing Aztech (and Aztlan?) would leave.
Renraku is diffrent though. They used to be the number 1 AI corporation and data systems managment megacorp. I don't know about data system managment in 2075, but to me it seems other corporations do that very succesfull these days (e.g NeoNet). The AI part however is firmly out of Renraku's hands now and that leaves the corporation with hardly any profile. I don't think they should vanish completely, but a downgrade seems no unlikely. The heyday of Japanese corporations is over anyway. Shiawase is still the classic zaibatsu and MCT is, too (with that Yakuza angle), but Yamatetsu has left Japan for good and rebranded itself for some time now. And Japan has lost much of its power on a national level, so again the SR-setting follows revelopments of the real world since the inception of the game. Again, a corporation from South America, India or even another one from North America would make perfect sense. The two remaining Japanese corporations would still represent that part of SR-culture quite well. Though a true revival of the samurai ethos as back in the 1990s would be great to see. I don't know where the Permanent Seven seat would go though. Possibly a buy-out by Horizon, since they seem to be the big AI-guys now.
Ares also seems a likely candidate to me. Internal strife and bug spirits are a huge problem for any corporation. I also think however, that for a predominantly North American setting (from a real world point of view; that's simply where many players live and the authors, too) having two AAA corporations come from the UCAS might be too much. The UCAS are supposed to be weak and SR is supposed to play in Seattle. But with Boston, Detroit and New York being hotbeds of AAA-politics it seems less and less logical why Seattle should be such an important city. Especially now, since Los Angeles has its own AAA. So, why not diversify the setting even more and put one AAA to the CAS; or maybe have a CAS megacorporation buy-out one of the Permanent Seven? Like Ares. Ares Space is sitting in Houston anyway and if a renegade Ares exec wants to screw Damien Knight and teams up with Reality Inc. (owning Eagle Security), plus Lone Star plus Cavalier Arms, they could buy-out the Permanent Seven seat of former Ares Industries. That would still leave Ares Macrotechnologies a huge corporation, but without its space assets and its AAA rating, it would be basically be KE plus Ares Arms plus Ares Global Entertainment. A weapons company linked to an end user corporation and a news/PR firm. Very scary, very villainy as well.
These would be my three choices. In fact I would absolutely not mind for Ares and Renraku to go away, but one corporation take the place of Ares for a new Big Nine. After all, an odd number makes decisions much easier on court level.
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For what it's worth, ever since the announcement, I've been working on putting in some trapdoors to pull corps through if the day comes that they gotta go. The players will be determining which corp bite sthe dust and teh writing team'll make it happen. Most of us have someone we'd *love* to send packing and somebody we'd be all, like, "Not my baby!", but, at the end of the day?
You guys make the call.
*My* job's making sure it makes sense.
So, yeah, it can be one of the guys holding the Golden Ticket from the foundation of the Corporate Court. It could be one of the new kids. It ain't my place to decide. I just gotta make sure that it *can* happen, so, hey.
Door's open, y'all.
(The guys upstairs are willing to play hardball with the setting, if it comes to that. We got rid of *FastJack* for goodness sakes, and during the wrap-up to the Dragon Civil War, every single Great Dragon's head was on the chopping block. Nobody had a get out of jail free card, not even Lofwyr. Some would have taken an *astoundingly* good proposal to knock off, but, ultimately? Nobody's safe. We're all willing to George R.R. Martin anybody if the story calls for it. Seriously.)
Now, that said? I'm all about hearing who you'd *like* to see go down, and why. Feel free to chat. :)
Oh, man that is SO tempting.
Ok, let's see:
NeoNET would make most sense for me, given recent developments. But let's take a look at other (un)lucky contestants, shall we?
Ares would be just as good, for the same reasons as NeoNET, although personally, I really don't wanna see them go.
Azzies DO make an excellent boogeyman. Plus, what's gonna happen with all those Horror-worshipping blood mages! Were would they go? What would they do with themselves? Just think, some poor psycho-cultist, freezing under a bridge, having to scrounge for soybars... :'(
MCT would have it coming, but I think it might be hard to engineer - it's not like they got a serious beatdown recently. Besides, out-of-universe, we need them - they are the kind of megacorp people love to hate. That being said, a serious beatdown (or at least a good ol' fashioned humiliation conga) should be in order.
Finally, Renraku - they are just kind of there, doing... well, nothing. I think it's time for spring cleaning.
So, my vote is for NeoNET or Renraku. Maybe with one assimilating the other...?
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I'm still hoping for some more space-related source material. Surely, getting out of the Earth's biosphere doesn't free one from all the 6th World's issues, but it's going to take some effort to make the non-terrestrial part of the setting playable for the awakened.
Sadly, though, if anything goes wrong out in the black, Ares is probably going to take it in the chops -- again -- and probably in a way that isn't easy to come back from.
Who is it that has boots on Mars, though? Hmm. EVO, it seems. I'm not sure what to think will happen if they make First Contact (if they haven't already), although it would probably be better than having Ares use it as an opportunity to test their latest space weaponry, in hopes of being Earth's champions... possibly regardless of whatever EVO does.
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I'd like to see one of the three japanese corps go down. I always considered three too much to fleshen out. From where I stand MCT would make the best candidate.
Their involvement with the Yakuza would provide the opportunity for many great scenarios to sell to us SR fans: Be it the struggle itself or the aftermath of the fall when the Yabos will be on a frenzy to get back at someone, buy into a new rising corp or taking bits off established ones to get a foothold.
Of course, Renraku took a beating for a while now, making it a viable candidate, too. But it would be rather boring, I think. And boring does not sell good! In the end that is what this is about: shake things up in a way that creates good products to sell to us.
The two corps that I don't see going down in any plausible way are Aztech and S-K. Both are too entrenched within several nations.
Aztechnology is a synonym for Aztlan, they primed the name, invented the whole rebranding and new aztech culture. Wherever on the globe they suffer a loss, they could just squeeze out of the nation and come back swinging. Even a corporate mandate won't change the fact. There is no political opposition, no alternative in Aztlan. Look at modern attempts to overthrow governments. And Aztlan is not a small country, thanks to Aztech ressources its basically a superpower.
In a way, a combined corporate effort against Aztech would make them even more dangerous and stronger: They would just give up any pretense of a divide between Aztech the corporate entity and Aztlan the independent nation. And a superpower backed into a corner is a dangerous creature.
Since the Council is ruled by need of (relative) global stability to create profits, they would not risk such a scenario in any way.
Similar reasons are true for S-K. They haven't brain-washed Europe like the Azzies did, but S-K simply has too much investment and political money spend for too long.
Threatening Lofwyr's corp would mean he might throw half (and more) of Europe into the worst crisis the continent has ever seen.
That danger itself - however willing the dragon might be - would make every politician flinch and bend over.
So even if the Corporate Council should magically - out of thin air - decide to oust S-K, they would just show them the finger and continue the same way. People don't need a "corporate council approved" sigil on their products. But they do need jobs and stability.
This is the beauty of S-K's master: He has slowly sunk his claws into the continent and ensured that his power base will not change.
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Three? Try five. Out of eight.
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Three? Try five. Out of eight.
Which ones do you refer to?
Renraku, Shiawase and Mitsuhama, those three Japanocorps I know.
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Three? Try five. Out of eight.
Which ones do you refer to?
Renraku, Shiawase and Mitsuhama, those three Japanocorps I know.
