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Horror Marks

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Stormdrake

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« on: <11-17-10/1438:32> »
Have been playing with this idea for some time but now have a player who may end up with a full blown Horror Mark do to his own actions.  Can someone give me a good solid description of what such a mark would do if translated into SR from ED?  If not will just make something up, lol.

I view this as a way of allowing the Horrors to have influence now rather than doing something to the mana level to allow them to manifest.

Angelone

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« Reply #1 on: <11-17-10/1644:04> »
The closest thing to horror marks in SR would be ritual magic but beefed up. Marks allow horrors to use the targets senses, use it's abilities on them, and use them to cast their abilities.

So ritual spellcasting without any of the drawbacks would be a good starting point.

I may not be completely accurate I just started reading Earthdawn again.
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Kot

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« Reply #2 on: <11-17-10/1731:13> »
I don't think a Mark would work without the Horror in question residing on Earth already. Or at least on a connected Metaplane.

But basically, a Mark is a gate to someone's doul. That lucky Horror can use any of his powers through the Marked one, and has a telepathic link with him at all times.

This is how a Mark works in Earthdawn 3rd edition.
Quote
This terrible ability allows Horrors to mark victims and items,
thereby linking the Horror and the target. When cast on a
target, a Horror mark becomes embedded into the target’s True
Pattern, making it difficult even for other Horrors to detect. To use
this power, the Horror must be able to see the target.
(game mechanics out)
The Horror mark links the Horror to the target over vast distances
and allows the Horror to use any of its abilities against or through
the target when it is within 10 miles of the Horror. For a range up to
100 miles, the Horror mark allows the Horror to take actions against
a target character that do not directly cause damage, and communication
between the Horror and the target extends for 5,000 miles.
Horror marks last a year and a day, and the Horror may renew the
Horror mark whenever it is within 100 miles of the target.

And - some Horrors can mark Items and Places even...

P.S. That 'year and a day' part is ED-specific. It might work different now...
« Last Edit: <11-17-10/1734:01> by Kot »
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #3 on: <11-17-10/2148:40> »
And the rules are often different for each type of Horror.  Some can only mark through intermediaries (cursed objects or locations) while others can only mark through touch (or other extreme proximity).  There are a few where the mark must be taken voluntarily, although coercion can be involved.

Also, I don't recommend introducing Horrors into Shadowrun just yet.  There are a handful floating around, but they are extraordinarily rare at this point.  Unless you want to make a campaign around one of the Horrors attempting to create a bridge before the world is ready, similar to the Dragonheart Trilogy.

Horrors are powerful, intelligent, viscious, and patient.  That combination of traits makes them top tier enemies.  Use at your own risk.
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Nomad Zophiel

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« Reply #4 on: <11-18-10/0506:31> »
Sounds like Spirit Pacts are the closest thing, just expand on them some.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #5 on: <11-18-10/0517:32> »
Spirit packs are about as close to Horrors and Horror Marks as your kid brother bumping your car with a remote control Tonka truck is to being run over by a train carrying semi-trailers.  Horrors are nasty, and no good comes from them.

There is a Horror in Earthdawn that convices people that it is one of the gods of the setting, sending heroes out on righteous quests.  It then tells them of a ritual that will banish a great evil forever.  When they perform the ritual, it tears off pieces of each of their bodies to form one for it to use on the physical plane.  Needless to say, very few survive the experience, and they just allowed a terrible evil to move about freely in the world.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Kot

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« Reply #6 on: <11-18-10/0705:45> »
There is a Horror in Earthdawn that convices people that it is one of the gods of the setting, sending heroes out on righteous quests.  It then tells them of a ritual that will banish a great evil forever.  When they perform the ritual, it tears off pieces of each of their bodies to form one for it to use on the physical plane.  Needless to say, very few survive the experience, and they just allowed a terrible evil to move about freely in the world.
Oh - he does that with the same heroes that managed to kill his physical form, to be specific. :P
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #7 on: <11-18-10/0819:43> »
Yeah, cause why wouldn't you?  His victory speech just breaks down to "Neener Neener Neener" at that point.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Nomad Zophiel

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« Reply #8 on: <11-18-10/0832:59> »
The way I figure it, the mana level is lower so any Horror that could reach through wouldn't be AS powerful. Spirit pacts (which even RAW can suck for the PC) seem to fill the niche. They're just more deliberately abusive with their end of the bargain and can provide some fascinatingly evil powers.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #9 on: <11-18-10/0839:21> »
The thing about Horrors is, if the mana level is too low for them to excercise their power, then they either leave or hole up somewhere in a mana heavy/corrupted region which will allow their power to be useful.  Some may have plans that need to be implemented outside of those habitible zones, but when outside those areas said Horror is going to manipulate for all it can.

