[Zilfer]

Curiously want to make sure I know this better than player. Question came up as to why not being able to shoot the gun multiple times. (I'm guessing you can't Semi Auto Burst) with a ruger super warhawk right? When I said it was the way it was trying to chamber taking a long time, he wasn't sure why it would since most guns (he's military I am not mind you and I told him he'd have to shelve some of his real life training for this fantasy game and just 'roll with it').

I wanted to equate to a Deagle however I realized that you could still fire that pretty quickly if you were trained and had a good arm for it. (might not be too accurate though) His reasoning is most pistols automatically shift the next shot in to fire as the other one goes out. (not a weapons expert here but unless it's a grenade launcher I have a hard time picturing the round rotating into shot. I mean I see it with larger weapons movies. (ha! Movies! Like those are based in reality right? xD)

Basically can someone give me a run down whether or not SS can fire multiple bullets in an action?

To save time/avoid argument/keep the game running smoothly like I knew what I was doing I just told him he could have it modded to be SA and just charged him 3,000 which he was happy to pay to avoid hurting his brain too. xD

[Kincaid]

RAW, single shot weapons cannot fire multiple times in a single initiative pass.  There's another thread going on right now about this very subject, actually.  In theory, all of this was balanced because SS weapons never had progressive recoil, while SA weapons did, but then the recoil errata came out, and I'm not exactly sure what the point of SS weapons is now.

The next book due out is _Run & Gun_ and most people expect there will be some sort of gun mod option to add firing modes, so I wouldn't be surprised to see SA revolvers.

[Redwulfe]

In run and gun there is also an optional rule that removes the single attack per action phase rule. This makes the ss weapon a bit better as it benefits from its lack of progressive recoil.

Red

[Reaver]

The most simplest answer for your buddy is that "the Ruger is a Single Action Revolver, requiring you to pull the trigger back between each shot, thus having to re-aligning your barrel with the target after cocking it, all of with slows you down a lot compared to a double action-Semi-automatic."


The game mechanics answer I imagine is a combination of Flavor and Balance.

[Michael Chandra]

If you go with a useful version of Accumulative Recoil, rather than the errata version, then SS is real nice.

[Xenon]

Basically can someone give me a run down whether or not SS can fire multiple bullets in an action?

SS weapons can not be used to fire more than one arrow, bullet, grenade, beam or missile in a simple action unless otherwise noted.


There is a SS mode revolver (Taurus Omni-6) that can be loaded with both Light Pistol Ammo and Heavy Pistol Ammo.
- With Heavy Pistol Ammo it will use Single Shot mode
(...which mean it can fire 1 bullet in a simple action)
- With Light Pistol Ammo it will use Semi-Automatic mode
(...which mean it can fire 1 bullet in a simple action or 3 bullets in a complex action)


There is also a SS mode double barrel shotgun (PJSS Model 55) that can fire one barrel in a simple action
...or both barrels at once in a simple action (similar to a three bullet burst - using the Not Enough Bullets rule).

[Zilfer]

Thanks for the responses guys!

[JimmyCrisis]

It is reasonable to say that certain single shot weapons have such heavy recoil that they must be realigned with each shot.  The Ruger Superwarhawk is one of them.  Being an Alaskan hiker and hunter, I'm somewhat familiar with the S&W-629 44 Magnum revolver.  While it is totally possible to shoot all six rounds in a 44 magnum revolver in one initiative pass (1 second if you're fast as greased lightning, 3 is you're slow as molasses), only the first would be in the ballpark of the target.  Similarly, each of the SS weapons have some intrinsic quality that needs to be reset after firing.  Pump action shotguns and bolt action rifles, for instance.

Now, there are exceptional individuals who can shoot such a weapon accurately faster than a semi or fully automatic equivalent can fire.  Those individuals are the exception, not the rule, and tend to have skill ratings out of grasp of the average shadowrunner (in the 8-12 plus specialization range).  I would say that the GM should have free reign to houserule such circumstances if they choose, but it's not really in line with the very average people that shadowrunners tend to be and tend to run into. 

Custom qualities as the situation warrants, perhaps?

[Namikaze]

Jimmy, thank you for sharing your experiences with heavy-caliber revolvers.  I think it sheds light on the overall topic in a good way.  You also brought up custom qualities for exceptionally high skill ratings.  I like this idea, and we'll see what happens with Run & Gun.  In previous editions, there was a Martial Arts quality that allowed you to buy special maneuvers for fighting in melee combat.  I'd like to see if Run & Gun offers something similar with ranged combat as well.  At the least, it should show us a good framework for building such maneuvers as house rules if nothing else.

