Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Unadept on <01-13-13/1018:31>
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Hey, all,
So, I'm considering making a magician character that focuses on Conjuration and works through his spirits in the Astral, but he needs to keep up with his party as well. To this end, I've been considering the Transys Steed from Arsenal, but I'm worried that it won't have enough defense for him. Looking around, I found the Rigger Cocoon, and was wondering if it was appropriate to strap a rigger cocoon into a Transys Steed? It basically seems like a bag with a seat in it, and with Armor 20 and Structure 10, which is pretty good, as armor goes- wouldn't protect the Steed, but would protect the mage.
I would also want to drop a Ward on that- I see no reason why I couldn't, and the mage should be able to project through without problems, as mana barriers don't affect their creators (our group has already ruled that mobile walls, like trucks, can be warded). I was also going to put an Endoscope or Mage Sight Goggles in that, so I can cast spells through that.
Is this not kosher in any way?
Thanks.
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Other than the fact that everyone would think you're a Rigger or a Decker until the magic started...
Geek The Mage First is still a rule, but that would make for one hell of a hard way to Geek The Mage!
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Well, at least until the Assault Cannon-Equipped Drones start popping out.
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I was considering running it in Stand Alone mode, and communicating with it via 'trodes, so it couldn't be hacked.
In theory, I could do something similar with Possession spirits and some Enchanting, but the Homunculi rules are notoriously inexact.
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I was considering running it in Stand Alone mode, and communicating with it via 'trodes, so it couldn't be hacked.
In theory, I could do something similar with Possession spirits and some Enchanting, but the Homunculi rules are notoriously inexact.
You need to slap Pimped Ride on it too and make it look like a Dalek. Then if people fall over for no clear reason they wont think MAGE, more very cheap special effects. 8)
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Ha! Yes!
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This makes me think. If Mirrors count as indirect line of sight, what about cameras? :o
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You should be fine with this since the drone is designed to carry passengers... though it's not a kevlar flexible body armor bag (which is far less armor than that see p48 arsenal).. 20/20 armor is far more than the heaviest military combat armor suit... it also has no view ports which is very important to you. Look at the barrier table in SR4a (a security door is only rating 8 armor for comparison sake).
Effectively you put a big fold open windowless plasteel box where the seat is and you climb in.
It means you cannot provide counterspelling to allies unless you're astrally projecting and you can see their astrally active forms (no help to the mundane members of your party). You cannot target spells through it since it is not worn armor and you're blind. and reliant on vehicle sensors.
Your GM may have issues with such a small drone carrying that much weight though.
If he does here's an alternate suggestion... it's a large drone... but it comes with both walker mode and a valkyrie module built in (cocoon plus high rating medkit/autodoc).
The CrashCart drone in the main book. Not only that you can spend 1 mod point to up armor the drone itself to 12 obvious.. or 2 points for 10 concealed (the max).
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I'll keep a weather-eye on the Crash Cart drone, in case the Steed doesn't work.
But if I installed Mage Sight goggles in the cocoon, wouldn't I still be able to see my team and thus provide counterspelling and spells? Might have some flare-comp problems, but still.
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Think about that... the mage sight goggle is more or less a small very limited field of view lens at the end of a fiber optic cable. (think of those things that doctors snake into peoples asses to look inside... or for looking inside the body while doing some surgeries).
How exactly are you keeping your entire team in your field of view with that? Especially in combat conditions? Especially if you're using it to look at enemies to cast spells at them. When your view of the world is like looking through a cardboard tube all the time with no peripheral vision.
Also don't forget casting spells through optics like that is a dice pool negative as well.
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I could just as easily use a Periscope, rather than a myomeric rope, which should allow for greater vision.
And yes, I'm aware there are penalties, but this is going to be a largely Conjuring-based character, so throwing Combat spells left and right isn't entirely the goal, though nice to have as backup.
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This makes me think. If Mirrors count as indirect line of sight, what about cameras? :o
Cameras do not. Baseline rule of magic. What it boils down to is that the photons bouncing off your target have to be the same photons that go into the mage's eyes; no conversion, no image, nothing along those lines. Mirrors, and by extension the magesight goggles (photon-conducting fiber optics along with, er, mirrors), do the job. The moment you put electronics between yourself and the target, you interrupt line of sight.
