Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: veritastheeidolon on <10-12-11/2054:20>
-
I've realised that it's rather hard to tell precisely what level of security the average com-link has.
I'm just looking for examples of what sort of software you might expect from various general NPCs.
Examples:
the street tough, almost certainly has a second hand Meta-Link from 5 years ago and they have never bothered installing anything besides what came with the stock OS.
What about an average corp wage slave who spends their day working on graphic design templates? Sure their com-link is corporate provided, but what do they have loaded on it?
A Lonestar cop would have all the needed software put on by their in-house hacker, but assuming that such a hacker is average, what would you expect to find? A full Agent throwing black IC around like it was going out of fashion? Or just a basic scan routine operating on its own, ready to call in the hacker back at base?
What about Johnsons and Fixers? They presumably don't slack on matrix security, but what do they load up with?
Stay at home mothers?
I tend to find that non-hacker/rigger runners really don't even look at their com-links at character gen and just buy a stock OS without any software.
In short, can you give me some examples of the sorts of Hardware and Software in detail that people are likely to have running on their Com-links at various strata of society?
-
Well, according to the BBB, the Lone Star officer has a commlink that has a Device Rating 3.
-
i think some of the standard software would be in the Basic user suite. as far as comlinks, most likely something that's 3/3 with a 3/3 OS
-
Device ratings are all well and good, but I was looking for a higher resolution than that.
That device rating of 3 dictates the 4 main com-link attributes, but that's not quite what I was after. I was asking about what sort of software you could expect NPCs to have running/available to load.
Is it likely that the Lonestar grunt will have their own IC? (Considering that IC programmes cost thousands of Nuyen, probably exceeding the cost of a mid-range com-link on its own before you even give it any fun programmes.) What software would they have easy access to? (Taking into account the limits of what a rating 3 device can manage, they won't be able to have an unlimited amount of security software running.)
-
Well, it gives an indication that whatever programs that you feel the LS officer needs would be at Rating 3. They'd have the basic programs needed to do their job, an interpretation that varies from table to table. Personally, I don't give the LS or KE guys much to play with because it's just not cost effective - the same way that fitting them out with the latest weapons, armor and ammo isn't cost effective.
-
Personally, I don't give the LS or KE guys much to play with because it's just not cost effective - the same way that fitting them out with the latest weapons, armor and ammo isn't cost effective
Well it really just depends. You have to look at cost vs. reward. If giving them the best and latest will appeal to those hiring and get more contracts, then it may very well be cost effective. For instance, KE's has always upheld the image of being the elite of the elite with all the newest toys.
With them having a major player (Ares) as their parent corporation, they could get the newest in weapons and tech at just about cost since its in the parent corp's best interest to keep them in control.
As far as software goes, I usually have each officer loaded up with a Basic User+ setup and a higher level Scan, Weapon Watcher, and Noise Analysis. If there is a manhunt going on, they'll usually also have access to Facial Recognition, Gait Analysis, and possibly Voice Analysis depending on location.
I figure a corporation like Ares wouldn't be buying licenses for another corporation for their subsidiary's officers. It would be much more cost effective to build their own code for their in house programs (I also have KE with its own OS).
Average every day sprawlers probably don't have much more than a Basic or Pro User suite. I can see IT tech's having another suite or two out of Unwired, but most of the programs around just aren't friendly and common on people that are up to good (as opposed to us up to no good runners).
Johnsons/Fixers are another story. I usually have them running agents ready to shut things down if they get invaded. Likewise, they're ready to fight tooth and nail to keep their secrets. Often on Johnsons I will have an actual decker in VR bouncing around to provide overwatch. I don't usually give KE officers agents, but they do have a fully staffed matrix security office and sometimes in a pinch a VR decker will pop in to assist them.
-
Coporate guys will propably have a Pro User suit and security programs installed by their company hacker so they don't compromise their firms security with to slopy commlinks maybe even with some sort of hidden alarm rutine that alert the company hacker if something wrong is going on. And what ever program needed to do their job.
I can defenitely se cops with low rank agents that run different scanning softwares to spot known criminals so the cop frees up his own memory skills to do, well cop things. Agents are expensive, but copied from a central place and distributed to all street cops should keep costs down - especially if the company can make it's own coding.
Normal people with enough money probably have rather fancy commlinks but with a basic software suit. So a higher than average firewall but not really any useful programs. Maybe a good command program to control the household utility robots so you don't risk that the butler drone brings you a scotch instead of a dry martini :D
Rasmus
-
Average user: Device 2 comlink with basic user package, 1-6 entertainment and information programs.
Police officer: Device 3 link with basic user package, Analyze 3, Mapsoft 3 (Patrol area), Scan 3. May call a station for additional technical support.
When in doubt, give them appropriate programs at a rating equal to the device of their comlink. Keep in mind that IC on low rated comlinks can easily double their cost to modest benefit.
-
Excellent stuff, thanks guys.
-
Exactly. Any details that need to be shared with the 'Runners would be on degrading/flash paper of optical chips with deniablity built into them. "Ah, that does look like our letterhead and format, but if you go under the base information of the file, you'll see that it was actually made on a proprietary system designed, owned, and only used by a competitor."
-
With in-house software and economies of scale, corporate types can have anything they would plausibly need for their jobs, although it will generally be capped at the rating: 2 or 3 of their device.
