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The Wage Slave's Guide to the Sixth World

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« Reply #135 on: <07-26-14/0942:39> »
Ok I can see that for an incompetant being shuffled off to a made up office job but what about the people who actually enjoy doing manaul labour e.g. bricklaying, carpentry and the like? Not janitorial work but still hard physical work often outdoors?
I would say that being brought up in a corp as part of the elite (= full SIN), you would be taught that manual labor is below your worth and it is the job of the wage slaves to do so (or drones). And that it is a sign of the ever-progressing corp society to develop away from such inhuman work (play begins showing renaissance farmers sweating in the sun, starving to death or succumbing to malnutrition and diseases).

If you absolutely must work with your hands to achieve personal happiness, you will be given the opportunity to become an artist of some sort. So you don't "work", you create masterpieces. It's the same today actually. My cousin had to fight his parents to become a carpenter although he could have gone to college. And that was a simple white collar family.

And speaking as one of those "blue collar" workers (industral instrument mechanic) I encounter that type of bias all the time.

"But you're so smart! Your parents are doctors and lawyers! Why would you ever want to that for a living??"

To which I reply "yea... travel around the world on someone else's dime AND get paid 100k - 300k a year. Yea it sure was silly of me..."

The simple fact of the matter is that for over 2 decades now, we have told ourselves that "only those with a university degree are in high paying, respectful jobs" when the truth of the matter is that the trades (pipefitting, ironworking, boilermaking, carpentry,  electrical) are actually some of the highest paying jobs around right now... but that's mostly due to the high demand in the world industral sector where they need tradesmen! Lawyers, dentists, financial planners are a dime-a-dozen, pushed out of universities by the hundreds a year.... but people who can actually build their workplaces are in high demand.... when the economy is moving.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Lusis

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« Reply #136 on: <07-26-14/1144:52> »
Ok I can see that for an incompetant being shuffled off to a made up office job but what about the people who actually enjoy doing manaul labour e.g. bricklaying, carpentry and the like? Not janitorial work but still hard physical work often outdoors?
I would say that being brought up in a corp as part of the elite (= full SIN), you would be taught that manual labor is below your worth and it is the job of the wage slaves to do so (or drones). And that it is a sign of the ever-progressing corp society to develop away from such inhuman work (play begins showing renaissance farmers sweating in the sun, starving to death or succumbing to malnutrition and diseases).

If you absolutely must work with your hands to achieve personal happiness, you will be given the opportunity to become an artist of some sort. So you don't "work", you create masterpieces. It's the same today actually. My cousin had to fight his parents to become a carpenter although he could have gone to college. And that was a simple white collar family.

And speaking as one of those "blue collar" workers (industral instrument mechanic) I encounter that type of bias all the time.

"But you're so smart! Your parents are doctors and lawyers! Why would you ever want to that for a living??"

To which I reply "yea... travel around the world on someone else's dime AND get paid 100k - 300k a year. Yea it sure was silly of me..."

The simple fact of the matter is that for over 2 decades now, we have told ourselves that "only those with a university degree are in high paying, respectful jobs" when the truth of the matter is that the trades (pipefitting, ironworking, boilermaking, carpentry,  electrical) are actually some of the highest paying jobs around right now... but that's mostly due to the high demand in the world industral sector where they need tradesmen! Lawyers, dentists, financial planners are a dime-a-dozen, pushed out of universities by the hundreds a year.... but people who can actually build their workplaces are in high demand.... when the economy is moving.

As for real life: the biggest shortages in the US are in STEM: Science, Technical, Engineering, Mathematics. I encourage any young person to pursue passions in those areas above liberal arts studies.

But I digress.
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Ursus Maior

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« Reply #137 on: <07-27-14/1244:13> »
To which I reply "yea... travel around the world on someone else's dime AND get paid 100k - 300k a year. Yea it sure was silly of me..."

The simple fact of the matter is that for over 2 decades now, we have told ourselves that "only those with a university degree are in high paying, respectful jobs" when the truth of the matter is that the trades (pipefitting, ironworking, boilermaking, carpentry,  electrical) are actually some of the highest paying jobs around right now... but that's mostly due to the high demand in the world industral sector where they need tradesmen! Lawyers, dentists, financial planners are a dime-a-dozen, pushed out of universities by the hundreds a year.... but people who can actually build their workplaces are in high demand.... when the economy is moving.