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What about a telescope?(cue firing a mana bolt at aircraft)
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Yes. Telescope, standard binoculars, yes. Electronic enhancements interfere, however, so you're stuck with standard techniques - either the huuuge starlight binox, or just watching carefully, or having essence-paid implants, etc. etc.
* - This is me being nice.
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Yup it still screams Daleks to me. Rigger Cocoon with Mage Sight Goggles explain poor Dalek vision. Even the fact they can`t climb stairs is due to a lack of mod slots for Smart Tires lets seee, in very rough form.
Vehicle Daiatsu-Caterpillar Horseman with Advanced Cargo Module (PMV)
System 3
Firewall 3
Response 3
Signal 3
Category Personal Mobility Vehicles Source AR107
Body 6 Clearsight
Armor 12 Defense
Pilot 1 Electronic Warfare
Sensor 2 Maneuver
Sensor Signal 5 Targeting
Device Rating 3 Analyze
Acceleration 8/16 Encrypt
Speed 60 Scan
Handling 1 Armor
Vehicle Worth 54900 ECCM
Applicable Active Skills
SKILL NAME POOL RTG. ATT.
Gunnery 0 0 1 (AGI)
Navigation 0 0 1 (INT)
MODS
Armor, Normal Rating 12
Mechanical Grapple
Pimped Ride Level 2
Rigger Adaptation
Rigger Cocoon, Enhanced
Weapon Mount (Normal, External, Fixed, Remote)
GEAR
Vehicle Sensor
WEAPON DAMAGE AP MODE RC AMMO
Ares MP Laser 3 7P -half SA 0 2x5(c) orexternal source AR 41
Smartgun System
S: 0-100 M: 101-250 L: 251-500 E: 501-750
RANGED WEAPONS
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The Steed has Smart Tires pre-equipped, luckily, not that I don't appreciate the comparison.
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Put in a horn that shouts, "Exterminate! Exterminate!" and you'll be set. Sounds especially great for a para- or quadriplegic. Though y'know, it still goes to show that you should always kill the Daleks before anyone else ...
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And people wonder why I suggest bringing the One-Shot LAW to back up the PAC on milk runs.
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I would never wonder why. A one-shot rocket should be standard issue for every shadowrunner team, for every mission. Remember, kids, there are very few personal problems that can't be solved by a suitable application of high explosives...
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You obviously didn't note the utterly pathetic damage rating on the one shot LAW in the book.
Even worse you didn't note the -6 damage per scatter... then bother to look at the scatter rules for rockets.... which pretty much ensure that a LAW will never work unless you're both...
A. insanely lucky... AND...
B. insanely good with heavy weapons
If it weren't for the absolutely awful implementation of rockets and scatter in the game I'd agree... a one-shot LAW would be a great addition to many teams kit...
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Man, you're just offensive everywhere, aren't you?
Sorry, Falconer, I haven't ignored anything. I play, and I GM, and neither myself nor any GM I've ever played with are slaves to the rules the way you certainly seem to be. So ... you play however you want, but please - remember you aren't The Shadowrun Guru by any stretch of the imagination.
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You obviously didn't note the utterly pathetic damage rating on the one shot LAW in the book.
Even worse you didn't note the -6 damage per scatter... then bother to look at the scatter rules for rockets.... which pretty much ensure that a LAW will never work unless you're both...
A. insanely lucky... AND...
B. insanely good with heavy weapons
If it weren't for the absolutely awful implementation of rockets and scatter in the game I'd agree... a one-shot LAW would be a great addition to many teams kit...
Or when the person lines up the shot they beat the HELL out of the rules using Edge 8) Granted dreadful Heavy Weapons is a balance issue but I fluff it away as the point at which Shadowrun differs tech wise from us. They get better materiels tech and electronics and we get missile systems that can hit desk blotters from the next State.
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Excuse me... for having the temerity to point out the equipment rules in an official game forum.
