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SR6 - Statuses questions

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ZeroSum

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« on: <10-03-19/0928:17> »
Status effects in general is an inclusion I think is interesting, but there seem to be some inconsistencies where implementation is concerned.

For example; Stun Grenades apply three statuses but list no duration:
Quote from: SR6 p.263
Often called flash-bangs, these grenades explode to create a bright, loud, shocking blast that stuns and staggers anyone in their range. Along with the damage, those in the Blast of a Stun grenade suffer the Blinded I, Deafened I, and Dazed Status Effect.

Each of those status effects have no specific duration listed, for example:
Quote from: SR6 p.50, Dazed
One too many thumps to the head, or maybe the solar plexus, leaves the character woozy and unable to act with their normal alacrity. The character reduces their Initiative Score by –4, and they cannot gain or spend Edge (but they can burn Edge) as long as they have this Status.

The Statuses paragraph itself does not specify a default duration:
Quote from: SR6 p.49
The duration of a status is typically described with the spell, toxin, or other effect that causes the status. Some statuses can be canceled by others (for example, the Chilled status cancels the Burning status); those effects are noted in the description of each status.

Is it assumed that the effect status is gone after the combat round in which it was applied? 5 combat round? 10-Body? I can't seem to find anything that really deals with this.

Some statuses have multiple levels, but I am unclear on how some of them are applied? While Blinded III can be applied by a Flash-pak at ground zero range, for example, Deafened II and III seem to have no such mention. Is this just made available for future publications, perhaps?

Finally, several statuses have a # option, such as "Burning #". I am unclear on how you determine the number in certain cases, like being hit by a flamethrower or a fire spirit's elemental attack or engulf ability.

The status reads:
Quote
The Burning status is the result of being hit with a flame-based attack. Once the initial blow has done its damage, you have to deal with the continuing heat and flames, and the parts of yourself that may be on fire.
The status should be noted with a number that indicates the amount of Physical damage the character must resist each round while the status exists

Then, from the Combat Options section we know that:
Quote
Once you’re hit by an attack that involves fire, the fire ignites flammable objects, including you. This effect means the fire burns for several rounds after the first. Taking damage from an attack with a Fire damage type inflicts the Burning status.
Gamemaster note: The damage and duration are subject to your discretion if the target has some mitigating circumstance. If they’re covered in oil or wearing a lot of loose-fitting cloth, it may last longer, cause more damage, or require a higher threshold to extinguish.

However, the Flamestrike and Fireball spells (page 133) state that:
Quote
Both spells do Fire elemental damage (p. 110) and impose the Burning status (p. 51) with a rating equal to net hits on the Spellcasting test.

Incidentally, the Elemental Attack critter power also does not state what rating of the status is applied.

Would a logical conclusion be that the DV of the attack itself is the rating of the Burning status that is inflicted?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <10-03-19/1521:55> »
Since stun grenades do not list a duration, I lean towards 'encounter' for the duration.

With Deafened 2+, just assume there could be something else later on yes.

Burning # and such I can't find a thing. =/ Here's hoping the errata document will have more. If you need a number now, just go with 3P or Force/2.
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CigarSmoker

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« Reply #2 on: <10-03-19/1550:08> »
You can end Burning early with Reaction+Intuition(2) (its in the description) so it doesnt matter much how long it holds, that threshold is not hard. As long as fire has Oxygen, Material, Heat  it keeps burning. So theres no problem with the no duration.

Generally those Statuses wont work without the GM making much up. From a realism point of view.

-I could write a lot about Acids/Bases now and how dangerous they are. But i write as much: I dont advice anyone to use water on an unknown acid/base burn like its written in the Core Rules. The rules say p52 Corrosive #  Acids, bases, and other caustics eat into your flesh and don’t stop.[...]
if you want realism at your table use well known Acids you know from Chemistry at school and let them stop after a reasonable amout of time.

-Chilled should end after a few minutes or in case of a Troll with Str 14 probably in seconds when he makes a short workout ...

Edit:
Deafened III would be Cyberears package (Soundlink included!) being wireless and then bricked by a Hacker :)
« Last Edit: <10-03-19/1602:58> by CigarSmoker »

Typhus

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« Reply #3 on: <10-03-19/1625:17> »
Any word on whether the durations or resolutions of such things will be covered in an upcoming errata?  Was this even on a radar yet?

Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: <10-03-19/1645:06> »
Not sure duration should be included in the status effect at all to begin with. If there is a duration as you apply a status effect it should perhaps be included in the spell or weapon or gear that applied the effect.

