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[5E] Getting to 25, Negative Qualities that enhance your character

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gargaM0NK

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« on: <02-10-17/0907:51> »
    It seems like in 4E/20A, some negative qualities were so easy to live with, that in 5E there were significant efforts to re-balance them. Stuff like Addiction: BETEL Gum.

    As a player, I'm not opposed to qualities that give me weaknesses - that's kind of the point. And some can give me role-playing hooks to play around, which adds... well... character to the runner. But on both sides of the table, I'm not a huge fan of qualities that slow the game down. Especially in missions where the whole table has a time limit on it, flaws that are constantly demanding rolls can negatively impact everyone's experience.

    With that in mind, I'm looking for recommendations on flaws for various roles that can help me hit that 25 point cap without making my characters obnoxious to run with. Qualities that are legal for Shadowrun: Missions characters. Also ones that I can live with long term without spending 2x Karma to buy off.

This is an optimization thread, so comments like, "just take ones that fit the character", while valid, are not relevant to this discussion.

So, in your experience, what are some flaws that have either not overly gotten in the way, or have actually made your characters more interesting/fun to play?

THE LIST SO FAR:
General:
  • Accident Prone (R5p33; 4)
  • Albinism (RFp151; 4) - With Cybereyes
  • Code of Honor: Assassin's Creed (15)
  • Elf / Orc Poser(6)
  • Emotional Attachment (CFp57; 5)
  • Illiterate (RFp155; 5) - Non-Hackers
  • Impaired Attribute (RFp120; 8 )
  • Phobia (RFp157; 5-12)
  • Reduced Sense: Taste (RFp159; 2)
  • Reduced Sense: Smell (Ibid; 2)
  • Uneducated (8 ) - Low Logic characters
  • Weak Immune System (10)
Anti-Social Characters:
  • Antipathy (CFp57; 8 )
  • Designated Omega (CAp152; 5)
  • Disheveled (CAp152; 5)
  • Paranoia (RFp157; 7)
Close Quarters Specialist:
  • Hobo with a Shotgun (RFp155; 10)
  • Superhuman Psychosis (CFp59; 2)
Demolitions:
  • So Jacked Up (CFp59; 10)
Magical Support:
  • Poor Self Control (RFp158; 4-10) - Charisma Traditions
  • Simsense Vertigo (5)
  • So Jacked Up (CFp59; 10) - Logic Tradition
  • Spirit Bane: [Based on Tradition] (7)
Matrix Support:
  • Codeblock: Brute Force / Codeblock: Hack on the Fly (10) - Depending on Specialization
  • Code of Honor: Like a Boss (DTp46)
  • Creature of Comfort (RFp153; 10)
  • So Jacked Up (CFp59; 10)
Medic:
  • So Jacked Up (CFp59; 10)
Ork/Troll:
  • Elevated Stress (CTp189; 8 )
Transportation:
  • So Jacked Up (CFp59; 10)
Fire Support:
Infiltration:
Investigation:
Negotiation:[/list]
« Last Edit: <06-24-18/1926:50> by gargaM0NK »

gargaM0NK

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« Reply #1 on: <02-10-17/0909:59> »
Here's a rundown of Shadowrun: Missions rules regarding negative qualities for those who are not familiar:

Flaws can be from any of the following books:
[spoiler]
  • Shadowrun Fifth Edition (CAT27000)
  • Run & Gun (CAT27002)
  • Street Grimoire (CAT27003)
  • Run Faster (CAT27004)
  • Chrome Flesh(CAT27005)
  • Data Trails (CAT27006)
  • Rigger 5 (CAT27007)
  • Howling Shadows (CAT[27008)
  • Stolen Souls (CAT27200)
  • Hard Targets (CAT27201)
  • Lockdown (CAT27300)
  • The Vladivostok Gauntlet (E-CAT26S030)
  • Aetherology (E-CAT26S032)
  • Coyotes (E-CAT26S035)
  • The Assassin's Primer (E-CAT26S036)
  • Nothing Personal (E-CAT26S038)
  • Shadows in Focus:  City By Shadow:  Metropole (E-CAT26S038)
  • Gun Haven 3 (E-CAT26S040)
  • Sail Away Sweet Sister (E-CAT26S041)
  • Shadow Spells (E-CAT26S048)
  • Shadows in Focus:  Sioux Nation (E-CAT26S042)
  • Shadows in Focus:  City By Shadow:  Butte (E-CAT26S043)
  • Shadows in Focus:  City By Shadow:  San Francisco Metroplex (E-CAT26S050)
[/spoiler]