If anyone is being offensive here Wyrm... it's you. With lots of pointless insults not of the system or rules... but aimed squarely at the poster. If you don't like the rules that's fine. I'm not the one who wrote them. By pointing out how horrendously bad it's my hope they FIX them.
But the ad hominems which seem to be your preferred attack form don't do anyone any good on these forums.
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You obviously didn't note the utterly pathetic damage rating on the one shot LAW in the book.
Even worse you didn't note the -6 damage per scatter... then bother to look at the scatter rules for rockets.... which pretty much ensure that a LAW will never work unless you're both...
A. insanely lucky... AND...
B. insanely good with heavy weapons
If it weren't for the absolutely awful implementation of rockets and scatter in the game I'd agree... a one-shot LAW would be a great addition to many teams kit...
This is offensive. This isn't pointing out equipment rules; this is attacking me. "You obviously didn't note ... Even worse you didn't note ..."
Pointing out issues with equipment would be 'I disagree. Between the pathetic damage on it, the damage reduction on the scatter, and the scatter rules for rockets, a one-shot LAW is a bad choice. if those were fixed, it'd be a great addition.'
You didn't do that; you attacked me, and now backpedal (amusingly using a term I've only recently used as being applicable to your own failed-logic attacks on two certain authors) by claiming I'm attacking, and that you're just pointing out equipment rules.
Yeah. Right. Pull the other one, it plays 'God Save the Queen'.
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Yeah. Right. Pull the other one, it plays 'God Save the Queen'.
What does the first one play?
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Try glass walls, with AR spray on the other side showing an actual Rigger Cocoon. Then line it with Smart Armour. They use ammo designed to blow through armor? A little explosion counters it. Glass, like the stuff used at Hockey Games, is actually 'bullet proof', and can resist at least a handful of shots.
Line of Sight isn't impaired at all, since photons and the like are still passing through the glass. However, any Street Sam worth their salt is going to have their smartlink up while they shoot at the Dalek (Who now has explosive 'studs' on his main body), and they'll be dealing with your Smart Armor.
Also, significantly cheaper than wrapping yourself in a tin can designed to take grenades.
This thread is now about Mages, Daleks, and protective measures. You're welcome.
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No idea what the other one plays Canray...
I've just noticed his standard argument involves not addressing the other sides points or just realizing that his opinion is as valid as others on a web forum. But instead goes to attack the other poster directly. Call them mentally deficient for not seeing the glorious wisdom of his opinion. Or attacking them for pointing out rules in this case.... because in his opinion house rules are the answer.
But in a few games I tried exactly that keeping a cheap LAW around for that gtfo option... until I tried to use it and realized that the missile by the rules was so hopelessly inaccurate that even edging it wouldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Unless we hedged the rules to consider the barn a very large target and scattering 3m to one side or the other still hit it. But yeah the scattering rules are a bad joke on anyone who tries to use them. We simply try to keep house rules to a minimum generally for consistency. (if one guy runs with these rules and another one these... people get confused).
I_V_Saur:
Interesting... but a bullet or puck is a much different animal than an explosive blast wave.
I'd double check those barrier rules for armor glass. It would most likely be blown out by the smart armor going off.
In which case the rigger is still in a world of hurt... as the OP's wheelchair drone still doesn't have armored passenger protection.....
By the time you're pulling something like this need a big vehicle though (that glass is heavy!)... not a large drone like crash cart or a smaller one like the motorized wheelchair.
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*Waves white flag*
My two cents, Falconer didn't (Unless he edited) quote anyone in particular in his first post on this page.
Uses of the word "you" when used in a critical post can lead to a slippery slope, and should be avoided most of the time.
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Falconer: Eh, yeah, the explosions probably would mess up anyone inside, even with Plexiglass. (Just remembered the name now.) It might be considered 'overkill' to have three or five layers of plexiglass overlapping, at least one cm apart each, with the outside two or four lined with Smart Armour. Yeah, you lose part of a layer, but it should be plausible, though costly, to stop even a minigun for a Round or two. For a Mage, able to cast LoS, to have that kind of protection, even one-shot, would be worth it on high-risk missions. Have a Trode Net or something on the final layer broadcasting the Dalek skin, so the enemy, if they're using AR, can't even see the damage they're doing.
