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Lets talk WAR!

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JM_Hardy

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« Reply #45 on: <12-16-10/1558:04> »
I'm going to admit that I'm not sure just what that second line is trying to communicate, but the phraseology "Even a mormon" raises some alarms. Please be cautious about painting people of a religion with an overly broad brush. We'll count this as an admonition, not a warning, for the moment.
JM, i don't have anything against Mormons (damn, i didn't use Capital M though, my bad). It's just a recurring trolling meme involving a chat room with Mormon evangelists getting pestered with the question 'How do magnets work' by trolls.
If it sounded like i'm discriminating this religion, then i apologize. It won't happen again.

All right, done and done. No harm, no foul, no permanent record.

Jason H.
Jason M. Hardy
Shadowrun Line Developer

"The thing is, I’m serious about what I do, and the people with whom I associate are serious about what they do. We’re all serious people. Look, I can even make a serious face. See?" --Quinn Bailey

Kot

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« Reply #46 on: <12-16-10/1605:08> »
Good. I sometimes don't understand myself even. I think i need a 'is-it-comperhensible' checker plugin. =='

Note to self: This meme is pretty obscure. And stupid, when you think of it. Don't use it again.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

Shrike30

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« Reply #47 on: <12-16-10/1610:16> »
I'm inclined to go with the "suppressed" grenade option posted earlier.  Some modern offensive (HE in SR terms) grenades use what's essentially a notched wire wrapped casing to deliver their force over an area without having the problem of a larger kill radius like a defensive grenade (Frag in SR terms).  They're not that far removed from how a "monowire grenade" driven by an explosive core would work, and I'm of the opinion that monowire would likely combust if you set off a charge right next to it.  Get that sucker driven by compressed gas, however, and now we're cooking.  Still a pretty loud pop, but nothing like setting off a grenade driven by explosives.

Zen Shooter

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« Reply #48 on: <12-16-10/1616:39> »
Sure, we can speculate about what effects beyond those listed in W! a monowire grenade might have, but the canon includes none of that. It's still a very expensive, but not any more effective, alternative to an HE grenade. But it is a heck of a bargain on monowire by the meter.

Kot

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« Reply #49 on: <12-16-10/1619:00> »
Maybe the Monowire Grenade works using only pressure, not an explosion? I'm not good enough physics-wise to explain that, but it should be possible.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

FastJack

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« Reply #50 on: <12-16-10/1622:30> »
I would figure that a bunch of small bits of wire that will cut through anything will happily work their way below ground level once their initial explosive velocity is spent. Sooner or later they'll run into something caustic or hot enough to break down their chemical structure.
I can just picture it now:

Private Clueless: "Uhh... SAAARGE!!"
Sergeant Irate: "What is it now, private??"
PC: "I threw the mono-grenade like in basic, but something's not right!"
SI: "What's not right?"
PC: "The wires cut the enemy apart real good, but then when they fell to the ground, they started burrowing and ... well, look!"
PC points to a large hole falling deep within the earth, the air is hot from the heat of molten magma and the smell of brimstone fills the air. A well dress gentleman with blood red skin floats up out of the whole.
Lucifer: "My thanks, gents. That science of yours is a miraculous thing. Opened the gate to hell without a problem."

Bull

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« Reply #51 on: <12-16-10/1728:39> »
I'm going to admit that I'm not sure just what that second line is trying to communicate, but the phraseology "Even a mormon" raises some alarms. Please be cautious about painting people of a religion with an overly broad brush. We'll count this as an admonition, not a warning, for the moment.
JM, i don't have anything against Mormons (damn, i didn't use Capital M though, my bad). It's just a recurring trolling meme involving a chat room with Mormon evangelists getting pestered with the question 'How do magnets work' by trolls.
If it sounded like i'm discriminating this religion, then i apologize. It won't happen again.

In that case, I suggest we ban Kot, for perpetuating any lame internet meme :)  Especially anything that references ICP.  Oi vey. ;)

Bull

P.S. Before anyone asks, all internet memes are lame :)

Stormdrake

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« Reply #52 on: <12-16-10/1746:16> »
I may house rule Monofilement gernades to be a "supressive fire" device for the left over filiment after the explosion.  Probably for two or three turns only though.  Makes it a little bit more useful and diffrent enough from frags in my mind.  I can see a runner dropping one behind to slow down the "bad guys" or security firing a few over the heads of the runners to explode in fron of them to slow escape. 

I like the idea and DV of the gernade just feel it needs a little "something" to make it work in such a way that runners and security are going to say "Yes, please!"

Aaron

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« Reply #53 on: <12-16-10/2237:37> »
Sure, we can speculate about what effects beyond those listed in W! a monowire grenade might have, but the canon includes none of that. It's still a very expensive, but not any more effective, alternative to an HE grenade. But it is a heck of a bargain on monowire by the meter.

This might be a potentially interesting house rule: change the Blast to "10m radius," so you get uniform damage over the area.