You will for example be Blinded III as long as you cannot see. If you cannot see because it is totally dark then it will last until someone bring a light source or you turn on thermographic vision etc. If you are outdoors without enough cloths then you will be chilled until you can get somewhere warm. If you are set on fire then you will burn until you put out the fire (rolling on the ground, someone covering you in a blanket, exposed to a chill status effect etc). The duration is often not directly tied to the effect it self, but rather the circumstances around the effect.

You can apply common sense in almost all of the cases.

ZeroSum

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« Reply #5 on: <10-03-19/1752:36> »
@Michael Chandra
Makes sense. Thanks!

@CigarSmoker
While you can end burning early, I still need to know what DV to resist and how long to roll for if my PC or an NPC fails. There are several ways to apply Burning in CRB, and yet only one of them list what the # should be. A simple guideline such as what Michael Chandra suggests would be useful to have in the rules.

Corrosive; it's obviously abstracted. I could write volumes on the firearms chapter if we were to look at it from a real-world perspective, but I'm happy to abstract it for the purposes of a game system.

Chilled; hypothermia can be a real killer. I've spent a few days outside in -40C, and it took days before I felt properly warm again. Again, this is a game system and some abstraction is needed, but just like burning it would be useful if spells and abilities that apply this Status would give even a simple reference (such as fixed DV or a variable like F/2 like Michael suggested)

Fair point about Deafened; I would also suggest that a someone with active hearing enhancement exposed to a flashbang could be imposed a -6 penalty, or Deafened II status.

@Typhus
No idea, sorry.

@Xenon
I agree, the status effect does not need to list duration, and the book even refers to the source of the status as the location where duration would be defined. It just seems like this got lost somewhere on the editing floor; for example, Fireball has a defined #, while Elemental Attack does not.

Just out of curiosity, what common sense numbers would you apply to the above examples where no specific means to end it exists, such as Zapped?

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <10-03-19/1926:11> »
Just out of curiosity, what common sense numbers would you apply to the above examples where no specific means to end it exists, such as Zapped?
If I am for example hit by electricity damage (and actually take at least one box damage from the attack) then I would gain the Zapped status for 2 combat turns or so.

There might be other sources that also inflict Zapped status (for example a Lightning Ball spell where the Zapped status duration could be linked to net hits or something).

My point is that this duration should not be listed under Zapped as a status effect. It should instead be listed under Electricity as a damage type (or under the Lighting Ball spell).

If at all. I think it is perfectly fine for the GM to just wing it.
« Last Edit: <10-03-19/1933:24> by Xenon »

ZeroSum

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« Reply #7 on: <10-03-19/2001:15> »
I definitely agree that status duration should be listed under the source causing it.

I do think some rough guidelines for new GMs would be good. Like you said, net hits on an attack, or Force of the creature using a power, for example.

I don't think everything needs to be spelled out, but guidance, especially for people new to the setting, would make the ruleset a lot more streamlined.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #8 on: <10-03-19/2007:20> »
I also agree the proper place for a duration is in the entry for the effect causing the status in the first place.

Of course, that being said it's often not there, either.  GM common sense is going to have to be applied.  The more narrative-focused games already inherently rely upon this, and this is 6we moreso than previous editions.

In situations where there are no durations given, some can be inferred.  For example, chilled with no duration? Presumably, if you bundle up and sit inside a running vehicle with the heater on for a few minutes you probably aren't chilled anymore.  You got Wet?  We really, really don't need a rule calling out how long it takes for Wet to expire.  It's called drying off, and we do it all the time in real life.  That can serve as a guideline :D
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #9 on: <10-03-19/2014:50> »
Also this:

SR6 p. 109 Electricity
If a character shakes off the damage, they’re all good, but if they suffer even a single box, the character gets the Zapped status for 2 combat rounds.

SR6 p. 133 Lighting Bolt / Ball
Both spells do Electricity elemental damage (p. 109), imposing the Zapped status (p. 53) for a number of turns equal to net hits.

SR6 p. 133 Ice Spear / Storm
These spells blast targets with freezing cold, doing Cold elemental damage (p. 110) along with the normal damage and imposing the Chilled status (p. 51) for a number of combat rounds equal to net hits on the Spellcasting test.

SR6 p. 133 Flamestirke / Fireball
Both spells do Fire elemental damage (p. 110) and impose the Burning status (p. 51) with a rating equal to net hits on the Spellcasting test.

ZeroSum

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« Reply #10 on: <10-03-19/2040:20> »
@SSDR
Again, I'm not exactly asking for four pages on how to dry off, just some generic guidelines for powers or effects that do not mention duration

@Xenon
And I could quote the Elemental Attack and Engulf powers, the Combat chapter on elemental damage, and likely others, that do not mention this. Your example applies to spells; it would be easy enough to apply those same effects to other sources, but for some reason the authors / editors chose not to.

It's almost like spells were specifically written with duration in mind, while most of the rest of the book was not.