In the Days of Olde, there was the Big EIght, which consisted of:
Ares Macrotechnology (UCAS)
Aztechnology (Aztlan)
Saeder-Krupp (Germany)
And then five, count 'em five, JapanaCorps:
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies
Renraku
Shiawase
Fuchi
Yamatetsu
Fuchi died, and its assets were split between North America --> Novatech (Richard Villers), Europe --> Shiawase (Korin Yamana), and Asia ---> Renraku (Shikei Nakatomi)
Yamatetsu jumped to Russia and changed shape into Evo.
But when five of teh Big Eight were Japanese, the influence was ENORMOUS.
The Big Ten having only *three* Japanacorps broke their stranglehold on culture that they had from around 2030 until 2060, with the big Earthquakes from Haley's Comet just screwing them over hugely in '61. It took them over a decade to dig out, but they're starting a big comeback now. Renraku's facelift seems to have mostly gone unnoticed, but that's kinda how they play it now, so, it's all good.
Villers had to give up power by doing an IPO for Novatech to save it, turning into NeoNET (which he hates), Yamana tried to revolutionize SHiawase but got outed in a power struggle when the corporation re-aligned under a new CEO and Chairman of teh Board (Shiawase is now the most unified that it's been since the ate 40's!), and Renraku's CEO is nothing more than CHairman of teh Board Nakatomi's puppet.
They're all doing *something*, but it's not easy to see what at times.
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And in any case, I don't feel that 'there isn't enough to fill out three Japanacorps'. All three of them essentially represent something different, a core difference, in Japanese culture - which still has a pretty heavy influence on the genre. Shiawase represents its history, tradition, the core cultural 'Japanese identity' and the purity of it; they are the stolid samurai-and-emperor traditionalists. Renraku represents the ultra-accelerated future - a future within which the Japanese people do not lose their cultural identity; they are the cybersamurai, the ultra-robot jocks, the computer cowboys. MCT represents the uncertain and shifting struggle of the (nominally) lower-caste sorts, the criminals, the middle-class, the peasant trying to get by without getting squashed while also playing a trick on 'the Man'.
While other corporations represent such things as well - NeoNET represents a hyperaccelerated tech curve, Aztechnology a brash in-your-face cultural identity, Evo a 'look how the future can change us' - Shadowrun began with a huge Japanese influence, and it will always have a big chunk of that there - or at least should. Who knows, MCT could find it needs to expand and dominate the Indian sub-continent, and it'll become Maharaja Consumer Technologies ...
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@ Wakshaani:
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I was aware about the earlier corps coming from Japan (playing SR since 2nd edition), but did not know about all the background.
@ Wyrm Ouroboros
I respect your opinion, yet still I disagree.
There is a term called "japanocorp" to show there are many AAAs coming from Japan. The ideals you attributed to the corps are nice, but most likely irrelevant on a global scale.
And I argue not from an ingame perspective, but from a player's.
They could also easily be adopted by the remaining two corporations if one would fall. It could also be a good opportunity to revitalise a stronger japanese influence on other corporations, because all AAAs would hurry to eat up the juciy pieces of a dying Mega.
Thats why I think the setting can afford to lose one of the three japanese corps. It might even be better off with some change and fresh wind coming from Japan.
And let's not forget that a "fall" does not necessarily mean the essence of the corp would vanish. It could also just imply a transformation like Fuchi->Novatech->NeoNet did.
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In fact I would absolutely not mind for Ares and Renraku to go away, but one corporation take the place of Ares for a new Big Nine. After all, an odd number makes decisions much easier on court level.
As far as the books went so far, there are no situation where the Corporate Court goes "One corp, one vote".
- Regular court decisions are taken by a college of thirteen justices. Some of the prime megacorporations have more than one justice (MCT had as much as three at some point), either because they have enough clout at the time of the election to bargain with the other, or because they were so weak at that time the other corporations considered it the less dangerous option.
- The Corporate Court Crisis Coordination Committee ("C5") features six justices rotating among the thirteen).
- The justice election itself is described has having a "complex weighted vote system," where each of the prime megacorporations gets a number of vote based on obscure formulas that account for assets, revenues, and whatever. According to the short story at the beginning of Blood in the Boardroom, the votes are also split between a number of representatives (the plot being about Lofwyr asking Jean-Claude Priault to publicly opposes the election of Wuxing candidate, while ordering several of S-K other representatives to vote for it nonetheless).
And in any case, I don't feel that 'there isn't enough to fill out three Japanacorps'. All three of them essentially represent something different, a core difference, in Japanese culture - which still has a pretty heavy influence on the genre. Shiawase represents its history, tradition, the core cultural 'Japanese identity' and the purity of it; they are the stolid samurai-and-emperor traditionalists. Renraku represents the ultra-accelerated future - a future within which the Japanese people do not lose their cultural identity; they are the cybersamurai, the ultra-robot jocks, the computer cowboys. MCT represents the uncertain and shifting struggle of the (nominally) lower-caste sorts, the criminals, the middle-class, the peasant trying to get by without getting squashed while also playing a trick on 'the Man'.
Shiawase has its ties in traditional medieval Japan. It's more than the Shiawase family. It is the Shiawase clan. They take care of the elderly ("future care beyond what a typical corporate wage slave normally expects" was the original description of the corporation in Seattle Sourcebook), worships kami and ancestors ghosts.
As its core, Shiawase is a rural corporation, with major investments in agriculture and power plants. Although by no mean a small city, the headquarters' location in Osaka, instead of the capital Tokyo (or the former imperial capital Kyoto), can be thought off as a tribute to this "provincial" identity.
MCT is, as every one knows, related to the Yakuza. Which means much more than just some dirty money. Just as everything in Japan, Yakuza occupy a well-defined social position: their business is necessary. When Shiawase is saying "the family needs you", MCT is saying "the society needs us". Yakuza origins goes back to peddlers and dockers. That is, people on the roads and in the ports, who were outsiders to that rural society of clans that Shiawase represents, and came to prominence later in the Meiji era, in the 19th and early 20th century. Unlike Shiawase or Renraku, MCT does not maintain any samurai-themed units - the closest they have a samurai-styled drones, which is in itself telling of how much consideration they give to the concept (also, when I play with people savvy enough on Japanese culture, I always give MCT and Yakuza henchmen only wakizashi and no katana, which was strictly a samurai weapon).
Renraku Computer Systems had been at some point depicted not as a Japanese corporation, but rather as a corporation owned by Japanese shareholders, which is slightly different. Renraku is about Japanese money taking over the world, rather than Japanese culture. It originally was an European corporation, Keruba International, that was taken over by Japanese investors in 2029, because that's where the money was in 2029, and they relocated the headquarters and established R&D centers in Chiba (again, not Tokyo) because that was where the SOTA was being developed by other corps in the 2030ies (because it is a requirement of the cyberpunk genre).
Renraku Asia did become the main division by 2040, while the European division was slowly falling apart because of internal corruption. It took almost a decade for the Japanese management to realize and deal with the practices the European managers were carrying out (which they root out for a part by simply selling the most corrupt subsidiaries). But by 2050, it was Renraku Americas who was taking the lead (headed by one Sherman Huang, not even a Japanese). And by 2057, the head of Renraku network security and his best engineers were still Eastern European hackers, as mentioned in Black Madonna.
Sure, Renraku does have the Red Samurai. They were originally a ceremonial unit with shiny armors and SOTA weapons and no actual training to use it (not exactly a tribute to the Bushido - I'm sure they did even know how to write poetry). They slowly moved into being one of the most elite units in the setting, but with strict rules on race and ethnicity. They are actually completely cut off from, like, 90% of Renraku. Highly-skilled guards from European, American or even Indian or Chinese division are never going to join the Red Sams (the Seattle Sourcebook mentions most of the arcology guards are actually trained in the Renraku Guard Academy in Seoul). The Red Samurais may be a symbol (especially to the Shadowrunners who encounter them) but they are the opposite of what makes a corporate culture - from a Renraku employee's point of view, the Red Sams belong to the management, not the corporation as a whole.
