[Raiderjoseph]

Why cant you ever trust them? Its kinda weird... whats the deal? Whats the precedent?

[Beta]

Are you talking about things said in some of the books?  On the boards?

Also note that there are
- "just elves" (all meta-humans of the elven persuasion)
- elves associated with the (frequently insular and arrogant) elven nations, which may lead some to think of elven conspiracies
- a handful of immortal elves, some of whom have been around for many thousand years, and are basically like dragons in meta-human bodies when it comes to how you should probably view them.

[Raiderjoseph]

Are you talking about things said in some of the books?  On the boards?

Also note that there are
- "just elves" (all meta-humans of the elven persuasion)
- elves associated with the (frequently insular and arrogant) elven nations, which may lead some to think of elven conspiracies
- a handful of immortal elves, some of whom have been around for many thousand years, and are basically like dragons in meta-human bodies when it comes to how you should probably view them.

All of the above?... give my any and all applicatable answers please.

[Sendaz]

Hate elves?

I LOVE elves.

Butter basted and cooked over a low heat for several hours, the meat just sliiiiiiiiides off the bone.

Oh you mean in social settings?

*ahem*

I don't think it's a matter of everyone hating all elves, though there are certainly groups out there with an ax to grind with the treehugger bridgade.

Rather you have to look at a series of situations that accumulate for the mistrust.

Elves are the pretty poster child for metahumanity.  They get born as elves, they never had that awkward goblinization that orcs and trolls got in the early days and are generally well accepted, if not held a bit in awe by many still despite them being around for a while now.

The rest don't get the same respect.
While dwarves have no real strikes against them, their smaller stature tends to have people relegate to a lower status or just overlooked in general.

Orcs and Trolls are perceived to be big and brutish, considered not too bright regardless of their achievements.
They rarely goblinize anymore but due to the appearances and preconceptions by many folk they are usually treated as second class or lower as knee jerk reaction.

It doesn't help that some elves try to play it that they actually are superior and some can be real dicks about it.
But again this is not common to all elves and there are some Orc or Troll groups with similar attitudes, but they are tiny in comparison and usually are relegated to ganger levels of operations unless you make a trip across the Pond to the Old Country to check out some of the Troll kingdoms, while the elves with this sort of attitude hold two countries of their own, the Tirs and their gang of the Ancients serve some of those powers.

Elves also get a lot longer lifespan, a bitter counterpoint to the shorter lived orcs. 
Now it is rare for any runner to die of old age, but some will still resent what it represents.

Then you have the Immortal Elves which is a whole basket of woes unto itself.
They are a plot device and a well used one, but it can grind some people's gears to think they are being pushed around as pawns.

[MijRai]

Yeah, a lot of what Sendaz said, but also...

Elves are innately 'nice' in demeanor.  Mechanics-wise, this is shown by starting with 3 and having a max of 8.  If you're running the shadows, that means a good modus operandi is nobody is nice, especially if they try to come across that way, and elves can do that subconsciously.  If the game were a 30s Noir setting, it'd be about dames with long legs or something. 

[Raiderjoseph]

These seem good. I was wondering why.

[Beta]

And from a player base perspective, elves get higher stats in two traits that are used by many key skills, which the other metas don't.  Which results in a lot of characters being elf for the extra die or two, I suspect.  So they can be a bit of a stereotype "Oh, what a surprise, another elf shaman with a charisma of 8"

[MijRai]

The only Elf with a Charisma-affiliated tradition I have at hand to play is pretty much a good example of why you should never trust an elf.  He's near Haze-level. 

[Raiderjoseph]

The only Elf with a Charisma-affiliated tradition I have at hand to play is pretty much a good example of why you should never trust an elf.  He's near Haze-level.

Who or what is Haze?

[Sendaz]

Haze is a Street Legend NPC (found in Street Legends, pg 26) on Jackpoint who has been accused of using mind control type spells in some pretty messed up ways that if your players tried pulling the same stuff they would earn such an rep/noteriety that nobody would hire him and they would be pretty much Kill on sight with most everyone.

But because he is a Jackpointer and the first rule of JP is generally don't judge one other(the second being don't use JP to jack each other), afterall they all have some skeleton or another in their own respective closets, he is still walking around and breathing just fine. 

[MijRai]

Some of the things Haze did (not all, but some) were while under the influence of Tempo, an Awakened drug that really messes your head.  My character wouldn't have that excuse.  He's being saved for a dark, gritty game. 

I disagree with him being kill on sight to everyone, but definitely for anyone whose life he messes up.  Megacorporations aren't going to care, for one (less morals in their pawns, more use they can wrangle out of them).  The less scrupulous in the shadows probably wouldn't care overly much either. 

[Raiderjoseph]

Some of the things Haze did (not all, but some) were while under the influence of Tempo, an Awakened drug that really messes your head.  My character wouldn't have that excuse.  He's being saved for a dark, gritty game. 

I disagree with him being kill on sight to everyone, but definitely for anyone whose life he messes up.  Megacorporations aren't going to care, for one (less morals in their pawns, more use they can wrangle out of them).  The less scrupulous in the shadows probably wouldn't care overly much either.

Gotcha.

[Sendaz]

I never said Haze was KOS, I said if your players did what he was doing they would get the KOS order at most tables, because that is the threat a lot of GMs use to keep Mind Control magic usage in check or they have the Gentlemen's agreement to limit it where if it gets used to much the GM will reply in kind using MC on the players and things tend to get real ugly real fast then.

MC has always been a touchy subject.

Shoot someone in the chest.  Fine, they walk it off.

Take control of their mind to make them do the macarena and they will hunt you down to the ends of the earth. 

[MijRai]

That is a good point.  It's why I've never played the guy; it'd take a particular kind of game, with everyone agreeing beforehand that we aren't playing nice, to make him viable.  Otherwise my innate niceness would tone him down, or there'd be problems. 

[BetaCAV]

Haze is a Street Legend NPC (found in Street Legends, pg 26) on Jackpoint who has been accused of using mind control type spells in some pretty messed up ways that if your players tried pulling the same stuff they would earn such an rep/noteriety that nobody would hire him and they would be pretty much Kill on sight with most everyone.

But because he is a Jackpointer and the first rule of JP is generally don't judge one other(the second being don't use JP to jack each other), afterall they all have some skeleton or another in their own respective closets, he is still walking around and breathing just fine.

The third rule being rules one and two should not apply in respect to Clockwork (even though they apparently still do), because he's broken them?