Except the following flaws:
[spoiler]
  • Amnesia (Run Faster, pg. 152)
  • Bad Rep (SR5, pg. 79)
  • Big Regret (Run Faster, pg. 153)
  • Blank Slate (Chrome Flesh, pg. 57)
  • Bushido 2.0 (Run Faster, pg. 30)
  • Code of Honor (SR5, pg. 79)
  • *Code of Honor:  Avenging Angel (Hard Targets, pg. 191)
  • Combat Junkie (Run & Gun, pg. 127)
  • Cyber-Snob (Chrome Flesh, pg. 57)
  • Curiosity Killed the Cat (Data Trails, pg. 46)
  • Data Liberator (Data Trails, pg. 46)
  • Day Job (Run Faster,pg. 154)
  • Dependent(s) (SR5, pg. 80)
  • Driven (Run Faster, pg. 154)
  • Earther (Run & Gun, pg. 169)
  • Ex-Con (Run Faster, pg. 155)
  • Flashbacks (Run Faster, pg. 155)
  • Harmony with Nature, The Shaman’s Code (Run Faster, pg. 26)
  • Hung Out to Dry (Run Faster, pg. 155)
  • In Debt (Run Faster, pg. 156)
  • LEEEEEEEROY JENKINS (Data Trails, pg. 48)
  • Loss of Confidence (SR5, pg. 82)
  • One of Them (Chrome Flesh, pg. 58)
  • Paraplegic (Run Faster, pg. 157)
  • Poor Self Control – Compulsive (Run Faster, pg. 158)
  • Poor Self Control – Vindictive (Run Faster, pg. 158)
  • Prank Warrior (Data Trails, pg. 49)
  • Records on File (Run Faster, pg. 158)
  • Social Stress (SR5, pg. 85)
  • The Code of the Good Cop (Run Faster, pg. 31)
  • The Code of the White Hat (Run Faster, pg. 31)
  • The Code of Wuxia (Run Faster, pg. 27)
  • The Hermetic Code (Run Faster, pg. 32)
  • Too Much Data (Rigger 5.0, pg. 33)
  • Tough and Targeted (Chrome Flesh, pg. 60)
  • Unsteady Hands (SR5, pg. 87)
  • Vendetta (Run Faster, pg. 159)
  • Wanted (Run Faster, pg. 159)
  • Wanted by GOD (Data Trails, pg. 49)
  • White Hats, The Code of the Hacker (Run Faster, pg. 27)
[/spoiler]

And with the following further caveats re: Addiction, Allergies, Code of Honor, and Incompetent:
[spoiler]
Addiction:  Characters with addictions should be certain to spend the money needed or mark off doses of the addicted substance as needed during any downtime. No tests are made for addiction during downtime, but at the beginning of each Mission you are required to make a single addiction test for each substance to which you are addicted. Edge may be spent on this roll, but it is considered spent and unavailable until you are able to recover Edge.  The threshold for the test is based on the Addiction Threshold minus any weeks spent conducting downtime activities on the SRM Calendar.  If the threshold is 0, no test is required.
If you have an existing addiction, in addition to rolling at the beginning of a Mission, you must roll anytime Edge refreshes, i.e. after a good meal and 8 hours rest.  If you take any addictive substance during a Mission, you make an addiction roll at the end of the Mission. The threshold for this test is equal to the full value of the addiction rating for each addictive substance.  A test is made for each type of addiction (physiological, psychological, or both) listed for the substance.
For addictions with no set price (such as gambling), you must spend at least 500¥ per level of addiction each time you succumb to your addiction.
The Addiction must be to something either somewhat expensive, harmful to the character in the short term, and/or otherwise difficult to obtain. There are many serious, real-life examples of addictions that can be very harmful and have long-term effects on a person but would have little to no effect on a Shadowrun game, especially in the Missions format. Things like caffeine or cigarette addictions would fall into the “disallowed” category, as these can be harmful but are also legal, cheap, and easy to obtain. MMO and sex addiction likewise wouldn’t come up in play very often, other than as a minor distraction to the character. Narcotics, BTLs, and expensive gambling are all acceptable examples of Addictions that can be used in Missions.

Allergies: All Allergies must be things that are possible to come up in a game session without the Gamemaster having to go out of his way to introduce them. An allergy to uranium or Macronesian bee stings, for example, are things that are never likely to come up in a game, and thus would not be allowed.

