[ZombieAcePilot]

On pg 313 it states, "You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see." The only example of Assensing in use I have seen is listed as Assensing + Intuition [Astral] simple test. So by question is this:

When using assensing against a target hiding from you, is the test opposed by the person hiding? Otherwise this seems like a wonderful way 5th ed has screwed every attempt to infiltrate with a mage on site.

[Shade]

I could definitely see someone trying to use that interpretation but I would suggest that the rules for Using Stealth Skills on pg. 136 override them. Just replace the perception with Assensing,

[Reaver]

stealth is effective Vs assensing.

the art of hiding is about not being seen by taking advantage of line of sight, shadows and evasion techniques. all these work VS a mage assensing an area....

where  you run into problems is you add in technology to the mix. Things like stealth suits or ruthenium coating do noting against a mage as the mage is not viewing the natural world and neither obscures an astral signature.

[Shade]

Just to be nitpicky, but hiding in shadow would be meaningless when translated to the astral world. In fact, an aura in an area that was devoid of other astral visuals would be MORE obvious, not less obvious. I sometimes use modifiers in situations like that. That kind of stealth would be a bonus to the guy in Astral. Meanwhile, if you are hiding in a forest, brush, or any other living cover...I usually heavily penalize the guy in Astral.

[ZombieAcePilot]

Does anyone else think of astral and think about the alien sniper rifles from perfect dark that could see and shoot through walls? Its that kind of BS.

I think the truth of it is closer to batman pulling a vanishing act on superman. If you look at the power list of super you know its BS that batman could pull it off.... but he does. Why? Because it makes for good story. I don't know if the rules support it or not, but I don't support letting mages, techno's, hackers, or any others get free sight on a hiding infiltrator.

[Reaver]

Does anyone else think of astral and think about the alien sniper rifles from perfect dark that could see and shoot through walls? Its that kind of BS.

I think the truth of it is closer to batman pulling a vanishing act on superman. If you look at the power list of super you know its BS that batman could pull it off.... but he does. Why? Because it makes for good story. I don't know if the rules support it or not, but I don't support letting mages, techno's, hackers, or any others get free sight on a hiding infiltrator.

they don't.

it's a test between the infiltrator's stealth VS the mages assensing. just remember to remove technological aids that don't apply.

[D Prime]

My GM did this to me. I was hiding with a sniper rifle, and he declared that an astrally-projecting mage automatically saw me (I did not get to roll Sneak or anything), told a rigger where I was, and had a drone shoot me (I did not get to roll Perception to notice the drone, nor did I get to roll Sneak against it). I had invested heavily in Sneak, and it didn't matter in the slightest. My new character has no ranks in Sneak, because honestly, what's the point?

[artent]

I'd speak to your gm about it...not at the table.   Defending against astral scouting is an important part of the planning phase, but it shouldn't be impossible.

[markelphoenix]

My GM did this to me. I was hiding with a sniper rifle, and he declared that an astrally-projecting mage automatically saw me (I did not get to roll Sneak or anything), told a rigger where I was, and had a drone shoot me (I did not get to roll Perception to notice the drone, nor did I get to roll Sneak against it). I had invested heavily in Sneak, and it didn't matter in the slightest. My new character has no ranks in Sneak, because honestly, what's the point?

Not a huge fan of that....

I mean, the way I look at it, someone Astrally Perceiving is just as 'aware' as people looking around with vision mods, as in, they still would have to do a perception check to 'notice' someone that is stealthing in to their field of view. Especially being that stealth is an abstraction of the character knowing how to be 'stealthy' and out of notice by the world (Ergo, he would know tricks of the trade of hiding near plants/bushes, or anything with life a source, etc.)...just seems cheap.

[Unahim]

This is not a change from 4th, it was like that there too. Astral is great to spot people in empty, dead areas, but it sucks as soon as plantlife or any other life is involved. It's a nightmare to find someone with astral sight in a crowd. A mage looking in the astral also can't really tell if you're wearing the correct uniform or not, so the flipside is that if you act like a normal guard in the distance, the mage will probably not bat an eye.

[ZeConster]

My GM did this to me. I was hiding with a sniper rifle, and he declared that an astrally-projecting mage automatically saw me (I did not get to roll Sneak or anything), told a rigger where I was, and had a drone shoot me (I did not get to roll Perception to notice the drone, nor did I get to roll Sneak against it). I had invested heavily in Sneak, and it didn't matter in the slightest. My new character has no ranks in Sneak, because honestly, what's the point?

Unless you did something really bad to piss off your GM, I suggest you, your GM, and a phonebook have a little conversation about this.

[Kincaid]

For the sake of simplicity, I assume that astral perception counts as thermographic and ultrasound (range = los) for the purposes of seeing someone sneaking around in the shadows.  Standing still in a dark corner isn't going to work, but other stuff might.  Obviously, astrally-specific stuff like details, organic matter and so forth also come into play here, but a guy hiding behind a wall or under a tarp (every sniper needs a tarp) is still largely hidden and the mage still needs to roll to see the sneaky guy.  If the mage is projecting (not just perceiving) it's very very hard since you essentially have to luck out and place an object between you and the invisible mage.

[ZeConster]

If the mage is projecting (not just perceiving) it's very very hard since you essentially have to luck out and place an object between you and the invisible mage.

... Why do I feel like snipers are going to start hiding in giant cardboard boxes?

[Kincaid]

If the mage is projecting (not just perceiving) it's very very hard since you essentially have to luck out and place an object between you and the invisible mage.

... Why do I feel like snipers are going to start hiding in giant cardboard boxes?

Only snipers named Snake get to do this.

[Crunch]

My GM did this to me. I was hiding with a sniper rifle, and he declared that an astrally-projecting mage automatically saw me (I did not get to roll Sneak or anything), told a rigger where I was, and had a drone shoot me (I did not get to roll Perception to notice the drone, nor did I get to roll Sneak against it). I had invested heavily in Sneak, and it didn't matter in the slightest. My new character has no ranks in Sneak, because honestly, what's the point?

That seems really crappy. Sorry Prime. In general anything that makes a player feel helpless or unimportant is bad GMing.