Then there was Fuchi Industrial Electronics (the alliance with the West), Yamatetsu (the colonization of Asia, more specifically the Philippines and Eastern Russia, wavering between cooperation and domination), Yakashima (buy-restructure-sell-repeat...), Monobe (buy whatever company is for sale anywhere in the world), the Pacific Rim Bank & Financial Services Corporation (the godfather of the Japanacorps: why ask for AAA rating when there are several of them beholden to you ?)... Which still leave Daiatsu, Komatsu, Pacific Rim Communications, Sony and Yokogawa to flesh out beyond the little that was put in Shadows of Asia.
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Renraku's doing a lot to shed the *image* of a Japanese company while still keeping the *structure* of one. Their new focus on teh service industry, for instance, uses local people for the 'footsoldiers' who report to local-ish managers who, in turn, report to Asian higher-ups. Thus, they companies *look* local but aren't. They're pitching a lifestyle now, and it's a self-supporting loop.
For example, when you get up in the morning, you hear news from the Renraku clock radio (Made by some subsidiary), which is set to a Renraku channel (With generic WKIZ-type call letters), hop into your Renraku car (Branded something else), use GridGuide (tm) (Now owned by Renraku) to go to work. Afterwards, you swing by a Renraku-owned place for a haircut, read some Renraku magazines that talk about Renraku products and gossip about stars who perform in Renraku media, and so on.
They quietly move in and take over your life, one little piece at a time, while using their massive database to know what you want before you want it. They then provide it, and have a smiling face offer it to you while thanking you for your business.
They also have a new security company entering the world stage (Mor eon that later!), and, in generl, are quite happy to let other Megacorps stand out there and get bad media attention while they quietly move into one area after another. They're also playing a dangerous game, switching between MCT and Shiawase as allies, playing both of the more powerful corps against one another while helping both (But mainly themselves). In short, they're the masters of the puppet show, keeping your eyes over HERE while they actually do stuff over THERE.
If I get to do a certain thing with Shiawase dow the road, this'll be even more clear in the future.
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I'm still hoping for some more space-related source material. Surely, getting out of the Earth's biosphere doesn't free one from all the 6th World's issues, but it's going to take some effort to make the non-terrestrial part of the setting playable for the awakened.
One thought on this, as an aside, is that it could be accomplished by stipulating that there IS mana beyond Earth's reach, but that it requires alignment to it to make use of (or even perceive), and that the interactions between terrestrial mana and non-terrestrial mana (perhaps) play some part in the ebbs, voids, warps and other phenomena mentioned in Street Grimoire.
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Isn't mana tied to the or in fact any life? Then there could be life forming on diffrent planets, when sufficient amounts of life are present.
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I think mana requires a certain saturation of life to exist.
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I remeber reading that space stations develop a mana sphere after a while. Not sure how many people are neccesary for that.
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It's a matter for ongoing experimentation by pretty much every corporation with a presence on a space station.
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As of Run & Gun, the following is known about magic in space:
Due to the lack of mana in space, spellcasting becomes challenging away from the surface of Earth. Element-based spells do not function in a vacuum, so they cannot be cast across empty space. Space locations function as astral voids, meaning spellcasters receive a dice pool penalty when they attempt any test that uses their Magic attribute. The penalty ranges from –8 (for places with decent concentrations of life for non-Earth locations, such as the Moon or a large space station) to –18 (for deep space). Note that the corps have noticed this difference and are encouraged by the fact that at least some extension of mana into space is possible. They are hard at work looking for ways to enhance magical abilities away from Earth, but the amount of severely impaired mages they keep sending back to the surface indicated their success is mixed at best.
If a large space station is -8, and deep space is -18, there's a decent chance that a small space station would be somewhere around the -13 mark. There's very little information in the sourcebooks regarding how many people inhabit each station, or any sort of note about whether they add significant amounts of flora and/or fauna, but with a lot of space exploration being dedicated to research I wouldn't discount the possibilities of either.
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Renraku's doing a lot to shed the *image* of a Japanese company while still keeping the *structure* of one. Their new focus on teh service industry, for instance, uses local people for the 'footsoldiers' who report to local-ish managers who, in turn, report to Asian higher-ups. Thus, they companies *look* local but aren't.
The three Japanacorps who had regional structures were Renraku Computer Systems, Fuchi Industrial Electronics and Yamatetsu (which is also the structure of Aztechnology and Saeder-Krupp). That is, the three corporations who were a mix of Japanese and other nationalities. The "pure" Japanese corporations, Shiawase and MCT (as well as Sony, Yakashima, Yokogawa...) have sectoral structures.
Also, the increased number of Japanese managers at the top-level is quite recent and only dates back to 2067-2068, as Orito Sasaki replaced Sherman Huang at Renraku America and Noriko Sakai replaced Lucy Don at Renraku Australasia, while Karl Stadt remains the head of Renraku Europa.
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What's a sectoral structure please?
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That a megacorporation structures itself not primarily by the region or countries it operates in, but by the industrial/economic sectors each division handles. E.g. the AAA corporation Renraku is strutured into multiple AA division including a North America, a Europe division etc. Shiawase AAA on the other hand is structured into Shiawase Atomics/Energy, Shiawase Envirotech etc. Each division thus handles either a whole region, but is heavily diversified itself, or it can focus economically on a certain branch (e.g. aerospace technology), but is spread over the whole world.
Most AA-divisions of AAA megacorporations handle their own divisions or subsidiaries, though, which allows them to buy back some of the flexibility lost by the paradigmatical division of the AAA corporation. But the main paradigm of division tells you a lot about hierarchy and how the corporation defines itself.
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I don't suppose anyone has (or wants to) take a stab at making an updated set of corporate profiles (a la Corporate Shadowfiles, p. 118) for the 2070s' batch of megas?
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I imagine that's likely to be in the works at some point or another. Out of five editions, I consider three (2nd, 3rd, and 4th) to be 'complete', and all three of them had a full-on corporate sourcebook.
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Didn't Aztech get rid of the blood mages a while back? Maybe after they tried to take over the company (also, the world)?
They're cheap and easy bad guys, which makes them boring. Their major strength to the game is the culture, but I'm not sure how much you can focus on the pyramids and blood sports without them getting overplayed. I'd vote for them getting their nose bloodied and shedding some of the negatives to see if it makes them multidimensional.
To be fair, before Wakshaani's description, I still thought of Renraku as the corp that had an AI get out of hand many years ago. It might take some doing to change player perceptions. The history of the game is a big strength, but it can stagnate the game as well.
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That was the Blood Mage Gestalt, and they were kicked out in... Actually, I don't remember. Sometime between 2055 and 2064? Anyway, they are back. These days they call themselves "The Smoking Mirror".
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what about a fully blown out war?
I remember reading about the Omega Protocols being stolen. Any chance a Mega feels in position for world dominance?
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Thanks.
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what about a fully blown out war?
I remember reading about the Omega Protocols being stolen. Any chance a Mega feels in position for world dominance?
