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Combat hacking and Grids

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zerrissenheit

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« on: <07-19-13/2053:22> »
I really like the change to the Grid system from SR4's nodes. In general, it simplifies things. I have a question though:

Let's say you're a decker or technomancer in combat or some other nearby-target situation. You can perceive non-hidden devices and personas null sheen because you're within 100m. Do your matrix actions still use the grid rules? (to the point, is there a possibility that your target could be protected to a degree because she's on the public grid and therefor forces you to take -2?) That doesn't seem right, and it's a layer of complication that GMs need to account for when building combat encounters.

So, do all matrix actions go through the grid, regardless of physical proximity?

Zamzoph

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« Reply #1 on: <07-19-13/2141:56> »
As long as a target icon is not running silent and is within 100m, you can spot it automatically and therefore proceed to do actions against it.  When you start rolling dice to do actions against the target, though, you then take a -2 dice pool penalty if the icon is on a different grid as you.  The only exceptions are if both you and the target icon are on the same host and if your target is a device you have a direct connection with.  This would mean that yes, an icon can get protection from you by being on the public grid, either giving you the -2 different-grid penalty or the -2 public grid penalty if you Grid Hop to it.  If you want to try and justify it, think of it this way:  when a target icon is on the public grid, actions against it will have difficulty registering due to the slow, unreliable service that's hosting it.

If that still doesn't meet your satisfaction, I've heard of a houserule in which icons with a higher-level grid can target an icon on a lower-level grid without the different-Grid penalty.  A local grid ignores the penalty against the public grid, and a global grid ignores penalties against both local grids and the public grid.

Personally, I really can't say that I care at all for the grid rules, finding that they add complexity to keep track of and slow things down with smaller dice pools just for the sake of it.  I think you can remove grids altogether and not miss anything.

GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #2 on: <07-19-13/2146:17> »
Quote
I really like the change to the Grid system from SR4's nodes. In general, it simplifies things. I have a question though:

Let's say you're a decker or technomancer in combat or some other nearby-target situation. You can perceive non-hidden devices and personas null sheen because you're within 100m. Do your matrix actions still use the grid rules? (to the point, is there a possibility that your target could be protected to a degree because she's on the public grid and therefor forces you to take -2?) That doesn't seem right, and it's a layer of complication that GMs need to account for when building combat encounters.

So, do all matrix actions go through the grid, regardless of physical proximity?
I haven't yet gotten a satisfying answer to this question yet. There are some claiming that yes within 100 meters the -2 for Public grid lag would not apply. I just can't find it in RAW, nor have I been able to confirm it with a developer. It may be just something every GM has to rule on til the Matrix book. I lean toward waving the -2 within 100 meters as of now.

Here's a link to conversation where I was asking the SR Line Developer Jason Hardy about this, among many other things:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?338517-Ask-the-Shadowrun-line-developer-stuff/page2

GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #3 on: <07-19-13/2150:54> »
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Personally, I really can't say that I care at all for the grid rules, finding that they add complexity to keep track of and slow things down with smaller dice pools just for the sake of it.  I think you can remove grids altogether and not miss anything.
I was able to confirm in that link  I put up that the G-Men are especially intense on the Megacorp Grids. I think the grids have a lot of potential for both flavor and security reasons. It's more dangerous to hack those sites on the Megacorp grids. (Although we don't yet have G-men rules, it's something easy to create...just NPC deckers)

You can also have flavor stuff like lots of vandalism and petty Matrix gangs/tribes on the public grid.