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Capsule Rounds

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Dakka

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« on: <02-07-11/1640:20> »
Capsule Rounds from Arsenal (p.34) mention they can be filled with a chemical or a compound and you "adjust the costs and availability by addingthose for the chemical to those for the capsule round."  Exactly how many doses of a chemical do you need for 10 capsule rounds?  1?  10?  If it is 1 then how many capsules do you need to hit an enemy with to dose him with the drug or activate the compound?

My evil genius thought was to get capsule rounds filled with R12 Armor Debonder from War (p.163).  You hit something with armor and you get to roll 12 dice for hits and subtract that from the targets ballistic rating.  R12 Armor Debonder costs 480 per dose and capsule rounds are 30 for 10.  Does that make 10 capsules of Armor Debonder R12 510 or 4830?

Mäx

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« Reply #1 on: <02-07-11/1658:52> »
I would say you need one dose per capsule.
So it would be 4830 nuyen for 10 rounds.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Dakka

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« Reply #2 on: <02-07-11/1721:56> »
In that case, with a dose per capsule, do you think it would be possible to mass apply with a Narrow Burst from an automatic weapon?  A narrow full auto shot that manages to hit the target would be 120 dice or -30 ballistic armor for large dice conversion for about 5k.  If the team can net more than 5k to take down that Cyberzombie or armored personnel carrier or what have you this becomes an attractive option.

FastJack

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« Reply #3 on: <02-07-11/2007:09> »
I see nothing wrong with a long, narrow burst, provided you hit with it. Remember, recoil is your enemy and, if you miss, that's a lot of money being shot away.

In regards to Cyberzombies, they only have so much armor. One good hit should take out its armor, but it still has a LOT of DR dice to play with.

And with vehicles, remember the driver gets to try and avoid your shots as well. I wouldn't use a narrow burst, since you're not doing any damage to the vehicle in any case. But if you do a WIDE burst, then that applies a -9 modifier to the driver's defensive pool, balancing out the -9 recoil you're taking on firing at him. Also, this will work well against your standard KE patrol car (most of the time), but if you're shooting at the big ol' Azzie Cuanmitztli, it boasts a 36 Body and 30 Armor. So you may have taken out it's armor, but there's still two more Complex Actions before you wipe it out with the full auto assault rifle. And it gets to fire back -- BOOM from the main gun and three other weapon mounts.

Dakka

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« Reply #4 on: <02-08-11/0126:29> »
I can see the risks of using a Complex Action on nothing more than -30 Ballistic armor but I think the Risk Reward Ratio comes out ahead in certain situations, enough to have 10 capsules of the stuff around anyway.  Maybe 20 in case I miss a shot, but they don't call me Dakka for nothin'.  Missing is not usually an option.

Ideally I perform this maneuver from some distance away while our friendly neighborhood troll takes his shotgun to town on the now weakened target and (hopefully) the large BOOM you spoke of.   ;)

Kontact

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« Reply #5 on: <02-08-11/0501:54> »
Bursts rules don't assume that every bullet hits.  The damage staging doesn't really reflect that.

This does bring up the guy from Ghost Cartels who had an Uzi that fired 3 different chems in 3 round bursts.

Chem stacking is pretty broke.

Chaemera

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« Reply #6 on: <02-08-11/1321:30> »
I would say you need one dose per capsule.
So it would be 4830 nuyen for 10 rounds.

When my group looked at this, we had the same question, and I had the same initial answer.

Then, one of my players pointed out that a gas grenade presumably uses a single dose (since they fail to state that it requires more than one), but effectively covers a 10m radius.

In the interests of consistency, we therefore allowed a single "dose" to be effective for 10 capsule rounds.

A RAW perspective for 1 dose per bullet would argue for a gas grenade requiring approximately 315 doses to guarantee effectiveness (using the idea of a dose per person, one person per square meter in a ten-meter radius circle).

Neither is really a perfect solution, as 1 dose covering 10 bullets makes for fairly cheap, evil, ammo. But, without clarification of what's required for a gas grenade to be effective, those would be some very pricy grenades.

The third door is to accept the incongruity and say 1 dose per bullet, 1 dose per gas grenade. Though now, capsule rounds are nearly pointless as chemical delivery systems, since there are few contact chemicals that aren't also inhalation and therefore cheaper to use with gas grenades.
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Teyl_Iliar

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« Reply #7 on: <02-08-11/1333:52> »
Once to pull off a plan that my team and I had planned out we used capsule rounds. our GM ruled they where 1 dose each and we loaded it full of kamikaze rounds and had one of our people open up on the crowd to start a full scale riot. while KE was distracted we then blew out part of the stage, to get access to our actual target, and escaped in the chaos of the down town area when it was all said and done.
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Kontact

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« Reply #8 on: <02-09-11/2302:34> »
The third door is to accept the incongruity and say 1 dose per bullet, 1 dose per gas grenade. Though now, capsule rounds are nearly pointless as chemical delivery systems, since there are few contact chemicals that aren't also inhalation and therefore cheaper to use with gas grenades.

There's always splash grenades for that contact goodness.  Inhalation isn't a prime choice because most responsive sec forces ought to have their own air.  Internal tanks are 650¥. Gas masks are 200¥.  Getting gassed is bush-league.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #9 on: <02-11-11/0333:49> »
You might run into some bush-leaguers once or twice, especially if you run around the Barrens.  But that depends on the missions you pull.

Personally, I like the idea of nanite-loaded capsule rounds.  You could even suspend them in a chemical substance of your choice for the one-two-punch combo.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."