[jim1701]

The .45 has some pretty serious kick at least on the par with a .357 revolver.  The main difference in this regard between a revolver and a semi-automatic is the way the hammer is cocked.  Back in the day revolvers were originally single action which meant to fire it you first had to cock the hammer with your thumb (which also advanced the cylinder) then pull the trigger to fire.  I seem to remember reading an article that there were some models where you had a double trigger (one to cock the hammer and one to fire the gun) and models that had you pull the trigger twice to cock and fire.  Then Colt invented the double action revolver we all know and love today.  It allowed the firer to cock and fire the weapon with one pull of the trigger (hence double action.)  You can still, of course, cock the hammer ahead of time and then pull the trigger to fire if desired.  But the hammer has to be cocked every time you fire in one of these two fashions. 

The semi-auto on the other hand is fired in much the same way the very first time you pull the trigger in an action.  You either cock the hammer ahead of time or it is coked as a part of the trigger pull action.  After that, however, the action of the slide will cock the hammer for the next shot as it also ejects the round just fired.  This greatly reduces the force required by the firer to exert on the trigger to fire the next shot which also means you can fire faster without worrying about excessive trigger pull throwing off your aim. 

[WellsIDidIt]

I'm just going to toss out that recoil is not solely a factor of the caliber. Each weapon has vastly different recoil. My little Ruger SP 101 (.357) kicks less than most 9mm Glocks. A full frame, full weight revolver will usually have much less kick than a small frame or snubnose revolver, simply because of the weight. A few guns use internal gimmicks to reduce recoil. I know the new glocks supposedly have a new type of recoil spring. Overall, it just comes down to weight for the most part and the direction the recoil is generated (different guns kick different ways).

That said, also remember that the powder is every bit as important as the actual bullet size. A .357 Magnum is actually only a tiny smidge bigger than a 9mm (.355 bullet diameter), and is the same size as a .38 Special (the brass is longer to prevent accidentally mixing the two up, but the bullet diameter is the same).

However, caliber isn't an issue in SR, because all guns of a class fire the same caliber ammunition. So the Warhawk is firing the same bullets the Predator does.

[Xenon]

Taurus Omni-6 is a Revolver where it (caliber the power of the round - the increased recoil) seem to make a difference....

Load it with Light Pistol Ammo and you can fire it once as a simple action or 3 times as a complex.
Load it with Heavy Pistol Ammo and you can only fire it once as a simple action.


Ruger Super Warhawk is a Revolver loaded with Heavy Pistol ammo and can only fire once as a simple action...

[WellsIDidIt]

Doubtful that it's actually caliber making the difference. If it were caliber (diameter of the barrel's bore), then it would have to have barrel and cylinder swaps to switch between light and heavy pistol ammo.

Instead, it implies that heavy pistol and light pistol ammo are the same caliber with a different amount of powder behind the bullet (like the .357 and .38 special cartridges).

In real life you can actually load a .357 Magnum revolver with .38 special. Same caliber, different powder.

[Xenon]

caliber the power of the round / the increased recoil


Better?

[RHat]

Curiously want to make sure I know this better than player. Question came up as to why not being able to shoot the gun multiple times. (I'm guessing you can't Semi Auto Burst) with a ruger super warhawk right? When I said it was the way it was trying to chamber taking a long time, he wasn't sure why it would since most guns (he's military I am not mind you and I told him he'd have to shelve some of his real life training for this fantasy game and just 'roll with it').

I wanted to equate to a Deagle however I realized that you could still fire that pretty quickly if you were trained and had a good arm for it. (might not be too accurate though) His reasoning is most pistols automatically shift the next shot in to fire as the other one goes out. (not a weapons expert here but unless it's a grenade launcher I have a hard time picturing the round rotating into shot. I mean I see it with larger weapons movies. (ha! Movies! Like those are based in reality right? xD)

Basically can someone give me a run down whether or not SS can fire multiple bullets in an action?

To save time/avoid argument/keep the game running smoothly like I knew what I was doing I just told him he could have it modded to be SA and just charged him 3,000 which he was happy to pay to avoid hurting his brain too. xD

Just tell him that SS revolvers, stock, are single action - this means that unlike a semi-automatic pistol or a double-action revolver, you can't just repeatedly squeeze the trigger; you have to pull the hammer back first.  SS rifles are similar, using an action that requires manual intervention before you can fire them again.