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[SR5] Chrome Flesh

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Wakshaani

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« Reply #240 on: <08-27-15/1317:21> »
Wow, that's amazing, haha. What's your favorite set of addons to spend all that Capacity on, then? I like the idea of a mechanic with a Tank! body who has several different Built-in Toolkits, as a whole array of weird tools on arms that pop out of their chassis.

Well, my rigger, Tater Tot, has a cyberarm with a toolkit in it, so, I'm partial to that kind of thing. A Tank! type has likely tossed subtlety out the window, so you're gonna see guns ... lots and lots of guns. Which is kind of why it was called Tank! after all. :D

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #241 on: <08-30-15/1855:21> »
@Wakshanni... why wasn't something like a Skillwire Expert System included? There was a whole lot of focus on trying to bring Skillwires into relevant play but not being able to reroll Edge is kinda punishing for a Skillwire Character?

Wakshaani

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« Reply #242 on: <08-30-15/2024:46> »
Answered over in the Eratta thread. Short form: Eitehr cheaper Skillwire stuff OR an Expert System, and I went with the lower cost of entry.

Hey, while we're here., I do have a favor to ask!

There's been a lot of talk about there being too much fluff in there, and we've seen reviews of the crunch, but would some of y'all mind reviewing teh FLUFF? Which stories are good, bad, or meh, which storyline aspects are good or bad, which sections you feel are too long and which you'd like to see more of, etc. Were the gear descriptions too long, too short, or about right? (Leaving aside teh rules, just the fluff, mind you!) Are there any plot seeds that you see that might be interesting, or areas that you'd like to see explored? (For instance, a while back I slipped in a mention of Wuxing making Qi foci in teh form of Luchador masks in Mexico. I don't think anyone picked up on that, so I likely won't follow up on it in the future, but, if there's some fluff that people *do* like, it may get expanded in the future.)

It's a harder thing to review, I know, but with the physical book hitting Wednesday (ask your local game store to order one today!), people will be in a better position to read, and I'm really curious what y'all feel is strong, weak, or whatever.

Be much obliged!

Mr. Grey

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« Reply #243 on: <08-31-15/0132:45> »
Answered over in the Eratta thread. Short form: Eitehr cheaper Skillwire stuff OR an Expert System, and I went with the lower cost of entry.

Hey, while we're here., I do have a favor to ask!

There's been a lot of talk about there being too much fluff in there, and we've seen reviews of the crunch, but would some of y'all mind reviewing teh FLUFF? Which stories are good, bad, or meh, which storyline aspects are good or bad, which sections you feel are too long and which you'd like to see more of, etc. Were the gear descriptions too long, too short, or about right? (Leaving aside teh rules, just the fluff, mind you!) Are there any plot seeds that you see that might be interesting, or areas that you'd like to see explored? (For instance, a while back I slipped in a mention of Wuxing making Qi foci in teh form of Luchador masks in Mexico. I don't think anyone picked up on that, so I likely won't follow up on it in the future, but, if there's some fluff that people *do* like, it may get expanded in the future.)

It's a harder thing to review, I know, but with the physical book hitting Wednesday (ask your local game store to order one today!), people will be in a better position to read, and I'm really curious what y'all feel is strong, weak, or whatever.

Be much obliged!

As someone who dropped out at the end of 3rd/beginning of 4th, I personally find the fluff to be one of the main reasons to bring me back to Shadowrun. It's a balancing act, but the way things are written strike me more as 2nd. 3rd had so many rules that the book (while great) just made me nod off.

With regards to Chrome Flesh, I find the story My Brother's Keeper to be well written. I think it captures the CFD problem really well.

The best fluff section for me was on the drugs and BTLs follow by the fixing what is broke. Both gave a good picture of what is going on and really bounced off story ideas for me to GM. The bioware section while full of information was the weakest as it was less about individuals and more about the entirety of the industry which feels like it should be more in a corporation book. The symbiot section did catch my eye as a fun little section that I could run off of.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #244 on: <08-31-15/1229:03> »
I'm sorry, but if I want a fragging novel, I'll go out and buy a novel. When I get a rules source book for a game, I guess I'm funny like that, but I want to see a good deal of actual rules rather than a bunch of short stories with a few rules just sort of thrown in.
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jim1701

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« Reply #245 on: <08-31-15/1951:49> »
I'm sorry, but if I want a fragging novel, I'll go out and buy a novel. When I get a rules source book for a game, I guess I'm funny like that, but I want to see a good deal of actual rules rather than a bunch of short stories with a few rules just sort of thrown in.

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Wakshaani

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« Reply #246 on: <08-31-15/2300:12> »
Noted.

However, if anyone that want sto chime in *about* the fluff, rather than how *much* there was, it'd be appreciated.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #247 on: <08-31-15/2303:54> »
Noted.

However, if anyone that want sto chime in *about* the fluff, rather than how *much* there was, it'd be appreciated.

That's the thing. When there is too much it becomes tiresome and less enjoyable.
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I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #248 on: <09-01-15/0238:55> »
Answered over in the Eratta thread. Short form: Eitehr cheaper Skillwire stuff OR an Expert System, and I went with the lower cost of entry.

Hey, while we're here., I do have a favor to ask!

There's been a lot of talk about there being too much fluff in there, and we've seen reviews of the crunch, but would some of y'all mind reviewing teh FLUFF? Which stories are good, bad, or meh, which storyline aspects are good or bad, which sections you feel are too long and which you'd like to see more of, etc. Were the gear descriptions too long, too short, or about right? (Leaving aside teh rules, just the fluff, mind you!) Are there any plot seeds that you see that might be interesting, or areas that you'd like to see explored? (For instance, a while back I slipped in a mention of Wuxing making Qi foci in teh form of Luchador masks in Mexico. I don't think anyone picked up on that, so I likely won't follow up on it in the future, but, if there's some fluff that people *do* like, it may get expanded in the future.)