Same here in Germany. In fact, the only thing a university degree guarantees you, is a higher base wage when compared to someone who finished his job training without a university degree. Also, top corporate positions are now almost only accesible for people with degrees. But this is a fraction of all jobs achievable. And in average, you make more money when you learn a trade starting age 16 or 18 and work until 65. You can get a degree from a distant learning university later while still working (and earning). This will basically get you everywhere on the job market, except being a teacher, doctor, researcher, chemist or lawyer (in Germany).
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« Reply #138 on: <07-27-14/1451:49> »
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach"
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Ursus Maior

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« Reply #139 on: <07-27-14/1624:55> »
Don't even get me started on the school system here in Germany. But we digress.
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Sendaz

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« Reply #140 on: <07-27-14/1742:32> »
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach"
And those that can't teach become critics for big newspapers/journals. :P
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MijRai

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« Reply #141 on: <07-27-14/1808:19> »
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach"
And those that can't teach become critics for big newspapers/journals. :P

I thought it was, "And those who can't teach, teach gym."
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

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« Reply #142 on: <07-27-14/1940:28> »
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach"
And those that can't teach become critics for big newspapers/journals. :P

Tell me about it!

I always wait for a movie review before I go see it. If the critics loved it, I don't waste my time.

If the critics hated it, I'm off to the theater! !
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Lusis

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« Reply #143 on: <10-04-14/1103:10> »
An article that addesses a flaw in the corporate economies of SR:   http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-10-03/employees-are-not-your-customers
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MijRai

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« Reply #144 on: <10-04-14/1123:02> »
An article that addesses a flaw in the corporate economies of SR:   http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-10-03/employees-are-not-your-customers

Eh, that's not really accurate in how the corporations do their schtick.  For one, it's more than just cars (which are, in a sense, a luxury purchase.  I mean, in their example, they're saving all their extra money to buy a car, and then buy another one after that.  It doesn't really make sense).  The food you eat to the clothes you wear to the media you watch; that's all from the Corporation (maybe some stuff provided by another corp or two, but not the majority of it).  In addition, look at company scrip (i.e. Corporate Scrip).  It's a common thing in the Shadowrun future (Aztlan/Aztechnology flat-out doesn't even let you exchange it for another currency, except in a few special cases). 

The article also states that the cost of the car doesn't include the raw materials, which makes no sense either.  That's a part of how you make a profit; you figure out what it costs to make it in time, resources, and man-power, take said value and tack on a 5% or higher profit. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #145 on: <10-04-14/1855:26> »
No, Megan McArdle is absolutely correct, as far as she goes; you can never pay your employees enough (per se) to make a profit purely on what they purchase.  She just isn't going far enough, and anyone who's trying to implement her ideas needs to realize is that it isn't your goal to get your employees to purchase your goods and services; it is to make your employees value their jobs to the extent they don't leave you for greener pastures, and to reacquire the monies which they would have been spending anyhow.  McArdle couldn't have chosen a worse example; cars are a luxury item.  Buying a car is a big purchase, and many people, even today, just can't afford it, or it makes better economic sense to ride public transport.  Food, clothing, these are not luxury items, which means that Joe Schmoe is going to buy it - somewhere - guaranteed.  Those are the things that are not the 'extra' amount.

Joe's food budget is, let's say, 10% of what he makes; $X/10.  You want to sell your food at a profit, sure.  You want to sell your food to anyone, whether that's Joe or Myrtle or Henri VIII.  If you're selling your food for 11% of what you pay Joe, Joe has to take that 10% somewhere else, and instead of you getting that 10% back  - because Joe is just another frelling customer for a staple 'must-buy' item, basic food - someone else gets that 10%, and you lose a customer - and Joe, your employee, is disgruntled, because for the amount you're paying him, he can't even shop at your 'bargain basement store'.  It'd be different if he were working for a high-end clothing store, or a car place, or whatever - but even then, it is wise to pay your employees sufficiently so that they find at least a minimal segment of your products are within their budget for that item.  It's part of advertising.

Yes, you make your profit by selling to people other than your employees; that's absolutely true.  That your employees shop where they work doesn't mean that you're losing your profit, it means that you're losing less of your labor expense.  You're always going to be paying Joe $X per hour.  Joe has to be making enough to buy food for himself and his family - if he doesn't make it with you, he has to go somewhere else and make it with them.  If you make it worth his while to buy his food from you - because he's going to be getting food from somewhere no matter what - then you will be getting back the monies you paid him.  And he'll be happy he can buy it from you, and he'll go home happy.  Or be able, after four years of saving, to purchase that Honda, or wristwatch, or whatever it is you're selling.  It's part of advertising; it's part of employee satisfaction.  Customers pay attention when an employee says, "Oh, yeah, I got one of these last week/month/year.  These things are great!!"  You want 'word of mouth' to start with your employees.