Johnsons, I think, would be similar to runners in that they would have a throwaway commlink in active mode, and a "real" commlink running in hidden mode. But even the "real" commlink woudn't have any personal or sensitive information (unless it was deliberate misinformation) - it would only be used for coordinating with his/her security detail and other mission-related things like cred transfers and details about the specific job. Why would an anonymous middleman looking to hire deniable assets show up with a device they know can be hacked, that has information that can be used against them on it?
And sorry, CanRay, you were replying to my post, but I deleted it because the formatting made it look horrible (super-narrow column). The second paragraph is what I originally posted.
-
To repeat myself then: Exactly. Any details that need to be shared with the 'Runners would be on degrading/flash paper of optical chips with deniablity built into them. "Ah, that does look like our letterhead and format, but if you go under the base information of the file, you'll see that it was actually made on a proprietary system designed, owned, and only used by a competitor."
And, no, that wasn't to boost my post count at allllllllllllllllll... ;D
-
To repeat myself then: Exactly. Any details that need to be shared with the 'Runners would be on degrading/flash paper of optical chips with deniablity built into them. "Ah, that does look like our letterhead and format, but if you go under the base information of the file, you'll see that it was actually made on a proprietary system designed, owned, and only used by a competitor."
And, no, that wasn't to boost my post count at allllllllllllllllll... ;D
Like you really need to anymore. :P
-
According to the fluff in Unwired, most legit MSP contracts provide low-level programs and agents to subscribers.
Check out p. 42 for the skinny on what regular folk and illegal types do for their Trix.
-
Yeah, for me, the avreage person has a Commlink 2 with programs to match. Professionals who need the extra power step up to a 3 (Police, tech specialists, etc)... 4 is reserved for System Administrators and the like. Higher than that are high end support for Matirx-themed megas. The average corp drone at NeoNET, for instance, has a Commlink 3, while the tech guys have a 4 and the Sys Admins have a 5... tech support in other megas are always jealous of these guys' toys and NeoNET uses the dangle of better tech to recruit.
Add another rank for "Security Specialists" who get called in from regional when things go sideways. Add yet another for "Home Office", for when things are absolutely falling apart and you need the best the company has, STAT. (Yeah, that means NeoNET has home office guys with rating 7 systems, but, they *should* be scary.)
-
I would assume that most people and especially police officers and the like will have an analyse program with the same rating as their commlink. This will be running at all times.
-
The commlink I give most beat cops
Transys Avalon with Iris Orb
Firewall: 3
Response: 3
Signal: 3
System: 3
Basic+ Program Suite (Analyze 3, Browse 3, Command 1, Edit 3)
Scan 3
Encrypt 3
Armored Casing (B: 6 / I: 6)
Some form of non-obtrusive interface, usually AR Gloves, Subvoc Mic, Earbud, Contact Lens with Image Link. Also each KE officer has at least 1 rank in Electronic Warfare to Scan for hidden nodes.
-
I don't buy that a cop is going to have facial recognition and all the rest running on his commlink.
I can buy that a DRONE with sensor cameras and the like might... but not the officers. I also find it highly unlikely that the officer is going to have dedicated ICE running on his link.
What I can buy is a security organization like that might have a better analyze program running. (maybe even with optimization). And in case of a security breach, have a police combat decker on call who would be capable of tracing the attacker. Or the commlink might be set to cut it's signal rating to nothing killing all connections in the process.
-
While they might not have access to it at all times, with the matrix capabilities in 2073, they could easily gain access to Facial Recognition programs when needed. While obviously a local PD in midno USA might not have access to anything more complicated than the Basic+ software, anyone considered a competitive player in the security industry (Lone Star, Knight Errant, NYPD Inc., etc.) should have programs available to their force.
Keep in mind, these companies (Knight Errant especially being a subsidiary of Ares) have the money to have programs coded for them. More likely than not, they'd be running a custom OS and custom software suites specifically tailored for the job. The cost in this case wouldn't be the normal X,XXX„/person, because the company designed the software themselves and temporarily licenses it to each officer as needed (either by month, week, day, occurrence, etc.).
I agree with the IC though. It would be much more effective in most cases to have a high level Analysis that detects the intruder and calls home office for VR decker response.
I usually have each office loaded up with a comm and each vehicle with an additional (usually slightly more powerful) comm. I picture two KE Officer in a patrol car each having text scrolling in their patrol glasses image link as the vehicle comm is scanning for weapons and licenses and highlighting anything not legal on the windshield HUD.
-
I can see cops at places like checkpoints being given facial recognition and similar software to use while guarding, but not a beat cop.
-k
-
That's more or less exactly what I mean KI.
Running the software on the commlink, it still needs a camera feed. And I don't buy that officers are wearing trode nets and using 'natural' senses. I'm more likely to believe they're wearing AR contacts with smartgun links than cybereyes.
On the other hand, you get a dedicated checkpoint, and a reasonable drone or security camera at it (even an iBall or larger vehicle at a mobile checkpoint)... and you have a prime location to run some of that stuff. I don't buy that all the corp's have their own internal 'cracked' versions of everything they can deploy at will. Especially at high program ratings. If software like that becomes too common, it gets stolen and distributed widely outside the corp.
A rating 3 commlink can only run *2* programs without degradation. IMO: those two are most likely to be analyze and encryption. (maybe with the ergonomic option... to allow other utilities to be run as necessary like browse to pull criminal records and the like).
