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[5E] Full Body Prothesis

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HaikenEdge

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« on: <09-10-15/1151:59> »
Do full body prosthesis exist in 5E? I know you can your limbs replaced piecemeal (skull, torso, arms and legs cyberlimbs), but is there any rules on the reverse happening, where there's first a full body prosthesis chassis, and then the metahuman organs are fitted into said chassis?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #1 on: <09-10-15/1217:41> »
That's bordering on cyberzombiedom.
Playability > verisimilitude.

HaikenEdge

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« Reply #2 on: <09-10-15/1220:28> »
As a new player, I have to ask, "What are cyberzombies, and where can I read about them in the rule books?"

Medicineman

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« Reply #3 on: <09-10-15/1221:18> »
You could make a full Body Cybersuite using the Rules from Chromeflesh

Cyberzombies are NPCs who have so much 'ware into them that their Essence is minus.
They're kept alive by a magic Ritual  and they emit a negative Backgroundcount by themselves
They appeared first in SR2 (IIRC) but most Cybercombies as Enemies were in SR3 Modules.
Since they're strict NPCs a GM can give them as much 'ware as he wants

(  watch the second Robocop Movie to get an Idea what it is about)

with a now longer Dance
Medicineman
« Last Edit: <09-10-15/1227:12> by Medicineman »
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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #4 on: <09-10-15/1232:39> »
The cyberzombie mission in Shadowrun: Dragonfall was pretty fun.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Novocrane

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« Reply #5 on: <09-10-15/1445:00> »
That's bordering on cyberzombiedom.
In the sense that a cyberzombie might have it, that's partially true, but you aren't going to slip past the "I had dark and evil magic cast on me during surgery" line by accident. Not by their accident, at least.

An Adept and Burnout's way (Street Grimoire), custom Cybersuite (Lockdown), Augmentation bundle (Chrome Flesh), alpha grade, adapsin, the biocompatibility quality, or any combination thereof will make a full body replacement possible Essence-ways. Some will even be viable. Restricted Gear will ignore the availability on one item (ie; the Cyberskull), or the whole Augmentation Bundle.
« Last Edit: <09-10-15/1446:35> by Novocrane »

ProfGast

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« Reply #6 on: <09-10-15/1648:42> »
The general problem with full body prosthesis in Shadowrun is that, inherent to the system is the idea that at some point the soul recognizes that the holistic connection to the body is broken and the being perishes.

A cyberzombie traditionally requires highly advanced labs (delta grade usually) as well as specialized implants, drug cocktails and magical rituals which trick the soul into staying with the body.  Traditionally speaking even with all of that the Cyberzombie doesn't last long.  IMO the best book addressing it is actually Cybertechnology (The Hatchetmand stuff is some of my all-time favorite writing)

The one of the last chapters of Chrome Flesh has a brief fic about a character who had "mystical runes" etched into his bones that let him exceed the essence limit, which may be a type of cyberzombie.

As for a full-body replacement, the only thing I've seen close for it is the Jar-head cyborgs from 4E's Augmentation.  The premise was child-brains in a cocktail of drugs used as human-shaped drone pilots... but I never saw the concept revisited and the whole robot-human-singularity stuff doesn't jive really that well with about half of Shadowrun lore.  Not that Dr. Racter of SR:HK or some writers won't try to push it, it's just... difficult.
« Last Edit: <09-11-15/0008:47> by ProfGast »

Novocrane

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« Reply #7 on: <09-10-15/1708:27> »
Quote
The general problem with full body prosthesis in Shadowrun [...]
The death problem of standard grade fbp isn't much of a problem, given the numerous ways of working around the high essence cost.

Reaver

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« Reply #8 on: <09-10-15/1713:01> »
As I recall, the jar-heads only had a lifespan of a few weeks to a few months before they suffered a psyhotic break. Killing themselves and everyone around them....