Are your employees going to be your entire consumer base?  Hell, no.  But that's what McArdle's proposition subtly points out.  She proposes that you lose money selling to your employee, when she's failing to account for the fact that for every one widget you sell to that employee, that employee (happy that she bought a widget, loves her widget, is enthusiastic about Wyrm-brand Widgets, They're The Best!!TM) is going to have sold more widgets.  Because she's happy about them, customers who are interested in a widget but just want information right now (because Micronaut-brand Widgets are a buck less, just down the street) MIGHT buy today because Your Employee is so gosh-darned happy with her Wyrm-brand Widget (They're The Best!!TM) has convinced them with her enthusiasm and personal experience and satisfaction that they should not purchase a Micronaut-brand Widget, but a Wyrm-brand Widget, and find out for themselves why They're The Best!!TM

In other words, while McArdle's mathematics and conclusions are clear on the surface, she fails at Business Employee Sense 101 - and fails miserably.
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baronspam

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« Reply #146 on: <10-05-14/0405:59> »
Everyone has their own take on the Shadowrun world.  Personally, I find that some people are excessively grim and dark in their interpretation, because its a grim and dark world.  But they tend to paint everything with that brush, which I think it unrealistic.

Unskilled to semi-skilled workers do have it rough.  They earn 24-25k a year, just enough to pay for a low lifestyle.  They do probably put in quite a few hours for that, but if you push people to constantly put in 12 hour days and 6 day weeks it is simply counterproductive.  Productivity goes to hell, theft goes up, quality goes down, mistakes multiply, and workplace violence and problems like alcohol and drug abuse skyrocket.  Medical costs go up, and there is more missed days of work, or even worse, people clocking in and then simply not doing anything useful.  The corps wouldn't do this, not because they are nice, not because they care, but because it hurts the bottom line.  Trust me, there was a cost benefit analysis.  Common work weeks in my view are either five ten hours days or 6 eight hour days. 

But keep in mind there is a middle class as well.  Top salespeople, technicians with skills that can not be reproduced with wires or drones, engineers, doctors, lawyers, computer professionals, not to mention the endless hoard of "middle managers" who attend meetings and write emails and attend meetings and then write emails about the meetings and then have meetings about the emails would do better financially.  There are still suburbs, nice apartment buildings, etc, and they are full of corporate types.

I think the real horror of working for a major corporation is not the working conditions, but rather then constants scrutiny and presence of the corp.  You live in a corp owned building, work in a corp owned office.  You take the corporate shuttle bus, of if you got that promotion drive a car that a subsidiary of the corporation manufactures, and you paid for it in corporate script.  There is a rec center and soccer green and a pool in the corp housing development, which is nice, but the Sunday sports leagues are organized by corp moral officers, the trid sets only get the subscriptions that the corps approve (or make), the library only has downloads of approved and instructive literature.  If you get sick you go to a hospital run by a different subsidiary of the corp and see a doctor who only sees corp patients (see, the contract promised exclusive medical care!)  Your manager can read your medical file, knows how much beer you bought from the company store, and if you downloaded any porno over the corp matrix connection, not that they automatically disapprove of that, but they want to  make a note of what does it for you.  It might be useful sometime.  When you retire you go to a corp owned "leisure center", and when you die you secretly get mulched into Supergrow (tm) lawn care products.

That, I think, it what the typical runner really can't take.  Some take to the shadows because they had some kind of fall and can't get a corporate job, but others go to the shadows willingly because they just can't take big brother.

Also, not all jobs are held by the big ten.  Yes, they are huge multinationals and a big chunk of the world economy is connected to them, but there are single and double A corps out there, not to mention national and local corporations.  There are other options for talented and productive people.  Many extraction jobs are voluntary.  Think of it as a way to break a contract without getting a lawyer involved.



Ravensong

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« Reply #147 on: <10-06-14/1357:25> »
Wage slavery is for the sheep. As long as they are fed, housed, and kept safe from all that goes bump in the shadows, they will accept their lot in life. Meanwhile, they give their lives to the very corporations that make life unbearable for everyone else. For us wolves, we wouldn't last any longer as a wage slave as a wage slave would last out in the shadows. Different strokes for different folks.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #148 on: <10-06-14/1437:13> »
Wage slavery is for the sheep. As long as they are fed, housed, and kept safe from all that goes bump in the shadows, they will accept their lot in life. Meanwhile, they give their lives to the very corporations that make life unbearable for everyone else. For us wolves, we wouldn't last any longer as a wage slave as a wage slave would last out in the shadows. Different strokes for different folks.
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Speak for yourself, Mr. Ravensong. Some of us are well aware of what goes on in the shadows, perhaps even more so than the likes of you. There are wolves, and then there are dragons...
[/IC]

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Ravensong

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« Reply #149 on: <10-06-14/1441:54> »
Fair enough, Herr Brackhaus. That's why my Dwarf Mercenary carries heavy weapons and never makes deals with dragons.
Brad: We're gonna be bodyguards for teen rock-stars.
Schlock: Wouldn't the cause of freedom be better served if we killed them instead?