I think it's far more likely that the cop will take the equivalent of a cell phone pic and send it back to HQ for analysis than do the analysis on his own commlink.
-
Don't forget that CommLinks come with 'Trid Cameras as well. They're just not High-Definition. Like early Camera Cell Phones in my mind.
-
If an officer comes into a situation where they need a particular bit of software they can always call the office, request it and have it downloaded and installed almost instantly. This saves the police company the cost of buying a license for every officer, while allowing any officer that happens to need a bit of software to get it.
-
Can a AAA-Corp break a Software License if they have different laws pertaining to Software Licenses? Then again, if they don't obey them, then all the AA- and AAA-Corps don't have to do the same thing with their software.
Yeah, they probably have it legislated through the Corporate Court.
-
AAA corps can have someone shot in the street in broad daylight if they are willing to pay the price. That price would likely be lower then violating copywrite.
-
Hell, the price would be lower than shooting a dog. People are cheap in Shadowrun.
"Cheap. But not as cheap as your girlfriend." - Spider Jerusalem
-
I guess I'm weird, but when you're equipping an officer with a 23,000„ vehicle, a 400„ gun, and 900„ plus odds and ends, I don't think a 100„ camera is going to be a deal breaker.
As to AAA corporations not making their own software, corporations already do it today. Every company I work for has their own inventory software and most will also have their own software and database system for keeping track of employees, budgets, overtime, etc. It isn't even uncommon to see corporate tools with corporate OSs installed on them, which leads us right into the fact that between copy protection and custom OSs, it isn't that hard to make a program unusable even if it is stolen.
Custom software also has the benefits of being able to be designed exactly to the corporations needs. If the officers are going to be carrying a DR3 commlink, then a couple of optimized software suites would be the best route to go for the company. The cost of the company paying to have these programs coded is going to be much less than upgrading every officer's commlink to run the same effective programs licensed separately. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that corporations are "cracking" software, I'm saying they would have a department of programmers that are designing software for the company. If you don't think that is reasonable, look at Wal-mart, they have a huge programming office in Bentonville that creates streamlined software that is used company wide to assist with everything from managing cashier requests to assisting TLE techs with oil changes and tire tickets. Everything that is coded for them could technically be done with a licensed program of some sort or another, but integrating a bunch of programs together that aren't designed for it is a pain.
Technically a KE Officer wiht a DR 3 commlink could be running Threat Detection Suite (Weapon Watcher 3, Noise Analysis 3, Visual Spotter 3, and Vehicle Identification 3) and Basic Patrol Suite (Analyze 3, Encryption 3, Decryption 3, Browse 3, Scan 3, Command 3, Edit 3) and be fine. If you really want to get technical, with optimization they could be running rating 6 in all those with optimization. Of course crashing or hacking the suite will affect all of the programs in it, but that's why KE would probably put a better Firewall than 3 on most commlinks.
Similarly rather than running everything separately, I see officers at a roadblock or in a man hunt getting the Fugitive Tracking Suite (Gait Analysis 3, Voice Identification 3, Facial Recognition 3, Lie Detection 3, and Wildlife Spotter 3). I don't really see it as having to be installed on the officers link physically so much as, "Agent Johnson, you're working with Special Agent Johnson tonight, make sure to access the Tracking Suite real quick, its going to be a manhunt" and the programs are accessed on the network similar to how cloud computing works.
-
"Agent Johnson, again?" - John McClane
-
"No relation"
I see the not so subtle reference was recognized.
-
I went, "Wait, McClane is going to be working for a Johnson?" when I saw the fourth movie. ;D
As for custom software in business... *Shudders* The horrors of what I've seen. Not good. Not good at all!
-
Just remember, there is one good custom software suite out there for every 100 or so bad ones. A lot of times people gripe about the programmers when dealing with the software, but from the programmers standpoint, if you explain a hundred times that something won't be efficient and the client (the boss of everyone who will actually use the software usually) insists anyway, well he's writing the check.
I absolutely hate programming for people who don't understand the process at all but want to play "make believe" that they do. It almost always ends with a pile of useless crap getting delivered to them that you know they will gripe about despite vetoing every change you suggested to their foolproof design. *Shudders at the memory of someone insisting they can divide by zero so the computer should be able to also*
-
The cost of the company paying to have these programs coded is going to be much less than upgrading every officer's commlink to run the same effective programs licensed separately.
No. This is like saying that it would be cheaper to, rather then buying cars and guns, have the company build it's own factories to produce all the equipment it needs from scratch.
Software development for some things is relatively cheap. Getting your company to have it's own flavor of linix and it's own simple, not very optimized versions of database software isn't a big deal.
For -anything- else, it's much, much cheaper to buy a licensed copy of otherwise developed software. If you need to manage a database with a few hundred columns and a million entries a day that you need to be able to processes efficiently, you could spend half a billion dollars developing your own solution or a few million on a contract with Cisco.
And that is a -database-. It's just simple bits of info in rows and columns. Developing your own in house electronic warfare, facial recognition or operating system software would be the least efficient and logical possible way to go about things, especially when you could cheaply license software from another division of the same parent company, in many cases.