Thoughts?

blorgh

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« Reply #54 on: <12-17-10/0343:34> »
Maybe the Monowire Grenade works using only pressure, not an explosion? I'm not good enough physics-wise to explain that, but it should be possible.
Physics-wise, it doesn't to any initial damage as mono-wire has next to no mass. The air friction alone would make it pretty much impossible to even cover any area with wire so that it acts as entanglement or deterrent.
Well, that brings up the question the of how do you "clean" an area where a monofilament grenade went off?
Of course, burning mono-wire is trivial – you could clear such areas with a flame thrower.

But the real fun fact is that it contains "hundreds of meters of monofilament", while having a list price of 150¥. As mono-wire costs 1.000¥ per meter, salvaging or stripping such grenades to sell the wire at the usual 30% will make you rich. Heck, even at 10%, it's instant money.
« Last Edit: <12-17-10/0348:15> by blorgh »

Kot

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« Reply #55 on: <12-17-10/0354:45> »
That made me thinkig - how the hell do they keep all that monowire inside, without it cutting through the grenade. The same method can be used for cleaning, i think.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

blorgh

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« Reply #56 on: <12-17-10/0402:35> »
What are your impressions so far?
That it anounces the return of archery regiments: It has software that allows you to synchronize two arrows shot from the same bow so they add their damage together.

Also, given the new rules of grenade damage stacking, full bursts of grenade do more damage than the cruise missiles listed in the book.
Yes there is power creep, comlinks and programs can now go up to rating 10 but the availability and cost scales put them right around the cost of a descent piece of deltaware, which I'm cool with...
Given that military commlinks in military armor were rated 4-6 in Arsenal and the Corporate Court uplink in Unwired is statted with rating 8 (Firewall 9), the new ratings for mere commlinks issued to soldieres are simply off the scale, which is just sad.
Not only that but the power creep is focused almost entirely on the mundane.
Sadly, no. Slow cast at force 5 allows you to pretty much ignore any kinetic attack and explosion, including Thor shots, while at the same time creating invisible rip-fields for vehicles and air-crafts when placed correctly – which is LoS.

Recharge is funny until you realize that it doesn't just mean that mages will only drive electric vehicles, but that a bound spirit of man can use this spell to supply entire cities with really clean energy – just build really large batteries.
« Last Edit: <12-17-10/0407:27> by blorgh »

Nomad Zophiel

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« Reply #57 on: <12-17-10/0625:12> »
That made me thinkig - how the hell do they keep all that monowire inside, without it cutting through the grenade. The same method can be used for cleaning, i think.

Well, drawing from the source fiction, monowire doesn't cut through diamond or itself. Diamond, while nigh impossible to cut does shatter easily. So I'd think that what you have is essentially an explosive core (possibly encased in synthetic diamond) surrounded by monowire lengths anchored to diamond bolas. Core goes boom, the diamond balls fly out and the monowire unspools between each pair. The balls provide the mass and the velocity, the wire cuts anything between them.

raben-aas

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« Reply #58 on: <12-17-10/0629:44> »
BTW what I like about WAR! (even though others may hate it) is the mixing of in-game and out-of-game info on the same page.

I passionately HATE flipping through a book or discovering at a much later time that there is no stats/game info on a certain topic /slash/ having to guess which parts of in-game info I'm just now reading will be covered later in the book stat-wise.

I know it's not the traditional SR presentation style (that means: it totally IS the traditional way (helloo, Street Samurai Catalogue), but was dropped after 1st or 2nd edition I think), but it really increases usability at the gaming table.

As long as both kinds of information are seperated on the page (i.e. by using text boxes) I'm TOTALLY fine with that.

Plus, WAR! has some great artwork (I'm not talking about my pieces, I'm talking about pages 31, 58 (great!), 62, 67 (I am a HUGE fan of in-game ads! Bring 'em on!!), 82, 86, 124 (awesome!), 128 (may well be my favorite piece at all, I love the composition, the cold-hearted cruelty, the "Best Dad" mug, the detached expression of the two people ... brillant), 152 (I love character pics like that)).

 
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Semerkhet

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« Reply #59 on: <12-17-10/1201:43> »
Maybe the Monowire Grenade works using only pressure, not an explosion? I'm not good enough physics-wise to explain that, but it should be possible.
Physics-wise, it doesn't to any initial damage as mono-wire has next to no mass. The air friction alone would make it pretty much impossible to even cover any area with wire so that it acts as entanglement or deterrent.
Seems like the easy answer to this is having a monofilament line with little weight pellets spaced along its length.  The weight pellets catch the momentum from the blast and drag the mono-line along.  In that case I totally do not grok how the mono-filament grenade does "similar" damage to a HE grenade.  Well, maybe similar DV but you'd think the monofilament would negate armor almost entirely.


Edit: Nomad Zophiel beat me to the punch but my second point still stands, i.e. how are these things not *way* more effective than standard HE grenades?  BTW, what are the stats on them?  I don't have the book yet.  If I buy it at all, I'll wait until I can order the "pdf+print version" deal.
« Last Edit: <12-17-10/1205:57> by Semerkhet »