It's a harder thing to review, I know, but with the physical book hitting Wednesday (ask your local game store to order one today!), people will be in a better position to read, and I'm really curious what y'all feel is strong, weak, or whatever.

Be much obliged!

Of course... I post enough about the Crunch between here & the Errata thread I'll give you my 2¥ on the Fluff. I'll preface it by saying that I HATED the CFD stuff though I'm coming around to just not liking it at this point. Ever since I realized last year that they were going to get and a spaceship(s) and leave... just been waiting for it to happen. Then this year the published material said that they were Monads & they want to get on a spaceship(s) and leave... so expecting them to do it soon, hopefully. I hated how stupid the new Battlestar Galactica ended in the final season and really want this "We are AI not Metahumans" revelation to finally happen, so they'll go away. Bug Spirits invading from the Metaplanes... yes! Dragon Civil Wars... yes! AI and esoteric ideas about what it means to be alive or xenomorphic differences during a zombie apocalypse... no! Just so any bias I have is laid out beforehand.

My brothers keeper was very well written with a poignant & heartfelt ending that it attempts to convey. It being CFD (or any kind of mind control plot device) really robs the sense of regret as well as the fleeting redemption from the death. When Darth Vader takes off his helmet & they talk before he dies.... he realizes that he was evil & had made all the wrong choices that led to that point. It provides an inner turmoil that anyone under any kind of mind control lacks. Yes it's sad just like killing your friend who got bit by a zombie but at a fundamental level it has no more storytelling impact than any other Natural Disaster. Life's a bitch... then you die!

The story from Clusterf*cked was great... that's my kind of run. Where you find a weak & greedy guard to prey on. Tell him you are only going to take a little so his greed can over power his sense, then steal everything not nailed down & shoot him in the head. Obviously he can't be trusted and has no loyalty, so you geek him cause there's no reason why he should be around to provide physical descriptions which he'll inevitably do. But then I'm probably a cold hearted bastard.

So then the rest of the chapter is more about CFD... not that big of a fan as stated.

The Chapter on Doc - Wagon & Street Docs was very well written & informative. It's just that a $2.99 pdf would have been a more appropriate place for it with a few  more pages added to it. Sourcebooks are cool & I really like reading the Lore but that's not the place for Splatbooks as a whole.

I've made this post long enough... I'll comment on more chapters later.

adzling

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« Reply #249 on: <09-02-15/1405:50> »
I can't agree enough.
Too much fluff is doltish in a rules book.
Just feels like catalyst is shoveling in tons of fluff causes it's cheaper to produce, basically it's cheap filler.
Please put this stuff in a novel or shadows in focus fluff book.
Stop the insanity and focus on quality, well written, play tested and edited rules books.

Kincaid

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« Reply #250 on: <09-02-15/1426:50> »
Where did you get the idea that there's a cost difference between producing crunch and fluff?  If anything, layout decisions would make crunch the cheaper of the two.
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Darzil

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« Reply #251 on: <09-02-15/1516:01> »
I suspect it just means there is an expectation that considering fluff is easier than playtesting/balancing crunch.

Though in the case of Shadowrun, fluff has to be compared with years of background, whereas balancing is sometimes less hard.

I suspect it's mainly that (though less in the case of this book, certainly with Run Faster), large amounts of fluff have made the cut where crunch on how rules work (eg Metasapients, Shapeshifters) didn't.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #252 on: <09-02-15/1858:46> »
@Wakshanni... so the Fluff for the "Wireless War of '74" was kinda neat & showed some of the backdeal ways that the Corps fuck each other over, the fact that Skillwires are DOGSHIT makes it irrelevant.  So the Crunch being totally unviable as a system means the greatest Fluff in the world can't save it from obscurity. There's no reason to ever use it for a Skill Monkey Role, from a straight numbers perspective. Skilljack 6 (30 Karma) + Skillwires 6 (60 Karma) + Chipjack 6 (3 Karma) just to buy into the system... then Activesoft 6 (15 Karma) of which you'll probably want a couple to fill your Skill/Chipjack to capacity with a monthly fee (10 Karma.)

Going Skills Priority A with Jack of All Trades is a much smarter things to do. It costs 25 Karma to go from 0 to 5 Skill Rating. That you can use Edge on and is always available to you. Lots of 6s with Specializations to start with 10 Skill Group points & you'll fill secondary Skills out within a few runs fairly easily. So the greatest Fluff in the world can't save bad Crunch & just gets lost in the overarching discontent.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #253 on: <09-02-15/1949:39> »
If you want to produce a good "fluff", then produce one that reverses all the CFD anti-nanotech stuff and get all the mechanically useful implants brought back down to reasonable levels of pricing as a result.
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adzling

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« Reply #254 on: <09-02-15/2045:51> »
No play-testing.

Imho it's a lot harder to create well thought out, balanced and carefully edited for clarity rules than it is to generate many short form fan fic.
The pool of people who can do the former well is much smaller than the pool that can do the latter.

+ History of Catalyst's 5e Srun products would seem to back up this assumption as the endless posts on this and other forums trying to fix borked rules and guess intent would indicate.

Anyhoo rant off ///

Where did you get the idea that there's a cost difference between producing crunch and fluff?  If anything, layout decisions would make crunch the cheaper of the two.