[Teyl_Iliar]

is this side work thing for everyone?

[Xzylvador]

If they can be combined with the blackhammer programming:
Wagner will help for some people wanting a good library of trids or a subscription to Prime3V but unable to afford it, hacking the copy protection or spoofing ID's. Since he doesn't want to attract too much attention, the job's done pretty sloppy, the kind of hack that will usually get found after the next security update. He tells this to people in advance, he's not ripping them off; they get what they pay for, which isn't all that much.
Nothing on a big scale, people looking for that know how to find the sites of larger pirate groups.
If it can't be combined, he just programs.

[Kot]

3d6.hits(5)=0
This is where those rules you've posted don't. It's all depending on luck with rolls...
Besides, I'm not going to spend my karma for some shitty wards for 50 nuyen. Bah. I won't be bothered for 10000 per Karma point. Casting and sustaining spells for profit? I wouldn't do that below 100 NY per point of Force per day...
I get that you don't want to give away too much, but this is our fourth job done. We're around Street Cred 4-5. People on the streets start talking about the team, low-life journalists and bloggers try to make a story out of them, fixers know their fixer's number, and such. They're semi-professionals. And until now all they could do was choose between living on the streets, and new gear. Except for Brick, who has no real choice.
It's not realistic. Our characters aren't low-life thugs who live from hit to hit. Though they earn less in a month than an average bodyguard does (200NY per day, that's 3k per month, usually). Yes, there's a lot of Karma, but you can't buy stuff with it. I can't get Bound spirits, Wagner can't upgrade his drones, and such... This is frustrating, as you assume our characters can - during a whole month between jobs - earn ~50-100 nuyen. I play a Mage, Xzylvador plays a Rigger/Hacker, Sichr plays an Adept samurai, and Teyl plays... well, Brick. Each of them could get a job that pays out a hundred or two per day. Not easily, but they have the contacts and street cred to vouch for them... And a job for 50NY doesn't even cover the costs for a day of lifestyle.
Damn, I'm going to crack up some kind of odd job rules.

[inca1980]

Well first of all your street cred is not 4-5....it's only 1.  I did a whole post on street cred before. 

Yeah, just like most other things in this game, things should depend a lot on luck with rolls, and better stats at something equates to better luck with those rolls.  The idea is that if you have a good charisma, you have a better shot at getting a little sidework.  Then, you can just make a ward for someone and it just lasts a few weeks....no sustaining, no Karma...reread the part on wards.  But the point was to abstract the side jobs process that I thought I'd introduce specifically to reflect that thing you were talking about about making wards for people and what not.  It's some money man...i was just trying to help out in a way that makes sense.   Brick's saved up a good amount...cuz he's made certain choices....you've all made choices.  You decided you'd run over to Zach to help him out when you guys were in that apartment....it cost you some nuyen getting shrapenel out of your butt....you could have run the other way with Brick....but then at the same time you gained favor with your spirits for the altruistic move and that was reflected in terms of Karma.....but that job was a good payday anyways....last job wasn't, there will be more jobs.....some lucrative, some just ordinary...and maybe even some come at a loss if you royally screw up.   Another example:  you bought binding materials but you didn't have a high binding skill....what did you think was gonna happen??  You failed the binding test and blew 2000nuyen.  That's not my fault dude, that's your fault.  You'd be 2000nuyen richer if you hadn't done that.  That's betting 2000 nuyen on a 50/50 chance man....not a smart move.  So are you really just frustrated cuz I don't give you enough nuyen to recover from foreseeable mistakes? 

Ok, so why don't you go get a job as a bodyguard and see how long that criminal SIN of yours holds out in the application process.  You guys mabye aren't low-life thugs....but you're definitely people who can't be part of the system because once you're outside the system, it's a rat race to try to get into the system.  Trust me man, i've got close family that has to deal with being outside the system in this country and you can't just decide..."hey i'm gonna be a bodyguard, hey i'm gonna be a nurse."  At every little turn you don't got the right paperwork to even get your foot in the door....so you gotta hide and keep your head low and do jobs other people don't wanna do.

So i mean, i'll let you give it a shot if you wanna apply to be a body guard.  But I warn you....if you refuse to do stuff which is against your code of ethics....either you do it or get fired.  Either the fake SIN passes the scan it's gonna get every single day, and as soon as it doesn't pass, you're busted and a 6000 nuyen fake is burned. 

I just don't see how this doesn't seem realistic to you.  I mean, even if in an absolute moral sense, shadowrunners aren't criminals or low-lifes....but from a corporations perspective...they're the most dangerous thing on the planet and since corporations rule the world and make all the laws....shadowrunners definitely are criminals in their eyes. 