In SR: Knight Errant, for example, would get software from another Aries company when possible. If they couldn't, they are in business to make money. They'd buy software on the open market rather then do something that 1) They don't have the people to do. (No, they don't have a program development group on staff. That would be a pointless distraction from what the company dose) 2) They don't have managers that understand. (It's a paramilitary police force. They'd have to bring in a whole management staff that knows software development) 3) Cost much more.
-
I would say that 1) Any AAA corp would have a software development if no other reason to try to stay on top of Matrix security, is always a threat, and 2) any company that works in security and public safety would need a top notch software house to help protect from the number of Matrix threats out there. Given that one successful hack could cause a city's Gridlink system in a hundred car pile up or override a PanicButton call from a suburban home invasion.
That said, having eyes and ears... and useful commlinks on the ground provides KE's Matrix Overwatch Team useful intel on what's going on. And given that KE got the Seattle contract because Lone Star wasn't doing the job, they can get all the useful PR they want from the camera feeds of KE beat cops arresting gangers and criminals, proving that they are protecting the public.
As for the exact details of the commlinks, an average beat cop or security officer link, it would need to be reliable but mass produced and able to get the job done. Now, it doesn't need to be fancy and it doesn't need to do everything at once. There's nothing wrong with turning off the Scan program to run a Browse for a Data Search and flipping them back when you have the criminal's bio from HQ. Spending around 4-5,000 Y per beat cop may seem like a lot, but since it's mass produced and the software can be copied, the actual price per thousand is significantly less than 5,000,000 Y. And given that one's commlink is just as, if not more, useful than one's sidearm, all cops know to keep their commlink safe.
-
No. This is like saying that it would be cheaper to, rather then buying cars and guns, have the company build it's own factories to produce all the equipment it needs from scratch.
No, its like saying exactly what I said. If KE is developing the software suites to use, there is a good chance they will be used by all officers that are working on Law Enforcement contracts. Assuming this is a ridiculously low number like 10,000 officers, and they were only wanting to be able to run four programs at a time (for instance Weapon Watcher, Noise Analysis, Scan, and Analyze, needing a Response and System of 5 to run without degradation), they would be looking at 4,000„ in hardware for the response upgrade and 2,500„.
Now, lets drop the hardware to like 100„ saying Ares just supplies the parts at cost to its subsidiary (after all it is highly in the corporation's interest to keep its pet in a position of power), we can't drop the system cost because the example completely assumes that Ares has no software development team. That's 10,000 people times 2,600„ for a whopping total of 26,000,000„ to upgrade all of their commlinks. As long as the software budget is under that, KE comes out ahead by having their own designed. 10,000 officers is more than the current SPD has by a long shot, but keep in mind that Seattle in SR includes several of the surrounding cities as districts and is much much more violent. For comparison, the greater New York area has over 35,000 officers sworn in, so 10,000 in the Seattle Sprawl in 2073 is still a rather conservative number.
Now, then, lets say you're paying your programmers 75k a year. You can afford to pay a team of 60 programmers for five years and be under budget (which should be more than enough time). To round this out, Ares already has software development subsidiaries to tap into.
For -anything- else, it's much, much cheaper to buy a licensed copy of otherwise developed software.
Not so, for a lot of other things, then yes it is. If you only need THAT software working by itself. If you need that software to operate side by side with eight other software packages and share data perfectly, then its almost always easier and cheaper in the long run to have your own software designed for you. This is why current corporations...have their programming teams design their software for them rather than just licensing the software. Between the number of licenses needed, the bugs and mishaps with training everyone to use all of the software packages together, and the constant threat of price hikes or a company going under and your software becoming outdated, licensing existing software is usually done by small and/or low budget corporation or corporations that just don't need anything but that one software package.
In SR: Knight Errant, for example, would get software from another Aries company when possible. If they couldn't, they are in business to make money. They'd buy software on the open market rather then do something that 1) They don't have the people to do. (No, they don't have a program development group on staff. That would be a pointless distraction from what the company dose) 2) They don't have managers that understand. (It's a paramilitary police force. They'd have to bring in a whole management staff that knows software development) 3) Cost much more.
Oh most likely they will. I look at Knight Errant as Ares, because lets face it, Knight Errant is an Ares pawn. It always has been. Most likely, a software development subsidiary of Ares designed a large portion of the software, but I would see the software being turned over to Knight Errant for use and Ares fitting the bill for the development. Knight Errant is in a position to keep Ares very happy in Seattle (what's better than being able to instill the fear of god into runners hitting your corp while insuring at the same time that help never arrives on time to your rivals? 8) ). You also have another case of corporate aid here as Knight Errant can easily field/beta test equipment being released by other Ares subsidiaries providing quick and reliable data.
I do disagree with several of your points though.
1.) While not bleeding edge, Knight Errant does have a cutting edge matrix development team oriented primarily toward IC and detection (I believe it was first talked about in the old Corporate Security Handbook). That was back around 2050 or 2055, Knight Errant has kept its elite image, that's its entire purpose. I would assume that they would have a very very large development team. I would also assume this team would be developing the OS and main detection programs (Analysis, Scan) or countermeasure programs (Exploit, Attack, Black Hammer) used by KE officers and spiders. They may or may not be able to handle more software development, but they do exist and I would believe its grown to the point that it can as much as the matrix has intruded on everyday life.