While it might grant some of the boons that the pacts mention, there will always be a downside.  And that downside will either kill the PC or corrupt the PC beyond the player's control.  And that is not a fun game.  Well, once in a while it could be, but I would hasten to add that it would have to be worked out with the player beforehand that his PC is gonna end up in the crapper and likely result in a TPK.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Kot

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« Reply #10 on: <11-18-10/1041:50> »
That's a bit double-edged. There are Horrors powerfull enough to exist in the current magic level, like Yrsgranthe, Bone Crown, and others who already tried to get here. On the other hand, there should be also less powerfull Horrors, who find the current magic level enough... By reading the ED introductory history from the rulebook you can see many minor Horrors manifested quite early. And powerfull ones too - like the one who was behind the fall of Scytha - a dwarven kingdom, in which all newborn died in a few weeks, like something was draining their lifeforce... That was quite early, so magic level wasn't very high, and tell me you don't think a powerfull Horror was behind all that.

If you want to introduce Horrors in the game, do so with minor ones. There are Horrors, who you'd consider weak in the physical sense, that have enough brains and manipulative power to be a serious threat to the group. Now, what if they are hired to catch one?

The way I figure it, the mana level is lower so any Horror that could reach through wouldn't be AS powerful. Spirit pacts (which even RAW can suck for the PC) seem to fill the niche. They're just more deliberately abusive with their end of the bargain and can provide some fascinatingly evil powers.
Well, not really. Whatever the Horror promises is either a lie (no cake), or will be twisted in such a cruel and painfull way, that it will probably drive you insane. There is no 'pact' in Marking. Just an alien, evil entity making the Marked one his bitch. Period.
« Last Edit: <11-18-10/1044:52> by Kot »
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
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FastJack

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« Reply #11 on: <11-18-10/1056:37> »
The mana level may be right, but now you have a cyberzombie with the Dragon Heart keeping Horrors from coming over too early... ;)

Kot

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« Reply #12 on: <11-18-10/1117:56> »
The mana level may be right, but now you have a cyberzombie with the Dragon Heart keeping Horrors from coming over too early... ;)
The big ones? Sure. But what about the minor ones?
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
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FastJack

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« Reply #13 on: <11-18-10/1128:38> »
He's watching the gap for all horrors. And only the bigger ones would be powerful to build a bridge over the gap. Smaller ones would "tagalong" across the gap, but they can't bridge it on their own. You need MORE mana for the smaller ones to come across.

You're thinking that as the mana level goes up, the more powerful can come across when, actually, it's the inverse.

Let's assume that the Mana level is measurable on a scale of 1 to 10. You're assuming that if we're currently at a Mana level of 2, then all creatures on the other side of the gap of level two can make it across. Instead, it means the only creatures of power level 8 or greater can make it across.

Think of it this way. The Mana level goes from 1 to 10, and the gap between our world and theirs is 10. We're currently at Mana level X, so only creatures with power level 10-X have the "reach" to make it across the gap.


Okay, that's doesn't make sense either, otherwise the most powerful would be able to come across now...

Gods, I hate magical theory. Much easier to just tell the mage to blow up the building. Let me work on my theory a bit and I'll get back to you.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #14 on: <11-18-10/1325:07> »
The thing about the Horrors is that they don't just need mana or a high mana level.  The Horrors have to keep a portion of their attention on just being here, otherwise they get snapped back to their reality.  The old wards from back in the 4th age worked on that principle:  They were a kind of mental trap for astral beings, pulling some of their attention away from where they were and what they were doing.  The Horror either backed off or it got spat back to its realm.  The really, really focused ones could maintain enough integrity in order to breach the ward.  With the sheer number of Horrors that showed up for the Scourge, this meant a lot of kaers got breached.

What this also suggests is that the lower mana level means that powerful, and intelligent, Horrors expend more effort staying on this plane.  The less potent ones have a harder time crossing the threshold, but don't need to work as hard to stay here (less power brought over, less effort).  They would effectively ride any small spikes that would periodically crop up (like the spike babies of elves and dwarfs on Earth), while powerful ones might come over but unless they were very focused they would bounce back home quickly when the spike faded.

This would vary according to the "species" of Horror, and would mean that any that managed to stay during the downcycle (like Yrsgrathe) had to work very hard to maintain themselves in high mana/specialized areas.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."