As you can see, depending on your guys decisions and rolls, your guys paydays can vary a whole lot. 

I don't have a problem entertaining ANY ideas you guys have and considering them.  LIke if you want to become a bodyguard, i'll figure out how to do it in order to make it realistic and feasible in the context of the team.  But if you roll bad....don't blame anyone.  You could have gotten two jobs on that 3 Cha roll with a decent probability.  Then you'd roll for the ward and probably gotten like 200-400 nuyen.  Since i give you good Karma, use it on your skills.  Then you can start gathering your own binding materials ....crafting your own foci.  That's why the Shadowrun developers developed those rules.  I'm telling you man, half the rules in the shadowrun books just are useless if i give you much more money than i'm giving you now. 

@Xzylvador:
As a side note, check out "spoofing life" in unwired.

@Brick:
Yeah, the side jobs are for anyone.

 

[Xzylvador]

Still working my way through unwired, hadn't reached that yet. Thanks for pointing that out... but I don't think that's something for Wagner, not yet anyway.
If he's going to be a parasite, it'll be on rich people's backs, not from bums who can barely afford their own lives.
Like I said (well, wrote), he's got a SIN, a résumé... I'd be lying if he wasn't considering going back to that. That Day Job quality's starting to look attractive.
Cha (3d6.hits(5)=0) Well, at least he won't be disturbed from his programming

Something I thought of before but forgot to post, also became a little hesitant about the idea because of the whole "this isn't a normal SR game but an UB game" thing:
Wouldn't GridGuide contain some very useful paydata? Like, the location of pretty much anyone, any time, as far as the logs go back?
Or realtime updates of people's locations... He could be selling that info; or just sell the account.

[Teyl_Iliar]

@ Zxy, dude that's a good point, I'm sure gridguide controls every toll road. so the must control the deposit system for those tolls! Hell if you only took .5 nuyen for every toll paid for one day of every week you'd still be making money! Hard part would be not getting caught as I'm sure its loaded with IC and security spiders on the  look out for just such a program.

[inca1980]

So i'll also let you guys let your contacts help you find a job too.  You can do a Cha+Connection roll as well for different contacts.  For each contact I'll determine an appropriate job. 

@Xzylvador:

The Grid Guide thing might be a possibility.  Well remember that you hacked the Grid Guide system on the fly, so as soon as you log out, the account is no longer valid.  You'd have to probe the target or search for a backdoor.  Read that whole section in Unwired ...basically pg. 93 - 101.  That's for advanced spoofing, backdoors, forging credsticks, etc. etc.

So the Gridguide system is just the direct node that your vehicle is in contact with.  It's quite fortified but it's only part of a whole network of nodes.


@Everyone: 

Ok, so after giving it some thought, I think the only way to resolve this whole interim time period in between UB's is to basically be very explicit about how much time is in between each UB.  I'll just do a test of Amazing Larry's Charisma 4 + Connection 4 (6, 1 week).  We'll just use AL's dicepool just to keep it simple.  This will be the time you have, and then EVERYTHING you do.  Purchasing gear, tests...etc. will take out from this time.  Things can only be done simultaneously under my approval. 

Time between runs (6, 1 week): (8d6.hits(5)=5, 8d6.hits(5)=2, 8d6.hits(5)=5, 8d6.hits(5)=0).  So you have 2 weeks until next UB.  Lifestyle costs come every 4 weeks. 

We'll try this for a little while and see if it works. 

[Sichr]

You want some money, take the Day job Quality. Otherwise you are aerning just by runs. I didnt even read Incas response...and I will ...but whinning about "so much money" takes me to the point where I can say...using explosives on a 100K car???
The last option you take if you think at least a bit economicaly...

We may be able, but we had to make our way to the top...and 4 hits...you are kidding...if any journallist would try to find out more about me, that would be an execution...

[inca1980]

omg! that would have been hilarious if you guys had car jacked those fools!!!  lol.

Or maybe you guys wanna start doing some carjackings?  Or scope somebody out and then break into their house...you know a little B&E...never hurt nobody  

I'm game dude....i mean, i can totally make something like that your next UB.  You guys can set up your own UB's....you don't have to wait for amazing Larry.  I'll love a lot of stuff up to the dice to decide when it comes to seeing if something is feasible.

[Teyl_Iliar]

omg! that would have been hilarious if you guys had car jacked those fools!!!  lol.

Or maybe you guys wanna start doing some carjackings?  Or scope somebody out and then break into their house...you know a little B&E...never hurt nobody  

I'm game dude....i mean, i can totally make something like that your next UB.  You guys can set up your own UB's....you don't have to wait for amazing Larry.  I'll love a lot of stuff up to the dice to decide when it comes to seeing if something is feasible.