So THAT could be why they don't get much mention in 5e...
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Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #9 on: <09-10-15/1730:09> »
I thought the vat-grown jar heads got a bit longer than a few months, but yeah, they finally cracked as well.
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

Turned in Toxshaman for Ĩ1 million/4 once.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #10 on: <09-10-15/1938:21> »
The issue is that a full body replacement is done in 6 stages at 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1.5 + 0.75 totaling in at 6.25 Essence. Things get even worse if you want to go something more animalistic/anthropomorphic and start wanting to add a tail (0.25 Essence) and modifying the legs to be Digigrade which adds 0.25 to the cost of each leg. Throwing all that together you're hitting 7 Essence. Plus you'd possibly also want Cybereyes/ears to fill out the look.

Things start to get a little better if you're Biocompatible. 1.125 + 1.125 + 0.9 + 0.9 + 1.35 + 0.675 0.225 is still 6.3 Essence for an athro body. But a normal full body is 5.625 with just a 5 point quality. You're still going to need Restricted gear for the Skull and your Torso will be limited to Agi/Str 3/3 and forget about any bulk modification.

If you do want an anthro look, best bet is probably the EVO Freak and Inhuman Cybersuits from Lockdown... these are also the closet there is to an 'Official' full body replacement, even if some of the cyberlimbs are only partial to somewhat tame the Essence costs.

And yes I know the Anthro stuff wasn't asked about... was just a thought experiment running around in my head earlier so decided to crunch the numbers while I was number crunching anyway.
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HaikenEdge

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« Reply #11 on: <09-10-15/1941:09> »
So, the short answer is, there's no one-piece full body prosthesis, just replacing your parts one at a time. Good to know.

Finstersang

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« Reply #12 on: <09-10-15/2049:46> »
The long answer: There are rules for Full Body Cyborgs in SR4, and there were also rules for Cyberzombies which are a completely different breed auf Hardcore Augmentation craziness.
Both are at best Veteran-level treatments for PC and in fact they are much more suitable for NPC. Especially Cyberzombies made great Bosses :P

Full Body Cyborgs are commonly called "Jarheads", because thatīs what they are: Nothing more than a living human Brain in a Jar with lots of connectors and mostly hooked up to a robotic frame. Rules-wise, a Jarhead is played somewhat like a Rigger that is riding his own body. The brain usually has 0.1 only Essence left, but thatīs not much of problem, since itīs pretty secured against attacks and provided with most headware augmentations. Then again, decent Drone Bodies that could mimic a human being were freakishly expensive. But the biggest catch: unless youīre a vat-grown brain designed and indoctrinated for being (mis)used as a Jarhead, this treatment turns most people insane. They rely on heavy medication and maintenance to stay sane and alive. So yeah, you would mostly find them in the form of robocop-style superweapon NPCs controlled by the Megacorps.

The same goes for Cyberzombies, which are yet more twisted: These are metahuman beings augmented far beyond their natural limits, so far that they even have negative Essence values. Normally you would die when your Essence drops to zero or below, but when a Cyberzombie is created (which needs a deltaware clinic and lots of specialized personnel), a highly initiated Mage follows your soul into the metaplanes of death, tears it back and magically chains it to your body. This makes you an Dual Natured entity and a blight in astral space. Your basically carry your own background count with you :P
 
In Short: While a Cyborg is a human brain trapped in an artificial body, a Cyberzombie is a human soul chained to its own overaugmented body. Both ways are hardcore NPC stuff and will likely turn
your PC insane. Sadly, no rules for them in Chrome Flesh :/ 
« Last Edit: <09-10-15/2057:38> by Finstersang »

Novocrane

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« Reply #13 on: <09-10-15/2054:00> »
It doesn't matter a great deal how long we were told brain jar cyborgs lasted in 4e, or what effects were listed. The info was outdated.
Quote
[...] MCT was this far along when the Otomo started showing up [...] (ie; all the info in Augmentation)

Ever since MCT began internally deploying their anthropomorphic Otomo drones back in ’65 [...]

So, the short answer is, there's no one-piece full body prosthesis, just replacing your parts one at a time. Good to know.
You can purchase four limbs, a torso, and skull as part of an augmentation bundle, which is a complete package, or if your GM puts the numbers together a cybersuite. (which is an indivisible unit with zero redundancy)

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #14 on: <09-10-15/2110:45> »
Was just thinking that if you did this with Synthetic Limbs, then gave all of them Improved Synthskin, even at just Rating 1, it would really give you a character full of surprises.
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