2.) Lone Star may not have managers that understand, Knight Errant is an elite paramilitary police force. With the 2073 matrix being everywhere, Knight Errant managers had damn well better understand about the matrix. If they don't they'll be getting tossed down into the Hard Corps ranks pretty damn fast. Keep in mind the Knight Errant is the spawn of Damien Knight, who is no slouch when it comes to matrix exploitation (how do you think he got the company?). In addition, it doesn't just handle Law Enforcement contracts, and many of its private contracts likely have lots of valuable data stored in the matrix. Knight Errant is supposed to be a one stop shop for security, I would say they already have, and have had since day one, a management team that understands the matrix as well as a set of in between managers that help the matrix guys and physical guys group their data sufficiently. Knight Errant is not a cheap security force. Ares has a cheap security force named Hard Corps. They didn't get a police contract.
3.) The software itself might cost less if bought instead of created, but the cost of upgrading and the software will cost more than just building the software. Not to mention, that by building the software themselves they get to cherry pick features and design it their way rather than having to deal with the decisions of a different developer.
-
KE has an in house cyber-security/investgation division. The difference between a cyber security and investigation group and people that develop and support software full time is massive. At most, they would have a group of software mediation specialist that work to make different bits of equipment and software work together well.
The cost and time lag of developing their own in-house software while paying to build what amounts to a software development company that never sells any products outside the company?
Nope. Never going to happen.
Buying software licenses as cheaply as possible by contracting them from a subsidiary of the same company? Of course. This would NOT be exclusive software however. it would just be, at most, a customized software package including versions of the market available software.
Oh, and no, it wouldn't be free. Asking another division of the company to eat red ink by giving away software licenses wouldn't happen now. In SR, just asking for such a deal would be a good way for a middle manager to take out a hit on you.
In the real world their are open source options for many software packages that have a list cost of 0$ and are -still- more expensive to use then other open market, expensive software because they don't come with support contracts. Developing and supporting software is limited to companies that develop and support software as part of their core business.
The last point you overlooked is that starting a development house to make your own software in another company, when the development will never be anything but red ink, is that you are going to get a really shitty development company. Being the VP in charge of OS development for a company that makes operating systems is great. Being the VP in charge of OS development for a police force is a dead end job with nowhere else to go where you are going to be constantly asked to find ways to do your job more cheaply.
-
The last point you overlooked is that starting a development house to make your own software in another company, when the development will never be anything but red ink, is that you are going to get a really shitty development company. Being the VP in charge of OS development for a company that makes operating systems is great. Being the VP in charge of OS development for a police force is a dead end job with nowhere else to go where you are going to be constantly asked to find ways to do your job more cheaply.
I think you're forgetting the setting. In SR every corp job is a dead end at the top unless you want to pay for an extraction. That's assuming you actually believe this, which I don't. Yes, you'll constantly be asked to do your job cheaper, but that isn't the only thing you'll doing. You'll be constantly having the systems updated. Constantly adding new features to the software to help the company do their job. Constantly streamlining for efficiency. They won't be developing a single OS, two software suites, then quitting. Let's face it, KE is supposed to be the elite of the elite. Law enforcement has constantly been having to upgrade to stay competitive with the criminal element. In 2073, part of that upgrade would be matrix support and supporting programs. These guys would be constantly busy, and KE can afford to pay them well by SR standards.
In the real world their are open source options for many software packages that have a list cost of 0$ and are -still- more expensive to use then other open market, expensive software because they don't come with support contracts. Developing and supporting software is limited to companies that develop and support software as part of their core business.
Again, I suggest you actually look into some of the major companies out there. Is Walmart a software development company? Is Boeing a software development company? How about the U.S. Army? These are three off the top of my head that have a dedicated software development division. Sure, they'll often license some programs from other companies if they don't want to spend the development time on it. When they do this, they are licensing programs for things that aren't vital to their main goals and doesn't have to be secure.
Buying software licenses as cheaply as possible by contracting them from a subsidiary of the same company? Of course. This would NOT be exclusive software however. it would just be, at most, a customized software package including versions of the market available software.
Oh, and no, it wouldn't be free. Asking another division of the company to eat red ink by giving away software licenses wouldn't happen now. In SR, just asking for such a deal would be a good way for a middle manager to take out a hit on you.
Of course it would be exclusive. There are two common ways software is sold: Licenses and Code. Licensing is common to most people, because every piece of software they buy as a single user comes as a license. They don't own the software at all, they just are able to use it through their license (which ever as a programmer I hate the idea of).
Code is how most companies buy software when it is being developed for them. The company is hiring another company to develop software X so they can buy Y licenses. They are contracting another company to develop software X so that they can buy software X. This is almost always done as an exclusive piece of software. Will you see bits of code just like bits in software X surface in other projects? Yes. That's because as humans, once we learn to do something one way, we tend to keep doing it that way.
As far as the free business. I already stated that it would be cheaper in the long run than updated the officer's commlinks. That said, Knight Errant is a subsidiary of Ares that is in a unique position to help its parent company out a lot. I never said that the software development subsidiary would be working for free, I said I could see Ares paying for it. Its not uncommon to see parent corporations paying to help their subsidiaries today. Especially when those subsidiaries are in a place to bring in a lot of revenue, or in Knight Errant's case, hinder rivals.
The cost and time lag of developing their own in-house software while paying to build what amounts to a software development company that never sells any products outside the company?
Nope. Never going to happen.