That ... honestly sounds like a comic-book thing. In Shadowrun there is such a thing as an Omega order, which permits full-out economic and physical war against a corporation without repercussion. They are only issued (or issueable) by the Corporate Court; this is one of the things that the Court was originally created for, to prevent the chances of full-blown war among the AAA corporations. (The Ensenada Strike was a Corporate Court 'Omega order' warning shot.) From what I remember, one particular corporation can be made the Court's executor, usually a AA or AAA that was recently and directly harmed by the company to be so 'executed'; the Court also has the option to simply declare open season. To my uncertain knowledge it's only ever happened once, though I can't remember who was the target, who the executor.
So while 'protocols' might be stolen, it isn't going to change anything, and no single megacorporation, or even a minority subset of the Big 10, is going to be able to wage all-out war against the rest in order to dominate the world. Too much collateral damage, and who the hell would you sell your products to? Remember, the corps are about making money, not about blowing shit up - unless the latter is an advertisement for the former. ;)
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Didn't Aztech get rid of the blood mages a while back? Maybe after they tried to take over the company (also, the world)?
They're cheap and easy bad guys, which makes them boring. Their major strength to the game is the culture, but I'm not sure how much you can focus on the pyramids and blood sports without them getting overplayed. I'd vote for them getting their nose bloodied and shedding some of the negatives to see if it makes them multidimensional.
To be fair, before Wakshaani's description, I still thought of Renraku as the corp that had an AI get out of hand many years ago. It might take some doing to change player perceptions. The history of the game is a big strength, but it can stagnate the game as well.
Luckily for Renraku, Crash 2.0 wasn't long after thier "little incident", and now, 15 years later, most people just sorta assume that it was all tied together.
Because people hate the past. :)
Renraku's current ad campaign focuses on teh human side of things (And, yeah, human. And pretty humans at that. No uggos on teh corporate payroll! Hie thee to a Renraku-backed clinic for some bio-upgrades, young man!) with the service industry. Anytime you contact a Renraku branch, you get a real live person on the comm, you meet real people in the store, and, in general, it's fleshy city everywhere you turn. Computers and droids are serving people and are completely- harmless.
They make sure of it.
Renraku pampers the HECK out of people and uses their massive database to make sure that everything you like is available for purchase every time you turn around. WIth predictive analysis, they even provide you things before you even know you need them.
Renraku: How may we serve you?
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The Azzies were the target of the Omega order. Also it was them who stole the thor shot protocols trying to or succeeding to frame another corp (I want to say Horizon ) depending on how well the players did. I'll try to remember to dig up that adventure.
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I don't remember the Azzies being the target of an Omega Order (if we accept that Enseñada was a shot across the bow and not a proper Omega Order), but there may be a mod out there I've forgotten. QZE was a target of an Omega Order in the fallout over Yamatetsu's ascent to AAA status. And that's why this is the first time you've ever heard of QZE ;)
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Didn't Aztech get rid of the blood mages a while back? Maybe after they tried to take over the company (also, the world)?
It was Corporate Download which described Aztechnology as almost purged from the blood mages following the events of the Dragonheart trilogy and the failure of "Mister Darke", with a few remaining hiding from the management. But it went like no one really took notice and most gamemasters and players kept the connection alive because at that point they were way too much established and even entrenched as generic villains.
Street Magic described blood magic as common thing in Aztlan, and Corporate Guide restored the blood mages faction within Aztechnology, introducing for the first time the "Smoking Mirror" name. However, that was set to happen way earlier had Shadows of Latin America been released, from which the text featured in Corporate Guide was actually taken.
That was the Blood Mage Gestalt, and they were kicked out in... Actually, I don't remember. Sometime between 2055 and 2064? Anyway, they are back. These days they call themselves "The Smoking Mirror".
The Gestalt was a specific group of Aztlaner blood mages, described in Threats, who used specific ritual magic. If anything, they rather looked like they were a tool for the actual blood mages' faction leaders.
The front leader, "Mister Darke" aka "Oscuro" was supposedly killed at the end of the Dragonheart trilogy in 2057 or 2058. He possibly was one named Geraldo Solis, which would mean he survived (Loose Alliances also introduced another survivor, Abd El-Hameed Hassani, a Panamese of Lybian ascent, who moved to become the head of the Apep Consortium).
In Shadowrun there is such a thing as an Omega order, which permits full-out economic and physical war against a corporation without repercussion. They are only issued (or issueable) by the Corporate Court; this is one of the things that the Court was originally created for, to prevent the chances of full-blown war among the AAA corporations. (The Ensenada Strike was a Corporate Court 'Omega order' warning shot.) From what I remember, one particular corporation can be made the Court's executor, usually a AA or AAA that was recently and directly harmed by the company to be so 'executed'; the Court also has the option to simply declare open season.
So while 'protocols' might be stolen, it isn't going to change anything, and no single megacorporation, or even a minority subset of the Big 10, is going to be able to wage all-out war against the rest in order to dominate the world. Too much collateral damage, and who the hell would you sell your products to? Remember, the corps are about making money, not about blowing shit up - unless the latter is an advertisement for the former. ;)
In Corporate Shadowfiles, the Omega Order was described as the highest possible level of sanction, an unlimited mandate that allowed every megacorporation (not just those represented on the court) to seize or destroy any assets of the offending corporation. So the Omega Order was specifically a case where the court wasn't designating any executor for its mandate or limiting the level of damages to be delivered.
Corporate Guide presents conflicting views on what Omega Orders are. To the best of my understanding, the main text considers there is an Omega Order every time a sanction is carried out by one or several corporations who were not part of the original dispute. It even labels as an Omega Order the hit on Art Dankwalther (who was a physical person, not a corporation).
It's also Corporate Guide who first mentions "Omega protocols" as emergency plans that give the court a short track to activate a number of megacorporate military assets. So the protocols may give key intelligence on each of the megacorporation strategic assets, including their location and capabilities.
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I would love to see S-K go under the bus, something like Lofwyer pulls an arrogant and underestimates a dozen of his competitors and subsidiaries tenacity and the whole company balkanizes/get snapped up. He`s left standing on a large chunk of a crumbling cliff desperately trying to snap up the pieces falling away from him. Zeta Impchem with their stern hold on eastern europe and the middle east finally wins the head butting competition and eats up what it can. I`d love to see a new company crop up out of the middle east with indian and african influence, a golden age of islam middle eastern company that`d just been biding their time till the next big schism, then boom, all those decades of research, mining projects, resource rich land grabs pay off. S-K is nothing but a heap of double and single As trying to ruffle feathers and inch their way up the economic truss as the tide rolls in slowling melting them away. Cause nothing spells boring like an invulnerable entity who you cant even fight against.
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I would love to see S-K go under the bus, something like Lofwyer pulls an arrogant and underestimates a dozen of his competitors and subsidiaries tenacity and the whole company balkanizes/get snapped up. He`s left standing on a large chunk of a crumbling cliff desperately trying to snap up the pieces falling away from him. Zeta Impchem with their stern hold on eastern europe and the middle east finally wins the head butting competition and eats up what it can. I`d love to see a new company crop up out of the middle east with indian and african influence, a golden age of islam middle eastern company that`d just been biding their time till the next big schism, then boom, all those decades of research, mining projects, resource rich land grabs pay off. S-K is nothing but a heap of double and single As trying to ruffle feathers and inch their way up the economic truss as the tide rolls in slowling melting them away. Cause nothing spells boring like an invulnerable entity who you cant even fight against.
Don't be silly. Runners can't fight any of the mega's leaders unless the GM waves plausibility out of the window. Runners could and did stand against some of the plans the AAAs tried to pull of and SK was not an exception. For runners it never mattered if a corp was lead by a single entity or a group.