Code of Honor:  The basic Code of Honor negative quality as described on pg. 79 is not allowed  in Missions play, however specific Codes of Honor may be allowed from other source books.  For example, Assassin’s Creed is allowed from the SR5 source book, but Warrior’s Code is not.

Incompetent: This quality can only apply to a skill group the character is likely to need and use on a regular basis. Outdoors, Engineering, Cracking, and Biotech are groups that should only be taken as incompetent if they would directly be a skill your character’s build would use, such as a medic for Biotech, decker for Cracking, rigger for Engineering, etc. This should be a skill that has an impact on your character and your game-play, not something easily ignored.
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: <02-10-17/2332:27> by gargaM0NK »

ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #2 on: <02-10-17/2130:42> »
Insomnia is not something you should take lightly. Being unable to heal stun damage is a HUGE deal for characters who routinely get stun damage via Drain/Fading.

Uncouth and Uneducated are qualities that lock low CHA/LOG characters from getting better, unless they buy them out. If you have CHA 1, it is cheaper to raise it to 3 and buy a point of Etiquette than to buy out this quality alone. The worst thing about Uncouth is that it prevents you from even trying to not be a colossal asshole.

Allergy (Uncommon, Moderate) gives you 10 karma almost for free. It depends on GM mostly, but let's face it: there are not many bees in 2075 Seatle.

Superhuman Psychosis gives 2 karma, some Unarmed dice, and resistance to supressing fire. Great for a melee guy.

If you really want to cheese Codeblocker, go for Codeblocker: Set Data Bomb.

Albinism for a character with cybereyes is another 4 easy karma.

Poor Self Control is a good idea if a character has a strong Composure roll (WIL+CHA).

Infirm (Body) will not hurt anyone who doesn't softcap BOD attribute at the start.

Did You Just Call Me Dumb is ok for a Face-ish character who's unlikely to glitch a social skill test.

Antipathy may be a fine substitute to Uncouth, because it only affects opposed rolls. Rolls vs a threshold are unaffected.

Tough and Targeted may or may not be a good idea for a hardened combatant.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

Beta

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« Reply #3 on: <02-10-17/2138:29> »
If you are feeling fortunate or just like taking risks, make a 1 edge character and take bad luck.  You won't be counting on edge much anyway, and if it is life or death you still have a 5/6 chance of things working out...
Tipperman  --
speechthoughtmatrix

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #4 on: <02-10-17/2216:18> »
Allergy (Uncommon, Moderate) gives you 10 karma almost for free. It depends on GM mostly, but let's face it: there are not many bees in 2075 Seatle.

If you really want to cheese Codeblocker, go for Codeblocker: Set Data Bomb.

Poor Self Control is a good idea if a character has a strong Composure roll (WIL+CHA).

Infirm (Body) will not hurt anyone who doesn't softcap BOD attribute at the start.

Tough and Targeted may or may not be a good idea for a hardened combatant.
ZeldaBravo, I agree with your comments regarding Insomnia and Uncouth/Uneducated. Insomnia is "liveable" at the less severe level, but it definitely doesn't make things easy. And in my own home games, I'm often tempted to completely disallow Uncouth (because everyone tries to talk at some point). Uneducated is workable for the right character builds, but it does require some work-around to be able to do some basic stuff.

I do have some comments, though, about your  suggestions:

Missions specifically states that Allergies to things that are never likely to come up in a mission aren't allowed, so even bees (despite being on the list of examples) is probably not a good choice.

Likewise, Codeblock specifically states that a character cannot take Codeblock toward hacking actions they are never likely to take. So unless you're making a Data Bomb specialist Hacker, that isn't a particularly good choice either.

Re-read Infirm, it lowers ALL physical attribute maximums by one for each 5 karma gained.

A fair number of the Poor Self Controls aren't an option for Missions-legal, and Tough and Targeted is also straight-up not allowed.

ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #5 on: <02-10-17/2304:18> »
Thanks for your input on Infirm. It just dropped from 'bad' to 'worst ever' on my list.

There's no list of what a Decker is 'likely' to do and what is unlikely. It's the part where the conscience should guide the player. Conscience is out of equation because this is, as OP said, an optimisation thread.

If we're talking about what's allowed for missions, isn't Code of Honor banned?
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

gargaM0NK

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« Reply #6 on: <02-10-17/2328:43> »
Thanks for the suggestions! I've updated the list accordingly. The only one I still have reservations about is Did You Just Call Me Dumb for Negotiation specialists.  While the risk is low, the consequences are high and the number of chances for it to come up is high as well.

