[忍]

Amelia wakes up and goes to the kitchen to start her day. She stands before her toaster and coffee maker (both are devices). She begins using her toaster to surf SmokinDesigns for an image to cheer her up (forms a persona). While swiping through the options, she decides to look up Soybuck's frappe-of-the-day on her coffee maker. To her dismay both the toaster and coffee maker shutdown and reboot. Amelia's morning is not so sunny-side up.

When a person uses a device to connect to the matrix, the device's icon is subsumed by the persona's icon . . . You can only run one persona at a time; switching requires you to reboot both the device you're currently on and the device to which you want to shift your persona.

Do I have this right?

[Ghost Rigger]

I'm not an expert on the Matrix, but I think this isn't the correct case. If she's accessing the Matrix just by pressing meatspace or even AR buttons on those devices, her Persona doesn't come into so let's assume she's doing all this wirelessly. In that case, she's connecting to the Matrix through the commlink (or cyberdeck or RCC) she's running her Persona on, and so there isn't any reason for any device to reboot.

[Kiirnodel]

While you are technically correct, the more likely scenario is that Amelia wakes up and grabs her commlink off her nightstand which forms her persona. She then accesses her coffee maker, which verifies ownership from the commlink and lets her do what she wants to do.

Most people aren't going to surf the Matrix on their Toaster, it's a peripheral device meant to serve a specific funtion. That would be similar to a Street Sam making Data Searches through his Smartlink. You could get a non-standard form factor commlink in the shape of a toaster if you really wanted I suppose.

[firebug]

You can only form a persona on a commlink, cyberdeck, or RCC.  Other devices need a specific modification installed from Data Trails.

[忍]

While you are technically correct, the more likely scenario is that Amelia wakes up and grabs her commlink off her nightstand which forms her persona. She then accesses her coffee maker, which verifies ownership from the commlink and lets her do what she wants to do.

Most people aren't going to surf the Matrix on their Toaster, it's a peripheral device meant to serve a specific funtion. That would be similar to a Street Sam making Data Searches through his Smartlink. You could get a non-standard form factor commlink in the shape of a toaster if you really wanted I suppose.

/satire

My point being is that devices use the matrix, people use devices, and device icons become persona icons (as of RAW). This would make using two devices accessing the matrix tedious and counter intuitive.

[firebug]

Did you miss what I said?

Only commlinks, cyberdecks, and RCC can form a persona.  This is rules as written.  So your scenario isn't what happens.

The device in Shadowrun probably doesn't have buttons on it to manipulate it, there's no need (besides an on/off button).  The normal user would be viewing AR, logged in with their commlink (so they can access their grid subscription, user settings, and so forth) and access the appliances that way.  If a persona is even needed for this at all.

[忍]

So when does a device connect to the matrix?

My point is less focused, though not disregarding, on forming a persona and more focused on a person using a device to interact with the matrix. Or perhaps can the two not occur without the other? Are they intrinsically bound? 

[Novocrane]

When the device is wireless active.

[Jack_Spade]

Looking through the rules I just noticed something: There is no requirement to form a persona to use matrix actions in general.
It seems to be implied, but it actually isn't really spelled out as far as I can see.

So depending on the device it could be enough to give voice commands to control its actions as long as it's recognizing you as its owner.

[ClaytonCross]

Not sure where this crazy "interpretation" comes from that any interaction with the matrix causes you to create a persona. That is not RAW. Quote below.

Personas SR5 p218
"A persona is more or less what it sounds like: a person in the Matrix. A persona is the combination of a user and a device that gets the user onto the Matrix. The fact that the device has a user overrides the device’s normal icon status, turning it into a persona. A persona is usually based on a commlink, cyberdeck, or rigged vehicle or drone, although technomancers are a sort of device-less persona."

You are not "in the matrix" unless you are ... jumped into the matrix. Cold-sim or hot-sim. You are not "in" the matrix answering your commlink or turning on the coffee machine or any activity that lets you log into the matrix using an account. that could be "Guest".

There is a BIG difference between ACCESSING the matrix and ENTERING the matrix. You can be on the internet surfing the forums with out being in the matrix like Neo.

[Novocrane]

You are not "in the matrix" unless you are ... jumped into the matrix.

I disagree. The next line?

A persona is the combination of a user and a device that gets the user onto the Matrix.

If you are interacting with the Matrix, then you are a combination of user and device that is 'getting you onto the Matrix'. Yes, this is necessarily through a commlink, RCC, cyberdeck, or persona firmware upgraded device. You are also at a point in which a multidimensional coprocessor can 'speed up Matrix signals and commands', provided your meat speed is not X+5d6.

[Kiirnodel]

The problem is that there is no practical difference between someone interacting with the Matrix through AR and someone simply using Physical initiative. There isn't some action that swaps a user from using the Matrix vs not using the Matrix. So are you suggesting that a character should have two separate initiatives? If they don't take a Matrix action do they suddenly lose the extra 1d6? You can't give a person in AR a bonus to Initiative only on the Matrix...

[firebug]

Yeah, seriously, that doesn't work and can't be intended.  If such a thing would be intended, somewhere in any of the books would explain something for the criteria of what has to be done to benefit from your "AR matrix iniative bonus".  Do you get the bonus as long as you have the commlink on?  Do you have to take an action related to the matrix each turn?  Is a Free Action to send a message with DNI enough?  Does it have to be at least Simple?  The books would mention this.

If it was how it worked, every character ever needs to hardwire a Multidimensional Coprocessor into their commlink.  Faces, mages, street samurai, all getting an extra +1d6.  That's without a doubt not how it's intended to function.

[Novocrane]

At the end of each initiative pass, subtract 10 from each character's initiative score. Characters with a score higher than 0 get to go again during a second Initiative Pass. This process is repeated until all characters have an Initiative Score of 0 or less, the Combat Turn ends, or the combat ends.

There isn't some action that swaps a user from using the Matrix vs not using the Matrix.

There is no reason for it to exist. You do not switch to AR, you are always in AR. The difference now is that you have additional initiative that only applies to AR, not physical, rather than being indivisibly both. If there was truly no difference between the two, they wouldn't even need to specify AR as an initiative type.

The books would mention this.

Page 229.

Faces, mages, street samurai, all getting an extra +1d6.

Sorry, now you're just being silly and conflating AR initiative with physical initiative. Under which circumstances are any of those going to prefer +1d6 matrix initiative over, say, an agent that can do matrix activities for them?

[Kiirnodel]

So by that logic, you are always in AR, which means that AR initiative is the same as your Physical initiative. And yet you are also claiming that you have some added initiative that is added to AR only? So again, how do you have non-Physical AR initiative?