The idea that SK can and will fall to violence is insane. The corp has access to orbital weaponry, nukes, employs an army on top of all the magical assets (same is true for many AAAs) and has a very aggressive intelligence agency. Violence is just not an option. SK is too entrenched in Europe to get rid of easily and it's not weak or vulnerable right now to make any kind of economical move plausible.
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Indeed. Outright violence is not going to end a megacorp, not unless an Omega Order is involved, and everyone involved is eliminated.
As for who will fall, Ares seems to be recovering from the Excalibur debacle, and the factions are more stable now, but the bugs are working against them actively. Still, I don't see them as taking the hit. My thoughts are this:
NeoNET - Shadowrun Chronicles IS set in Boston, NeoNET's hometown, and is almost certainly going to involve Sybil, which is more than likely due to NeoNET's throwing AIs in cyberjail and dissecting them to figure out how they work. And their leadership is sharply divided into factions that just don't get along, and never will (much like how Fuchi was before its downfall). Add all that up, and NeoNET seems the most likely candidate.
Horizon - They've had problems with TMs, problems with AIs, problems with Spirits, problems with Azzies... And what happens if head cases get into the Consensus?
Evo - AI experimentation and their EvoCulture leaves them vulnerable to Sybil. A few well-positioned head cases in a corp where people are always adding on new augmentations is going to cause problems. Still, I'd put them as the dark horse in this race.
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Could live with any of those. Though Evo obiously would hurt many of the "stick it to the man"-movements.
Which on the other hand is a good thing. Taking out the light would give SR more grit.
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Could live with any of those. Though Evo obiously would hurt many of the "stick it to the man"-movements.
Which on the other hand is a good thing. Taking out the light would give SR more grit.
I disagree. Without some sorta light the world becomes hopeless and that changes the game from dark and gritty to something focused on pure survival.
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Wait a second......you mean Evo are the good guys of shadowrun?????
either in my 4 weeks reading madness I have missed everything pointing to that or you are reading somewhere between the lines?
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Well, Evo, Wuxing, and Horizon typically come off as 'lesser evils', compared to, say Mitsuhama or Aztechnology.
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Hmkay, I havent read anything about Wuxing yet, but Evo? CFD seems to be on their turf (and NeoNETs but also on theirs). And Horizon got the bad guys status after the Vegas massacre.
What is it, that Evo is percieved as lesser evil?
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As I recall, EVO is known as the most metahuman - friendly of the Big 10, and has done a ton for pushing a progressive and inclusive "all metasapients are family/equal/etc". Largely comes from them changing from the Japanacorp Yamatetsu to the Japanese/Russian EVO, based out of Vladivostok. Also that 2 of the largest shareholders are an Ork and a free spirit, so that helps.
In the 4E Corporate Guide I think it also mentioned that while am EVO Mr Johnson will still betray you if he has orders to or whatnot, he/she will usually seem to feel genuinely bad about it. Basically that it's absolutely not personal, but everyone has a boss and everyone has orders.
So yeah, as a Corp they aren't necessarily any less guilty of shady practices than the other ones (wetwork, forcible extractions, datasteals, sabotage, etc), but they're usually less overt about it, and they're known for being one if the most eco-friendly, slightly-less-ethically-vague of the AAA corps.
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Every mega is evil (or eeeeevil) in its own way. MCT is pretty straightforward while Horizon is the Google work campus cult run amok. EVO's dark side is social conditioning and/or political correctness to an extreme degree--one at which dissent isn't tolerated. It's hard to say if that's more or less evil than MCT's Zero Zone policy, but it's certainly more insidious.
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That's ... not my read on Evo, but hey. Everyone has their interpretation.
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People use a fairly short list of item to deliver a megacorporation its certificate of goodness.
Try to summon "demons" ?
Racist ?
Mob connection ?
Run by Lofwyr ?
And that's it. Everything else pretty much are "things every corp do, you know". For a long time, Ares did get away with purposefully maintaining countries in civil war to sell more weapons. Meanwhile, mere support of Triads' smuggling operation had Wuxing labelled as more evil. But now Ares summon insect spirits, it's wholly different.
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might be because I am german myself but.....I have never seen SK as evil....just efficient :D
but ok, I see where you are going
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might be because I am german myself but.....I have never seen SK as evil....just efficient :D
but ok, I see where you are going
In my book S-K is quite evil indeed. Here is why:
(Disclaimer: The following represents my interpretation of S-K and is often not entirely based on canon)
- Lead by a very ruthless entity, who literally walks over dead bodies to get what it wants. He does not need to negotioate with other board members.
- Prime is a very capable highly efficient intelligence agency of S-K. Think a marriage of NSA and KGB. They don't limit themselves to spy on others, their view is also centered on the inside. Lofwyr never had a tolerance for disobedience or dissent in general, so imgagine how fun it is to joke around when everyone could be a snitch and every decive could listen in.
- Owns basically the complete european matrix. He had a switch installed, without anyone knowing, which led his network to survive the crash 2.0 unharmed. Not only did he knew about it in advance, but also he demonstrated his complete control over the european matrix (most was just build by S-K and sold to other countries/cities). And noone really complained. At least none that was heard about ...
Keep in mind my second point, Prime might have the capability to just listen in on S-K tech.
Lofwyr would never accept anyone in command, so how likely is that he would concede power to an organisation like GOD without any tricks up his sleeve? To the corporate negotiations about the new Matrix after the crash 2.0 Lofwyr send two characters: Dr. Antionio Vieri (see below) and one of his most important operatives, not lawyers and managers.
- He employs Dr. Antonio Vieri, a famous capacity on matrix research. Also this name was used (according to the wiki entry) by the immortal Leonardo who managed to break into all major AAAs networks simultaneously. Lofwyr brought him down and may have abducted him. This guy's inventions managed to nearly get Renraku to become the biggest Mega, shortly before the Deus incident. I'm sure Lofwyr will not have him do humanitarian research ...
- S-K's most frightened tool of power has always been one that has rarely seen spotlight: banks. Lofwyr used financial maneuvers to become CEO of S-K, he used and secretly bought banks to make S-K rise to AAA status and afterwards to climb to the top amongst them. His strategy of buying into independent banks in secret or just utilize them is a terrible tool of power. We can't know how many of these institutes he has influence in and we have seen in the current day what terrible things a few misguided investment bankers could do ...
- Lofwyr likes tools and metahumanity is nothing but that to him. Evo might be the big Transhuman player, but it pales in scariness against Lofwyr's agenda: S-K had very aggressively researched and aquired any information about the Magus genome. S-K has the tech to clone humans. It also was very successful in using Cybermantie and I once read (hope I don't mix things now) that S-K did not get the knowledge from the Azzis - who are rumored to have developed the blood magic component. Combine that and you get a dragon that will not hesitate to change the metahuman nature to make serve him better or maybe even create his own version of awakened, cybered up loyal soldiers. The dragons did it once before, just ask the Drakes....
- It's called Saeder-Krupp heavy industries. As a triple A it has it fangs in nearly any business sector, but the foundations are banks and heavy industries. With banks he can make money when things are good, but heavy industrie really shines when there is a big rubble to clean up and build new stuff afterwards. If things run well, he just makes profits, but if things really break apart he can also swallow up real estate, build infrastructure which means he sinks his claws deep into territory.
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... wow. Plan 9, you changed your name.
It's certainly an ... interesting take on things. Not entirely accurate by a long shot, but definitely interesting.
