[Raiderjoseph]

Haze is a Street Legend NPC (found in Street Legends, pg 26) on Jackpoint who has been accused of using mind control type spells in some pretty messed up ways that if your players tried pulling the same stuff they would earn such an rep/noteriety that nobody would hire him and they would be pretty much Kill on sight with most everyone.

But because he is a Jackpointer and the first rule of JP is generally don't judge one other(the second being don't use JP to jack each other), afterall they all have some skeleton or another in their own respective closets, he is still walking around and breathing just fine.

The third rule being rules one and two should not apply in respect to Clockwork (even though they apparently still do), because he's broken them?

Isnt Clockwork the guy who tried to have that Techomancer chick geeked?

[MijRai]

Nah, he's only tried to sell NetCat to the Megacorporations (NeoNet, if I remember right, or maybe Mitsuhama) what, twice now?  Or was it three times?  No biggie, right?  Not to mention the repeated threats to kidnap and sell her infant son recently, and creeper comments that suggest he's been spying on their family...  Clockwork is totally not culpable... 

I honestly don't get why they let the swarthy git keep on walking at this point. 

[BetaCAV]

I honestly don't get why they let the swarthy git keep on walking at this point.

Neither do most of them, but he was invited/recruited by someone (Fastjack?) they don't want to disrespect.

But when the day comes they change their mind, Slamm-O! (among others) are willing to go to town on him without stopping to turn off the soykaf machine on their way out the door.

*cue the flatvid advert, "I wish this day could last forever..."*

[Sendaz]

Haze is a Street Legend NPC (found in Street Legends, pg 26) on Jackpoint who has been accused of using mind control type spells in some pretty messed up ways that if your players tried pulling the same stuff they would earn such an rep/noteriety that nobody would hire him and they would be pretty much Kill on sight with most everyone.

But because he is a Jackpointer and the first rule of JP is generally don't judge one other(the second being don't use JP to jack each other), afterall they all have some skeleton or another in their own respective closets, he is still walking around and breathing just fine.

The third rule being rules one and two should not apply in respect to Clockwork (even though they apparently still do), because he's broken them?

Well Rule one has always been more a guideline anyway and in the case of rule two, technically Clockwork did not violate rule two.  According to CW all his actions vs Netcat took place outside JP, including any online coordination out of respect to FJ.


But yeah when he made the comment about the kid, it just shows there is a serious disconnect somewhere.

[Mirikon]

So the 'never trust an elf' thing came from one of the early novels. But the sentiment behind it is easy to figure out. Elves are the 'beautiful people', same as the glitterati and other sorts today. A pretty face can open a helluvalot of doors, especially when you combine the fact that many elves work their way into wealth and influence (and don't get me started on the ones that have been hanging around since the last age of magic). Pretty people get a better break than ugly people in 90% of situations. You know it. I know it. We might not like it, but that's chip truth. And let's be honest, we resent the pretty people for having those breaks, not the least because we wish, on some level, we were them, no matter what we say. And when the pretty people get it in their head that they DESERVE more, just because they're pretty, that pisses some people off. When they have the ability to make it happen, that's even worse. And on top of it all, they have a life span conservatively estimated at several centuries, and will look pretty for damn near all of that time, well, that's just kicking them when they're down.

[Raiderjoseph]

Haze is a Street Legend NPC (found in Street Legends, pg 26) on Jackpoint who has been accused of using mind control type spells in some pretty messed up ways that if your players tried pulling the same stuff they would earn such an rep/noteriety that nobody would hire him and they would be pretty much Kill on sight with most everyone.

But because he is a Jackpointer and the first rule of JP is generally don't judge one other(the second being don't use JP to jack each other), afterall they all have some skeleton or another in their own respective closets, he is still walking around and breathing just fine.

The third rule being rules one and two should not apply in respect to Clockwork (even though they apparently still do), because he's broken them?

Well Rule one has always been more a guideline anyway and in the case of rule two, technically Clockwork did not violate rule two.  According to CW all his actions vs Netcat took place outside JP, including any online coordination out of respect to FJ.


But yeah when he made the comment about the kid, it just shows there is a serious disconnect somewhere.

Both my characters would geek him without hesitation if they found out he made a comment like that. Even if it wasnt aimed at them. :/ But I guess they couldnt join Jackpoint then.