Happens today, so 62 years in the future, still going to be happening. Software development can take years. It depends on what you're trying to do. It can also take weeks or months depending on what you are trying to do.
Its one of the few fields where throwing a large number of people at the problem actually causes it to take longer. I suggest reading The Mythical Man Month by Fred Brooks if you really don't believe this. Programming is more of an art than a true science, in that everyone does it differently. Sure, you have to use the same rules, but how you lay it out, how you comment it, etc. all changes from programmer to programmer. The more programmers you have working on one project, the more "dialects" of the programming language the team has to deal with as they try to mesh each person's work together.
Many people look at Windows and Mac and how often their OSs release and come to the conclusion, "Oh, that's how long development has to take." Its really not. These OSs (which in SR their is no single company monopoly) are released with several key factors, the most important of which is profit (which of course has nothing to do with the programming side). If Microsoft released a new OS every 6 months, or every year, none of them would make enough profit to cover the development costs.
As an in house development team, KE Software (what I'm going to dub the team for now) would never have to worry about the profit of selling the software. Sure, they'll still have a budget and a deadline to work with, but they can effectively release a new OS every 6 months if it falls within budget, each version streamlining it further with data they get from their officers in the field. Tying into the above point, this is another reason why it isn't a dead end job. How many times do you actually get to sit down and work on a project without worrying about, how are we going to make money off of this, and just being able to make the damn thing better. its a rarity.
As far as KE itself is concerned, they aren't trying to make a profit off of the software development team. It would be seen as just another expense like gas, ammunition, medical insurance, maintenance, etc. If you want to stay on top of the game, there will be expenses. This is exactly how the software development teams are seen at the companies I mentioned above. Software development is about building software, it can be a very profitable industry, but it isn't always done for profit off of the software itself.
KE has an in house cyber-security/investgation division. The difference between a cyber security and investigation group and people that develop and support software full time is massive. At most, they would have a group of software mediation specialist that work to make different bits of equipment and software work together well.
Thing is, they have to have a development team for that cyber-security/investigation division if they want to stay cutting edge. If for nothing else than to develop the software that the security/investigation division uses for security and investigation. An elite corporation will not be using commonly available, out of the box, software for this. If they are, no one will hire them for it, because they can hire Timmy the local college dropout, buy a license of software, and get their security much cheaper. In house development teams are almost always faster at responding and coming up with a solution than going through outside sources.
When you're firewall is breached, you have six clients begging you to fix their systems, and you have no idea what is happening; Do you want to be on hold with SoftyCorp because their Lead Developer is in a meeting, or do you want to have twenty to sixty programmers already working out the solution? On this note, many non-software development companies have had dedicated teams as far back as the 80's, its not a new trend.
-
"Again, I suggest you actually look into some of the major companies out there. Is Walmart a software development company? Is Boeing a software development company? How about the U.S. Army? These are three off the top of my head that have a dedicated software development division. Sure, they'll often license some programs from other companies if they don't want to spend the development time on it. When they do this, they are licensing programs for things that aren't vital to their main goals and doesn't have to be secure."
Walmart use inventory tracking and database software made for them because there no commercial option.Walmart has utterly unique requirements that gave them no choice but to have software developed. They have not and will not develop their own operating system. Your point is invalid.
The US Army is by a massive margin the best funded ground military that has ever existed in the history of humanity. They, again, have requirements for software that are unique and would not exist if they did not develop it. They do not develop operating systems. Your point is invalid.
Bowing has developed software for aerospace applications for the last 60 years. I have no idea why you would think they do not develop software? It's a major part of their business. They use publicly available CAD programs and operating systems. Your point, again, is invalid. It's like remarking that Sony develops software in house.
"Software development can take years. It depends on what you're trying to do. It can also take weeks or months depending on what you are trying to do. "
Programming certain things can be done quickly and efficiently by a small team or even one person. Developing something as complex as an operating system or facial recognition software are not among those things. It takes about 100 man-years of labor to develop a modern operating system, so unless you are very patient and immortal having one person do it really isn't an option.
" An elite corporation will not be using commonly available, out of the box, software for this. If they are, no one will hire them for it, because they can hire Timmy the local college dropout, buy a license of software, and get their security much cheaper."
Just like how none ever hires commercial artist anymore because there are programs for that, and nobody hires sound techs because programs exist for that, and how they had to lay off the last civic engineer because now you can just hire anyone with the right software to do that. I can't believe you believe that.
You don't seem to understand the economic factors involved here. To use a building analogy, this is like saying a small company should construct it's own new office building because they have building maintenance people on staff and that is exactly the same as having a construction company. I don't really think there is any point in continuing this conversation.
-
Wal-mart staffs a software development team in Bentonville, Arkansas as well as one in India. I've toured the one in Arkansas. They don't have the software built for them by another company, they have it built by their software development team. Your exact quote was: "Developing and supporting software is limited to companies that develop and support software as part of their core business."
Walmart's Core business is not software development or support. It's retail. To finish, they're PCs don't use custom OSs because they need them to be as user friendly as possible, but they use a number of handhelds that have had their systems designed in Bentonville.
Likewise, the Army and Boeing are not Software Development or Supporting corporations either, but they do it. Boeing uses some CAD programs that are commonly available, but they also develop and maintain more specialized programs designed specifically for designing ariplanes. It was a great topic of discussion when I was putting in my resume. I'm weird, I like to know what I'll be doing if I get hired at a company. Yes, they've had enough success that they've branched out, but their software development team was originally started for airplanes, not for sale.