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Still sounds..... efficient? :D
Welp, i know SK isnt the nicest but I feel Ol' Goldsnout wouldnt be the worst person to rule everything.....if everything is ruled by him, everything is his property and he defends his property :D
not gonna happen, though, at least I hope not.
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It's certainly an ... interesting take on things. Not entirely accurate by a long shot, but definitely interesting.
It's my opinion, my highly subjective view on this particular corporation. The factual basis for my interpretations was mostly the various shadow wiki entrys and some of the older novels (I know those are hardly canon). I'd be interested to hear your take on S-K.
I didn't want to suggest that S-K is most evil corporation. Every Mega is evil, that is what the essence of the SR dystopia (in my opinion). It's just a different flavour of evil.
I wouldn't want to be ruled by Lofwyr. He has too many similarities with Darth Vader - and I never saw faces of joy among the crew of his Star Destroyer...
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wow, you really paint Lofwyr as my favorite dictator :D
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Well, here's the thing, McGuffin, and kind of a guiding concept around here - when you drop information, you need to be absolutely clear on what is book truth canonical (and yes, everything published by the people with the RPG rights at the time is canon), what is something you found elsewhere but don't know for certain is canon, and what is your opinion or you're making up. Just at a glance, I can see two glaring errors, and another three or four 'yes, this is likely true to an extent, but there's definitely a writer's-slant to it' portions, but you're presenting all of it as though it were canon. So what you have written up above is, functionally, your own version of Saeder-Krupp - not 'these are the facts extracted from the surrounding text that reveals why Lofwyr is a bad guy'.
Lofwyr is a great dragon. Great Dragons have great passions, one might say obsessions; his is control. (Alamais's passion was for power; you can see which one loses out in the end.) S-K is a means to an end, control over as much of his environment and the elements within them as possible, and it's his best tool, but if Lofwyr believes S-K has to take a hit in order for him to gain another percentage point of control over some individual, aspect, or region, he'll have the corporation take the hit, because he's getting what he wants.
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Well, here's the thing, McGuffin, and kind of a guiding concept around here - when you drop information, you need to be absolutely clear on what is book truth canonical (and yes, everything published by the people with the RPG rights at the time is canon), what is something you found elsewhere but don't know for certain is canon, and what is your opinion or you're making up. Just at a glance, I can see two glaring errors, and another three or four 'yes, this is likely true to an extent, but there's definitely a writer's-slant to it' portions, but you're presenting all of it as though it were canon. So what you have written up above is, functionally, your own version of Saeder-Krupp - not 'these are the facts extracted from the surrounding text that reveals why Lofwyr is a bad guy'.
Lofwyr is a great dragon. Great Dragons have great passions, one might say obsessions; his is control. (Alamais's passion was for power; you can see which one loses out in the end.) S-K is a means to an end, control over as much of his environment and the elements within them as possible, and it's his best tool, but if Lofwyr believes S-K has to take a hit in order for him to gain another percentage point of control over some individual, aspect, or region, he'll have the corporation take the hit, because he's getting what he wants.
I edited my previous post (too lazy to rewrite it) and added a disclaimer. I thought I made it clearer that it was my interpretation of S-K in response to Zukkels post. I was wrong. Don't write hastily in foreign languages while at work. There might be a lesson there ::)
I do agree with your assessment of Lofwyr's "control issue". I just find it very hard to come up with any kind of explanation that would justify for S-K to lose its triple A status (without him going full rampage) for him to gain somehow more. I just think that a Mega can do all the mundane things better than a double or single A corp. And even if not: such a powerful corp could just buy into a single A corp that looks more innovative or whatnot.
In the end we on the forum are probably overthinking the stuff too much. Whichever corp will fall, I just hope the cause won't be invented with a pen-stroke the same moment its fall is announced, but grounded somewhat in the metaplot or the realm of economical/political plausibility (of SR) and that Catalyst is using the opportunity to create exciting stuff, because a falling titan creates lots of cool job opportunities for runners.
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So, looking at the whole Lockdown mess, it becomes clear that the list of megas that may fall has been reduced to 3.
NeoNET: Most likely contender, as Celedyr and Cerberus were some of the main players behind the project.
EVO: Also neck deep in things, given what they contributed to the program.
Aztechnology: Dark horse in this race, but there are just so many people who would love to make them take the fall for this.
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Oh I'm definitely gonna let my group play this whole thing and let them decide.
But I hope the data will go to Wuxing. Guessing this will demolish aztlan then :D
Tomorrow they will get the first big CFD reveal......im playing the long game ;)
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If it is NeoNET, then that will make the third dead mega some of that IP/tech/people have been through after Fuchi and Novatech. I would be wary of touching any of their stuff after that
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If it is NeoNET, then that will make the third dead mega some of that IP/tech/people have been through after Fuchi and Novatech. I would be wary of touching any of their stuff after that
You might be but some corp, mega or not, would snatch every bit they can because they can make buck...err nuyen.
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I hope it isn't EVO, in the grand scheme of things, or at least all t hat I've read- they have the least amount of black marks, though an oddly boring board of directors despite efforts to make them zany and different. They're uniquely the only full bore transhuminist AAA.
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I still hope it's Ares. That would deal a great blow to the setting and really be something new, while all the assets could still remain in North American hands (mostly), thus not harming the feeling of the game very much.
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Going by Lockdown, it's either NeoNET (most likely), EVO (likely), or Aztechnology (less likely), and the mega that falls will in part be driven by players of Shadowrun Chronicles and by GMs who submit their tabletop run results online.
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I can barely remember what NeoNet even does, I've never done a run for them even indirectly, I've never run them in my campaigns and whatever they do do even if I've been involved with it it doesn't jump out to me. If I recall they came out of 1 or 2 companies that have fallen previously, so really, they seem like the least interesting company to fall but probably safest for preserving the setting. Id Est, boring.
Not, what you're saying boring, but my thoughts on the issue of NeoNET falling.
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Well, actually from the standpoint of the game world, EVO is probably the one of the three that would cause the least splash if it went down. NeoNET is primarily known for its tech stuff, as well as being the primary competition to S-K in Europe. Oh, and being the only other mega to have a dragon (openly) in the power structure. But all of the megas have their hands in every pie.
If you want a good primer on what the various megas do, check the Corporate Guide.
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Actually EVO is a major player in the Pacific Rim and Europe, with a huge meaning for Russia. It's partially run by a Spirit and one of the largest producers of biotechnology, nano-technology and goods for metahumans. I think if they'd collapse, it would not only form a huge splash - as it indeed should, when a mega falls - but it would also change how the megas deal with metahumans. Remember that Yamatetsu was once one of the most racist corporations, before the leadership change during the 2050s.
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He's approaching it from a different angle than you, Ursus. Unlike NeoNET (via RJR Reynolds) and Aztechnology, Evo is not one of the First Seven - the ones that cannot be disenfranchised, that are permanent members of the Court, and therefore permanently AAA corporations. Of the three, a permanent takeout of Evo would be least cataclysmic. However, they'd all be cataclysmic; the last two times it's happened have been ... major game changers, either in effect or in cause.
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As Wyrm says, taking out NeoNET or Aztechnology would require, among other things, a substantial rewrite of the Corporate Court's charter. There's a reason why full on Omega Orders are rare, even against entities that are upsetting the entire playing board for everyone else. When Aztechnology tried to snatch all corporate property in Aztlan, the response was bombing a base. When Arty boy went to war with the Villiers, the court didn't bother getting involved until after he'd already chewed through an A and an AA corp as practice, and crippled Novatech to the point where the IPO was necessary.
To take out one of the original seven would then make it so that ANY of the original seven could be taken out.