Quote
If we're talking about what's allowed for missions, isn't Code of Honor banned?
The base Code of Honor quality is banned, but according to pg 17 of the Missions FAQ (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjshcgquyww3od4/SRM%20Chicago%20FAQ%20Ver%200.8.pdf?dl=0),
"Assassin’s Creed is allowed from the SR5 sourcebook, but Warrior’s Code is not."
« Last Edit: <02-10-17/2335:55> by gargaM0NK »

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #7 on: <02-11-17/0000:42> »
Notably, Codeblock doesn't say that it can't be applied to hacking actions "a decker" isn't likely to take. It says Characters can't apply to actions they are never likely to take. So unless you can honestly tell a GM, oh yeah I set Data Bombs all the time, you probably shouldn't be trying to apply it. It's like a Magician techno-phobe taking Incompetent (Engineering). If the decker took the Code of Honor: Like a Boss negative as well as Codeblock (Set Data Bomb), I'd be cool with it... but that's because Like a Boss basically forces the decker to only use Data Bombs as a method to deal Matrix Damage.

And yeah, in a recent update to the Missions FAQ, they allowed Code of Honor for specific codes. Basically, the individual codes are marked as "not ok" and making up your own code isn't allowed. Just Assassin's Creed, and the ones from the other splat books that aren't on the banned list, most of them are in Run Faster (because they put a huge list of codes in there). Also, they altered the penalty for breaking your Code so that if you break your Code more than once a mission you take considerably worse and worse penalties. Second infraction burns a point of Edge (not spend, burn), then you lose the ability to spend edge, then you lose all karma earns for the mission (in addition to that first infraction losing a point off your current earned karma).

EDIT: Speaking of Incompetent, Incompetent (Firearms) for a close-quarters guy would be interesting. I've lost count of the number of times that a Melee specialist has basically been put out of combat because they couldn't close the distance, so not being able to pick up a gun would definitely fall under the line of "it still affects them."
« Last Edit: <02-11-17/0005:15> by Kiirnodel »

Novocrane

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« Reply #8 on: <02-11-17/0032:22> »
Quote
Stuff like Addiction: BETEL Gum.
Betel is great stuff. One taste, and everyone wants more. Maybe it turns out you don't like making your way into corporate territory every time you want some Corpcandy, or you don't like the extra costs involved when you have to exchange nuyen for corpscrip. Maybe you look for alternatives instead, and that's where Fat Tony (or anyone like him) comes in. He's got a tonne of stuff just like Corpcandy (but he calls it Jaw), and he takes nuyen. Maybe Tony doesn't spike your Jaw straight off, but he's running a business, and the plan is always to get a fool addicted and rope them into more profitable purchases. Then again, maybe you do like schlepping back and forth across corporate borders to get your drug of choice. That's never going to look suspicious, right?

Slipperychicken

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« Reply #9 on: <02-11-17/0720:17> »
So Jacked Up looks like a great NQ for anyone whose main stat is logic. I'm planning to get it for my decker, and just stick to downers on the job for +1 LOG, -1 REA.

Xexanoth

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« Reply #10 on: <02-11-17/0929:20> »
Re-read Infirm, it lowers ALL physical attribute maximums by one for each 5 karma gained.
it also prevents you from augmenting the attribute with magic/ware, making the costs for it completely unbalanced, as rating 1 effectively cuts down your attribute maximum by 5, for 5 karma  :o.

Phobia(Run Faster) and Prejudiced(CRB) are two negative qualties that give good karma for little negative effects, similiar to allergy, but much better for roleplaying.

and unless there is a rule that wasn't mentioned, you could also take a look at the negative metagenics qualities from Run Faster which by RAW state:
Quote
While these qualities are intended to be the dark side of SURGE, they can also be taken by characters looking for a little extra
flavor from their character’s background, such as mysterious mutations or the side effects of gene therapies.
Impaired attribute is a pretty solid one, reduces the max attribute rating and augmented maximum by 2 for 8 Karma.

There's also a few good ones in CuttingAces, but we're gonna have to wait for a updated Missions FAQ to include it.


gargaM0NK

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« Reply #11 on: <02-11-17/1029:04> »
Good suggestions!

Impaired attribute is a good one. Runner's NEVER cap all of their attributes - nor should they.

I added phobia but capped it at 12 - I don't think common severe with composure(5) rolls and huge penalties is gonna be particularly playable

I'm leery of Prejudiced in a Missions setting though. Once the run is going, fine, cool. But since you often sign up for a table having no idea who the Johnson is going to be, I'm not wild about the shot in the dark of being refused / having to refuse the run because your character hates the job-offerer.