Programming certain things can be done quickly and efficiently by a small team or even one person. Developing something as complex as an operating system or facial recognition software are not among those things. It takes about 100 man-years of labor to develop a modern operating system, so unless you are very patient and immortal having one person do it really isn't an option.
It depends entirely on how many features you want it to have and what the target audience is, as well as the language its being developed in, devices its being developed for, and how well you can upgrade it in the future (ie do you make a new OS in four years, or give this one a heavy update?). Modern Operating Systems are designed to be overly user-friendly and do more things than most corporate OSs would need to do (Assuming of course you are referring to windows, linux, and mac OSs). I've seen a PC operating system designed in half a semester by a team of three people as a junior level project. It wasn't pretty, it didn't have any special features, but it was secure and functioning. You give a team of 60 people exactly what you want the system to do (rather than having them try and make it do everything imaginable like modern OSs are made), and it will not take anywhere near 100 man-years to develop.
You don't seem to understand the economic factors involved here. To use a building analogy, this is like saying a small company should construct it's own new office building because they have building maintenance people on staff and that is exactly the same as having a construction company. I don't really think there is any point in continuing this conversation.
I'll have to agree because that is no where near what I've been saying. If you want a good analogy for what I said, why would you hire a private security team to install wal-mart brand cameras around your house and monitor them, when you can buy wal-mart brand cameras around your house and hire the same number of people to watch them, for less? (Damn, now I'm reminded of a Wal-mart commercial)
Knight Errant is an elite company. No one would hire them for cyber-security if they aren't any better than all the cheaper options. This is fairly simple economics here. Being better, when it comes to cyber-security (especially in SR) is all about the software. Without better software, you cannot be much better in the SR system.
The vast majority of major corporations have their own software development division today. Independent design teams find most of their work from smaller companies or individuals that don't have enough need for a design team. Knight Errant is a major corporation 62 years in the future that holds contracts for private security across the world and at least one cannon Law Enforcement contract. They are definitely big enough to back having their own software development team.
-
Anyone can buy a badge, gun, radio, uniform and handcuffs right now too. Yet police departments remain. It's almost like trained professionals with a deep understanding of the business, a powerful network of contacts with cooperation organisations and a legal framework to support it is somehow better then a randomly selected person using the same equipment that anyone could buy on the open market.
I can't believe someone would believe something so wrongheaded. It's like saying there should be no professional artist because anyone can buy Photoshop.
Police work is maybe, being generous, 5% the equipment people have. The rest is training, leadership, communication and cooperation. Give a good cop a 100 year old pistol, change for pay phones, a Pontiac Chieftain black and white from the 50's and a shiny copper badge and he would still be a better cop then a randomly selected individual with all modern bells and whistles.
-
Some people would violently disagree. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
-
Some people would violently disagree. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Really, Xzylvador? Rick Rolling?
-
No internet site is complete without it! And hadn't seen it here yet.
... wonder what the 2070 equivalent would be.
-
No internet site is complete without it! And hadn't seen it here yet.
... wonder what the 2070 equivalent would be.
'Barry Mana'-ing (Attitude, p. 49)
-
Anyone can buy a badge, gun, radio, uniform and handcuffs right now too. Yet police departments remain. It's almost like trained professionals with a deep understanding of the business, a powerful network of contacts with cooperation organisations and a legal framework to support it is somehow better then a randomly selected person using the same equipment that anyone could buy on the open market.
There are other cyber-security corporations out there. Knight Errant is elite and expensive. Knight Errant isn't the only one with a legal framework, an understanding of the business, or contacts. The problem here is that in SR computer "skill" is half skill and half program. How is Knight-Errant elite, or better, if they're only marginally better than a competent company? Even at an average skill of 5 instead of 3, without better programs, that's not even an hit on average without better software as well. Meaning that it wouldn't even be a noticeable effect for most people.
I can't believe someone would believe something so wrongheaded. It's like saying there should be no professional artist because anyone can buy Photoshop.
No, its like saying if X is doing the same exact job as Y, why do I consider Y more elite than X? Why do I pay Y more than X? If Y has much greater resources, why isn't Y putting some of them back into its business to stay ahead of the game? This is exactly the kind of thing you see when artists start demanding too much money and their are unheard of artists doing the same level of artwork. Sure, some past clients may still work with the old artist for friendship or just because he's proven reliable, but most newer clients are going to find someone cheaper doing the same grade of work.
Police work is maybe, being generous, 5% the equipment people have. The rest is training, leadership, communication and cooperation. Give a good cop a 100 year old pistol, change for pay phones, a Pontiac Chieftain black and white from the 50's and a shiny copper badge and he would still be a better cop then a randomly selected individual with all modern bells and whistles.
And cyber-security is not. Cyber-security is very much about the tools at your disposal. Then again, 62 years in the future with AR, I don't really see just a pistol, phone and cruiser being enough to keep an officer in the game either. Police adapt just as much as everyone else in the world. There is a reason they wear vests now, there is a reason they aren't standard issued .38s anymore, there is a reason most of them are taught basic computer skills these days. An elite officer in 2073 had damn well better have more than a gun, a badge, and a cruiser or they're going to be way behind the curve and KE won't be holding that contract for long.