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Well, not exactly. As we've theorized, all it would take would be one of the others to absorb the one ...
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Well, not exactly. As we've theorized, all it would take would be one of the others to absorb the one ...
And the fighting over who would get to absorb that piece would be LEGENDARY.
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I doubt it. Acquiring it would most likely be accomplished by a certain sleight-of-hand.
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I will laugh like hell if it is AZT that falls, and winds up in the Orange Queen's pocket.
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Considering her utter lack of resources on that scale, I think that vanishingly possible.
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Unlike NeoNET (via RJR Reynolds) and Aztechnology, Evo is not one of the First Seven - the ones that cannot be disenfranchised, that are permanent members of the Court, and therefore permanently AAA corporations. Of the three, a permanent takeout of Evo would be least cataclysmic. However, they'd all be cataclysmic; the last two times it's happened have been ... major game changers, either in effect or in cause.
The corporation to which Neonet owes AAA rating is JRJ International. The name is considered to be a reference of some sort to R.J. Reynolds company, or RJR (not "RJR Reynolds" - the second R is the one of Reynolds). But that's a reference. It has never been stated if that was to mean JRJ was a tobacco business, if RJ Reynolds existed in the SR timeline and if it was a component of JRJ. Oddly enough, it would be one of the few case, along with US broadcast television - NBC, ABC and CBS being replaced by NBS, ABS and CBC - where an existing corporation is only alluded to, instead of being mentioned openly - as BMW, General Motors, Hyundai, IBM, Apple and countless other have been.
The fall of Cross Applied Technologies was anything but cataclysmic. Lucien Cross death in an air crash was just a random event. Sure, it happened because of the second Matrix crash disrupted air traffic control. But air crash happens all the time for all sort of reasons (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29722498). It could just have happened the week before. To say such accident is enough to crush a AAA rated megacorporation is to say any of them can vanish anytime.
But if you ask me, that section of System Failure was bad. The actual problem of the Seraphim suddenly becoming unreliable is barely addressed and then Ares performs a "magical takeover" sadly typical of SR that completely ignore the basics of how corporations are supposed to work.
To take out one of the original seven would then make it so that ANY of the original seven could be taken out.
Well, not exactly. As we've theorized, all it would take would be one of the others to absorb the one ...
And the fighting over who would get to absorb that piece would be LEGENDARY.
I doubt it. Acquiring it would most likely be accomplished by a certain sleight-of-hand.
The scenario would depend on the corporation. The founders' privilege is attached to the company proper. Ares Macrotechnology, Aztechnology, Mitsuhama Computer Technologies and Shiawase are founding corporations. The three others still are BMW, JRJ International and Keruba International, but the rating apply to their parent corporation - Saeder-Krupp, Neonet and Renraku Computer Systems (although the book mentions Richard Villiers personally owns JRJ, which I fail to understand how it could be done).
That is to say, the AAA guarantee could be attached to an empty shell. Aztechnology or Neonet could be dismantled, with Pemex, Dassault or Stuffer Shacks, or Novatech, Transys Neuronet and Erika going to different corps, and the AAA guarantee to another one. While for instance Ares Macrotechnology would be very interested in taking over Dassault, to further establish its domination on the defense industry, the only point in acquiring the AAA guarantee of Aztechnology would be to prevent Wuxing, Horizon or a AA corporation from getting it, which is a goal several AAA could agree on.
It's not clear however what the legalese that bind AAA rating and Zurich-Orbital Gemeinshaft Bank shares. It would make sense for the founding corporations to each have a nominal golden share in ZOG, and that those shares are the actual guarantee for AAA rating. Which could mean that if a founding corporation was to take over another one, it could get double dividends from ZOG and possibly even a second administrator seat. But it is also possible that such golden shares provisions would have been written in a way that prevent this.
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IIRC According to SR4s SOTA 2 Ares already ~sorta controls Dassault, and I think it was Espirit, which are both owned in a weird way by AZT. It was a weird work around for AZT to sell their product through whatever embargo they had on their military arms, but effectively Ares was ripping them off in the process. All this I've gathered from mixed reports and shadowtalk in the latter SR4 supplements. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to me if Ares gobbled up much of AZT's major companies, though I always got the feeling from the books that Ares was kinda just holding on. Aztechnology always seemed kinda immovable to me, even if they were in a huge debt and kinda economically paralyzed.
But that's just what I've gathered and felt out, to me it seemed more like conflicting stories that the writers accidentally glossed over.
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As Wyrm says, taking out NeoNET or Aztechnology would require, among other things, a substantial rewrite of the Corporate Court's charter.
No it would not, and I believe that is not at all, what the Wyrm said. The Corporate Court's charter does not state that Aztechnology is a permanent member, ORO Corporation is. The same goes for Saeder-Krupp (BMW) or NeoNET (JRJ International). Which was the example the Wyrm used.
True, this would be a hefty shakedown for the corp world, Aztechnology's demise most certainly more than NeoNET's, though, as the JRJ International seat seems to be a bit of a cursed item. But true, my angle is completely diffrent. I care more about what the corporations stand for, not how they are legitimized in the Corporate Court's charter.
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ORO Corporation IS Aztechnology. They did a name change; Aztechnology does not own ORO the way NeoNET owns JRJ International (thank you, Nath, yes, I know, I forgot the exact name, but hopefully the lesson was useful for others); they ARE ORO Corporation. Therefore, if they were somehow reduced to the point where someone else COULD purchase them, the situation would change from 'we are X corporation to 'we own X corporation' for whomever purchased it. The Starting Seven may never be able to be removed from the Court, but that just means that a different technique is going to be required to 'eliminate' them from the competition.
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IIRC According to SR4s SOTA 2 Ares already ~sorta controls Dassault, and I think it was Espirit, which are both owned in a weird way by AZT. It was a weird work around for AZT to sell their product through whatever embargo they had on their military arms, but effectively Ares was ripping them off in the process. All this I've gathered from mixed reports and shadowtalk in the latter SR4 supplements. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to me if Ares gobbled up much of AZT's major companies, though I always got the feeling from the books that Ares was kinda just holding on. Aztechnology always seemed kinda immovable to me, even if they were in a huge debt and kinda economically paralyzed.
But that's just what I've gathered and felt out, to me it seemed more like conflicting stories that the writers accidentally glossed over.
There only was one SOTA book published for the fourth edition, SOTA: 2073. It never mentions Dassault, and only mentions Esprit as the shipbuilder for a tug boat in the "street legal" section. The Ares Arms catalog only features Ares, Evo, Ruhrmetall and "Nizhinyi" (a Russian company, likely a reference to the Sokol company) products.
You may be thinking about either Mil Spec Tech or Mil Spec Tech 2. The former agglomerate two Ares Arms catalogs with two Dassault catalogs. While the Ares catalogs do contain Saeder-Krupp, Renraku, Saab, Federated-Boeing and Nissan products, the Dassault ones feature products from Aztechnology subsidiary, save one rail gun made by a Renraku subsidiary. The latter is one single Ares catalog, with products from Dassault, Lockheed, Regulus and Heckler & Koch. The page on the Dassault Zeta Bravo aircraft mentions a licensing agreement to sell it to customers outside of South America.
Otherwise, I never saw anything close to what you describe.
The Corporate Court's charter does not state that Aztechnology is a permanent member, ORO Corporation is.
Not only did ORO changed its name to Aztechnology, but it did so in 2022, the year before the establishment of the Corporate Court in 2023.