Now I want to play a Dalek Rigger. Definitely sounds amusing, and I could have my main Drones share the same motif, so nobody would even know which one to shoot.
Come to think of it, hiding inside your own remote-controlled weapon has already been done by Naruto.
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Yeah... I'm just trying to think how you'd actually do it working within the construction rules... (sorry I just think it's more interesting trying to do things within the system).
The best I can think of is some variant on the horseman PMV. With obvious armor(1), smart armor (2), personal armor (1)... then your smart windshields to display are another (1).... At that point you only have 1 mod slot left... enough for the cocoon if you so desire... but again... you're seeing nothing out of a cocoon... and any of your options periscope... magesight... are going to so constrain your field of view that counterspelling your team is going to be hard keeping them in view.
Since a lot of the daleks can fly... you might aim at that ares replacement for the old redball drone in the RBB (name escapes me)... but with bod 6 and a lot of cargo capacity... it could concievablly carry a coccon and passenger... though some GM's call for using special cargo/equipment (2) to carry up to a 6 body person on a drone. With special equipment mod though you might be able to argue for a more traditional vehicle approach with a heavy armored glass windshield... (but that sucker as a drone technically can get the 18 armor rating... so you may not need the rigger cocoon with it!).
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'Course, the major problem with a Shadowrunner having something like this, and eventually getting a reputation, will end up with discussions like this...
"What the HELL is that? It just took out Alpha Squad!" "I'm calling it a damned good reason to call in the Metroplex Guard." "Yeah, tell them to send everybody."
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Cool someone stat us up one of the Flying ones please. I could see the English and people who bought into Dr Who merchandising buying legal harmless ones with shockbeams/sonic weapons it`s just Runners and people with a dry sense of humour who would weaponise something that looks very well armoured into something that is indeedy very well armoured. Given me a GREAT idea for an E-Ghost thanks all!
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I'm seeing some dude in a robe mumbling some mojo from inside of an oversized hamster ball. "Now to compliment your magesight goggles we bring you, The Mage Ball! Our patented design is sure to allow your mojo slinger to get that much needed exercise, without having to fear for his life at the first sight of hellhounds! (Magesight is not responsible for ballistic incurred damage, do not attempt to come within close proximity of hellhounds.)"
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I'm seeing some dude in a robe mumbling some mojo from inside of an oversized hamster ball. "Now to compliment your magesight goggles we bring you, The Mage Ball! Our patented design is sure to allow your mojo slinger to get that much needed exercise, without having to fear for his life at the first sight of hellhounds! (Magesight is not responsible for ballistic incurred damage, do not attempt to come within close proximity of hellhounds.)"
Thanks for that image I laughed out loud at that and startled the cat. Not as silly an idea as first thought as one way glass would allow him to still cast. Granted stealth goes out of the window as the Street Sam helps to rumble the disco ball down the secure corporate corridor...
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Definitely a 'Pink Mohawk' level party favor. Useful, though. Group of Corp-Sec? Punt the Mage down the hall to run them over. As a Drone, with retractable spikes, it'd be a pretty nasty surprise. I'm pretty sure that Daleks are best suited to Drones.
Talking physics, I don't think any amount of AR-Spray will let you pull a 'chameleon'. No amount of sensors and AR can account for the simple physics of "It's a ball"
Images just can't twist that way. Not even with MilSpec Hologram tech and top-rating sensors, computed by an A.I.
And, with just AR spray, anyone who has their view set to 'normal' instead of AR will see right through it.
Hey, wait. A SURGE-ed Mage with Compound Eyes already has the theoretical capacity to see pretty far around themselves. What if their eyeballs were surgically taken apart, placed, through adhesive, up to different Magesight Goggles poking through a Rigger Cocoon, with the biological connection to the brain cloned, stretched, and sprayed with a frequent nutrient mist? It might have a 'gap' or two, but it's theoretically doable.
Of course, the lucky Subject Zero of such an effort would be an Azzie corporate citizen.
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Actually AR spray doesn't necessarily block vision.
With just a 'transparency' level... so that all AR appears as a ghostly overlay of what's really in view.