Some of these things are really good calls. but i don't think they would qualify combat wise. to the leave of UB. but hell,  Robbing people happens everyday. and we could come up with some good idea's for heists. since we've got a rigger we could totally jack people's vehicles and we could chopshop that shit up!

As for brick, He's willing to tinker around with other people's guns and gear if they want work done on them, reasonable prices for friends  . Also side jobs roll. (2d6.hits(5)=1) Brick is sticking to at least semi legal armorer stuff or helping out contacts like Rush, the Doctor, or Anita for some spare cash. (although I think he'd still charge what it would cost him favors from them. depending on the work of course.) I'll talk to you about possible jobs and all this weekend since shit isn't flying (as usual). hit me up on chat if you're around tonight, I will be. gotta finish up that specialist.

[Xzylvador]

Well remember that you hacked the Grid Guide system on the fly, so as soon as you log out, the account is no longer valid.

Uhm... Pretty sure Wagner did a much more thorough job.

So wait, are we now 2 weeks after the run, so don't need to pay rent for another 2 weeks? Or are we 6 weeks after the run before we get a new job?

[Kot]

Meh. Okay. Sorry for sounding so frustrated there, but It's not the best time for me.
First, wasn't Street=Cred Karma Eaned/10?
Second, you wrote like there's no SINless job market. We live in the barrens, so why not just hook up with someone who needs some help without the paperwork and taxes? A talismonger needing a semi-qualified assistant, or a fixer that needs an armorer/bodyguard/driver?
Third, what about more 'gathering' type professions? Like my Enchanting - I could run around gathering Devil Rat tails, or something like that (geez, sounds almost like a WoW quest )...

[inca1980]

@Kot:
yeah, that was the idea of the side jobs....use your skills...like i said, for security, enchanting, etc..  But these two weeks you don't have much luck looking for sidework.  The 50nuyen/ hit reflects the SINless nature of the job market and how the people who would hire you don't have much money at all to pay with. 


@Xzylvador:

Well, you didn't find any employers or buyers during these two weeks.  Roll the Charisma + Connection for one of your contacts.  Contacts will take 5% of what you sell for loyalty less than 4.  For 1 hit you can sell the false account on the Grid guide system....for 2 hits you can also sell some paydata....and more hits will give you other side jobs.

It would be 2 weeks since last UB.   My bad about the Hacking on the Fly.. you did probe the target.  So we'll say you can sell the hack into the system for 3d6x100 nuyen.  Once you sell it the buyer would change it up so that only he can use it and you can't use it anymore.  If you want to also first go in and find paydata.  I"ll say you can roll Browse+Datasearch(3) plus your usual modifiers and sell data for (Net Hits)x100 nuyen.  Even though you're an admin, there are system Spiders who are constantly checking the access logs etc. for intruders and any strange accounts or anything strange.  So roll a Hacking+Edit (3) with usual modifiers and if you fail, it could mean some trouble that i'll determine.  You can use edge on the Browse roll and the Stealth roll only and whatever edge you use comes out of your pool for UB5. 

@Teyl:

So you found a job fixing up some people's armor.  Roll Armor+Logic and you get Hitsx50nuyen.

[Teyl_Iliar]

side job money earned 50Xhits (6d6.hits(5)=3) HAHAHA my odd luck continues. 6's and 1's. wtf castle? 150 nuyen added to my main sheet.


Edit: what's the status of my ammo order and medkit supplies? Am I good to go for that ?

[Xzylvador]

Finding Paydata: Browse 6 + Data Search 3 + Enceph+Pushed 3 (12d6.hits(5)=3) Forgot 2 VR (2d6.hits(5)=1)
So 100Y of paydata.

Mess with access logs: Hacking+Edit (3)
Edit 6 + Hacking 4 + Enceph+Pushed 3 + VR 2 (12d6.hits(5)=2)
Fudge.

Contact: Sarah Joyce, Metroplex Technical Management    C4, L4. I figure her most likely to be asked if she could find some GridGuide data.
Cha + Connection (7d6.hits(5)=1)
So she could sell his account, which he's not selling.
And he's selling paydata, which she's not buying.

Not spending edge to make the missed threshold, for various reasons. This is an edit test and not a stealth test, I figure he just doesn't know his editing wasn't good enough until it's too late. And metagame, I was starting to get the feel of the whole "shit happens" situation you were describing. After that lucky shot, Wagner's hit a streak of bad luck. He'll take what you throw at him.
Wagner's doubt about whether he made the right choice quitting wageslave life for "freedom" in the shadows increases... will see how that'll reflect on his attitude next run.