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ORO Corporation IS Aztechnology. They did a name change; Aztechnology does not own ORO the way NeoNET owns JRJ International (thank you, Nath, yes, I know, I forgot the exact name, but hopefully the lesson was useful for others); they ARE ORO Corporation.
That of course is true. But JRJ used to be a megacorporation, too, and they were eventually incorporated into the Fuchi conglomerate. These corps are not single entities, they are networks of diffrent companies joined under a common roof. And ONE of these companies owns a permanent ticket. Yes, ORO - owning the ORO ticket - was rebranded into Aztechnology, but given the diversified leadership structure and internal power-struggles of Aztechnology it's not easy to say which group controls the ticket and how this migh affect ownership. The AAA corporation controlling the ticket (now called Aztechnology) will for all eternity control a seat in the CC, but it cannot be guaranteed that the very autonomously lead regional AA subsidiaries of the AAA-entity might not split off, re-brand etc. and thus weaken the AAA-corporation now behind them. Whatever happened to JRJ can happen to all AAA corporations, because AAA-corporations usually don't own production assets directly. They own ownership over them.
But I guess all that is mute, until we know whim Catalyst decided to take the hit.
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We haven't said that that can't happen; in fact, we've pretty much stated that that's exactly what would have to happen. But your argument was that 'Aztechnology' doesn't have one of the Seven Golden Tickets because they're not ORO Corporation, when in fact they do, because they ARE ORO Corporation, simply renamed. JRJ is the official signatory; any corporation which owns JRJ (Fuchi, Novatech, NeoNET) possesses that Golden Ticket. However, JRJ has been significantly reduced in size, so that it becomes a matter of 'ownership of JRJ', as compared to 'JRJ is the conglomerate in control of everything' the way Aztechnology is.
Yes, Aztechnology has a bunch of different stockholders, but they don't own stock in 'Quasimodo, Inc.', which fully or even partially owns Aztechnology; they have stock in Aztechnology itself, and AZT is the entity possessing subsidiaries. I don't say your current example is wrong; it's completely right. But your prior position was ... mistaken.
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Yes, Aztechnology has a bunch of different stockholders, but they don't own stock in 'Quasimodo, Inc.', which fully or even partially owns Aztechnology; they have stock in Aztechnology itself, and AZT is the entity possessing subsidiaries.
Well, Aztechnology shareholders and board members identity are secret, per Aztlaner laws. For all we known, there totally might be a Quasi Modo Sociedad Anónima who owns 90+% of Aztechnology S.A. and belongs to the individuals otherwise listed on Shadowland and Jackpoint as Aztechnology shareholders. That actually would be an effective way to enforce secrecy. The only thing that's make me say there is no such holding is that the authors who wrote on Aztechnology structure so far displayed no knowledge or no willingness to engage into so overtly complex setting.
Though uncommon, such bizarre shareholding structures exist in real life (http://www.forbes.com/sites/luisakroll/2012/05/18/inside-lvmhs-byzantine-ownership-structure/) and even experts casually handwave it because it has little effect outside of takeover scenario like the one we're discussing.
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That's not limited to just Aztechnology. The ownership of the Big Ten is ridiculously simple, which makes sense if the idea is to use each group of owners like a cabal of nobles vying for control over their respective houses than in ever trying to replicate how large corporations actually work.
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Yes and no. Remember that for the most part - Saeder-Krupp being the single outstanding exception that proves the rule - the quantities of stocks held by the individuals listed is a) listed in percents, and b) generally doesn't make up more than 30-40% in total. While this means that yeah, there are billions of shares out there owned by nobodies, small groups, etc., remember that you may also be looking at people like Dunkelzahn (who keep quiet about it), behind-the-shareholder entities like Lofwyr before his coup, and other such individuals/stockholding conglomerates/etc.
I do agree, though, that for the most part, it's highly simplified and treated like Crimsondude says.
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Just reading through Bloody Business, and got all kinds of shivers down my spine when I got to the chapter where NeoNET, partially responsible for unleashing Deus again, was considering picking up the ACHE as their new NorthAm HQ. Because NOTHING will go wrong with THAT!
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Remember that for the most part - Saeder-Krupp being the single outstanding exception that proves the rule - the quantities of stocks held by the individuals listed is a) listed in percents, and b) generally doesn't make up more than 30-40% in total.
Actually, among all the shareholders lists in Corporate Shadowfiles, Corporate Download and Corporate Guide, only one covered less than 40% of the stock: Yamatetsu in Corporate Shadowfiles. It covered 35% ... because the third entry, for Newton Chin, has no number written before the percent sign (based on the percentage he owns according to Corporate Download, that would go up to 40%). And each corporate sourcebook pushed consolidation further.
Corporate Shadowfiles
Ares Macrotechnology 56%
Aztechnology 0%
Fuchi Industrial Electronics 97%
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies 44%
Renraku Computer Systems 0%
Saeder-Krupp 0%
Shiawase 44%
Yamatetsu 35%
Corporate Download
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
Aztechnology 0%
Cross Applied Technologies 90%
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies 64%
Novatech 100%
Renraku Computer Systems 0%
Saeder-Krupp 100%
Shiawase 54%
Wuxing 63%
Yamatetsu 70%
Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
Aztechnology 0%
Evo 67%
Horizon 0%
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies 65%
Neonet 75,5%
Renraku Computer Systems 0%
Saeder-Krupp 100%
Shiawase 74%
Wuxing 0%
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Hm! So much for my vaunted memory. I recalled MCT being displayed as maybe 20% of the total ... but hey, there's still a huge chunk of each one that's out there at this point.
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Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
This number has increased. Gavilan has increased its holdings to 16-17%, and Rhonabwy owns 5-6% through shells and holding companies.
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Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
This number has increased. Gavilan has increased its holdings to 16-17%, and Rhonabwy owns 5-6% through shells and holding companies.
Which book are those change from?
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They're from the secret writer's notes, natch!
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Pretty sure that was discussed in Storm Front, but I may be wrong. (There was some shfiting around in Ares during Crash 2.0, what with them going after CATCo like a shark against a stunned narwhal.)
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Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
This number has increased. Gavilan has increased its holdings to 16-17%, and Rhonabwy owns 5-6% through shells and holding companies.
Which book are those change from?
Rhonabwy's stake goes back to DotSW, 134 (4-5%; my SR memory isn't keeping up as well these days).
Speaking of which, I commingled Nick Aurelius's 3-5% and Gavlian's 12.2% because it was referenced when he was the sole proxy for Gavilan and therefore controlled up to 17.2% of Ares Macrotechnology shares. Conspiracy Theories, 45. It's not been said who received his shares following his death.
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With the looming release of Shadowrun Chronicles I've been thinking about which mega is going to be the Corp that has been promised to fall.
Ares has the the Excalibur PR problems and possibly bug issues.
Horizon screwed up with the video footage against AZ
NeoNet is based in Boston so that's a possibility.
Those are the three that I believe are the most likely.
Anybody else have any ideas, thoughts, speculation?
S-K. Their bonds are about to blowup and the Dragon is having issues.
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S-K. Their bonds are about to blowup and the Dragon is having issues.
Please elaborate. Why is that going to happen?
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Going to requote myself since the Lockdown book makes this question somewhat clearer in my opinion. Granted, there are unknown factors we cannot account for, but the book seems pretty clear in it's statement that one of the following is going to take the hit for CFD, and it's not going to be pretty.
Going by Lockdown, it's either NeoNET (most likely), EVO (likely), or Aztechnology (less likely), and the mega that falls will in part be driven by players of Shadowrun Chronicles and by GMs who submit their tabletop run results online.