-
I would have to agree that even the most basic beat cop would have to have some training in computers, if for just the two following reasons.
1) Data Search for all the times that they have to search someone's SIN, facial recognition, location or news.
2) Electronic Warfare for using the Scan programs to find people using commlinks in Hidden Mode, which is against the law in most areas.
3) Computer for any editing / updating of people's records, writing tickets, etc.
That said, I can believe that most cops don't need the other computer skills (Software, Hardware, Hacking, Cybercombat), so it doesn't pay to have skill groups (efficiency of Karma is only useful if 3+ skills in a group are useful) and even then, they wouldn't have a lot in those skills (I would say 2 in each). The programs they use would be of great help, based on what Knight Errant (or appropriate Ares subsidiary) would get in bulk.
Looking at it from just a personal cost standpoint, an 'average' commlink (by the numbers) for a cop would be:
Transys Avalon (Response: 3, Signal: 3) with Iris Orb OS (Firewall: 3, System: 3) = 2,250 Y
Basic+ Package (Analyze: 3, Browse: 3, Command: 1, Edit: 3) = 400 Y
Encrypt 3: = 150 Y
Scan 3: = 150 Y
AR Gloves = 250 Y
Biometric Reader (I prefer Voice Print) = 200Y
Glasses (2) w/ Image Link & Smartlink = 575Y
SubVoc Mic = 50Y
Earbuds (1) = 10 Y
Total: 4,035Y
4,035Y is not a lot of money for a typical character build. And even though you could only have 2 programs running without the Response dropping, you can have all 6 programs running without the commlink crashing. The Response for this kind of commlink isn't really that important since these people are not going VR or rigging with these commlinks and Response reduction does not affect the basic Program + Skill use.
-
Bear in mind that only the least educated people don't have any skill whatsoever with computers (And Non-Metahuman Sentients, but slot them!). At the very least, they know standardized matrix iconography to operate things and get a spell-and-speak option going for the stuff they can't read even if illiterate (Which is increasing more and more even amongst the remains of the middle class.).
-
Yes, but I always thought that the main difference between Lone Star and Knight Errant was that Knight Errant gets the toys and the training to use them. Really, training to get that one in Computer, Data Search, and Electronic Warfare wouldn't be that hard. An AR tutorial that has to be passed/recertified every X months should be able to do more than enough. And of course, if the officer's are going into a situation, knowing ahead of time they'll be using the skills, they can always get ride-on-decker assistance from the precinct or an agent if that's not available.
-
Lone Star gets better training on beating a person their rights, however. ;D
-
Well, depends on their status and metahuman species.
Lone Star is pretty big on the downtrodden and metahuman beating. Knight Errant has always been an equal opportunity brutalizer. ;D But yes, Lone Star training teaches them to read rights during the beating rather than after.
-
One of these days, I really want to put together a batch of "Generic NPCs with Decks" ... cops, script kiddies, hack-ganger, generic suburban citizen, sysop, and so on. I've always had weakness for the Matrix and the related areas, even if no game master, anywhere, allowed a PC decker in the first three editions.
Alas, alas.
As for the officers, recall that there's a tightrope being walked, where "Good enough to do the job" and "Good enough to do what I want it to do" run headlong against "How much will this cost?" and "Remember, we have to outfit a thousand guys with the same setup."
Commlink by committee.
-
For regular, unamed NPC I use level 2 devices (all ratings are 2).
For professional, like lone star, I increase the level to 3.
Most of the time I use levels 4-5 for specific NPC and locations where security is critical.
-
For regular, unamed NPC I use level 2 devices (all ratings are 2).
For professional, like lone star, I increase the level to 3.
Most of the time I use levels 4-5 for specific NPC and locations where security is critical.
So would you say Commlink = Professional Level, basically?
Maybe PL+2 for those that are the "Hacker" of the group?
-
by "professional", I don't mean "expert", just professional.
When you look and the
- Meta Link, CMT cip and Sony emperor commlink,
- Vector Xim, Redcap Nix, Renraku Ichi OS
they mainly have ratings below 3.
I mostly use those complinks and OS for the average people of the street.
But in order to "simplify" the game I put all ratings at 1 or 2 depending of the situation
-
I remember reading something a long time ago about commlinks with specific hardware that gave them access to Company networks rather than relying on software or passwords. Anybody have any idea what the hell I'm talking about?
-
I remember reading something a long time ago about commlinks with specific hardware that gave them access to Company networks rather than relying on software or passwords. Anybody have any idea what the hell I'm talking about?
Proprietary Software/Hardware systems. You don't have it, the system goes, "Nah, I don't like you, zero access allowed." and disconnects any attempt at accessing them ever again.
Really sucks when you're doing it in VR, as you get a nasty case of Dumpshock.
-
I knew it existed. I had my comm shot up in a run and there was some poor schmuck who took a bullet and some glass to his face. So I politely jacked out his skull and stole his commlink. Didn't realize he was some corp secretary and my gm tried to explain it to me but me not being a hacker went "Yeah whatever, new commlink."
Ah, the days of my ignorance and youth.
-
One of these days, I really want to put together a batch of "Generic NPCs with Decks" ... cops, script kiddies, hack-ganger, generic suburban citizen, sysop, and so on.
Yes please!
Today's a good day.
Yesterday was great too..