[Rosa]

As Mirikon said the expression comes from the shadowrun novel "Never trust an Elf" by Robert Charette, where the main character ( an Ork named Kham ) gets involved in some nasty power struggles.

Also given the fact, as have already been mentioned by several people, elves have that nice charisma boost, which properly Means that there are quite a few elven Mr. Johnsons..etc. So it's not inconceivable that quite a few runners have tried to be screwed over by the smiling elf in the nice suit with the toothpaste perfect smile.
That being said you should absolutely always trust an elf, they really are very trustworthy and quite nice to be around and anything said to the contrary is of course just malicious smear campaigns by people, WHO are too lazy to go out and get the nicer Things in life for themselves and therefore resents those that have worked hard to get where they are 

[Raiderjoseph]

As Mirikon said the expression comes from the shadowrun novel "Never trust an Elf" by Robert Charette, where the main character ( an Ork named Kham ) gets involved in some nasty power struggles.

Also given the fact, as have already been mentioned by several people, elves have that nice charisma boost, which properly Means that there are quite a few elven Mr. Johnsons..etc. So it's not inconceivable that quite a few runners have tried to be screwed over by the smiling elf in the nice suit with the toothpaste perfect smile.
That being said you should absolutely always trust an elf, they really are very trustworthy and quite nice to be around and anything said to the contrary is of course just malicious smear campaigns by people, WHO are too lazy to go out and get the nicer Things in life for themselves and therefore resents those that have worked hard to get where they are 

Found the elf.

[Patrick Goodman]

I might have missed something, since I just kinda skimmed this, but if you're referring to the hate throughout the game...it started as a Tolkien reference. In Middle-Earth, the dwarves typically distrust the elves. Since Tolkien also exists in the Sixth World, it seems like somebody took it to heart and started using it.

[Raiderjoseph]

I might have missed something, since I just kinda skimmed this, but if you're referring to the hate throughout the game...it started as a Tolkien reference. In Middle-Earth, the dwarves typically distrust the elves. Since Tolkien also exists in the Sixth World, it seems like somebody took it to heart and started using it.

They must have never read the ending to the hobbit where everyone in the west became friends.(or goodwill between them.)

[Patrick Goodman]

Or they chose to ignore it for the sake of the joke.... (I know the guys who wrote that stuff; they've read the books. )

[Sendaz]

Wonder if they read the Serrated Edge series by Mercedes Lackey & Co.

Very 90s elves with fast cars and faster magic.

The fact they all had severe allery to iron did make it interesting, though they did do wonders with aluminium, even making foamed aluminium to make lightweight but sturdy engine blocks and frames for their rides.

[ScytheKnight]

Wonder if they read the Serrated Edge series by Mercedes Lackey & Co.

Very 90s elves with fast cars and faster magic.

The fact they all had severe allery to iron did make it interesting, though they did do wonders with aluminium, even making foamed aluminium to make lightweight but sturdy engine blocks and frames for their rides.

Why am I not surprised someone posting here has read that series?

[Tarislar]

I might have missed something, since I just kinda skimmed this, but if you're referring to the hate throughout the game...it started as a Tolkien reference. In Middle-Earth, the dwarves typically distrust the elves. Since Tolkien also exists in the Sixth World, it seems like somebody took it to heart and started using it.

I'd say Patrick is in the know on this & was thinking the same thing.


Beyond that reason, while much of the other stuff mentioned is interesting, I'm not sure it really relates to "trusting" an Elf.

For me it comes down to the following.
1.  Elves outlive everyone else.
2.  Elves "Look" Superior   (that charisma thing)
3.  When you "Look" Superior, you might start to "Feel" Superior.
4.  When you "Feel" Superior you might start to "Think you Are" Superior.
5.  When you think your superior to everyone around you,  AND,  your going to outlive them all with your Longevity, you might start to think other people don't matter.
6.  When you don't give a crap about everyone else around you, your not very trustworthy to them   

Lets face it, are You going to trust that stuck up jerk when your life is on the line...........Newp.

[Rosa]

Also the early history of the awakening must have something to do with it. The way that Tir Tairngire and Tir na Nog basically almost springs into existence overnight with a readily supplied culture, a language of their own and even their own Unique magical tradition ( in TNN atleast ) must have left a lot of people thinking "Hmm, these Guys know something...and they aren't sharing it with the rest of us". And Ehrans speech to the Young Elven Technologists probably didn't help that perception http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Humans_and_the_Cycle_of_Magic.