[TimTurry]

In dungeons and dragons you start 1st level, but you have a plan for what your character will look like at 5,10,15,and 20.  You have this path in mind because you have to make decisions along your growth that will make this journey possible (a poorly taken feat/skill/class could derail your plan).   You can even make decisions that will (intentionally) gimp your character at certain point (ex. levels 2-5) but will pay off later.  Do any of you do this in Shadowrun?  Would you admit it?

One thing I have noticed is that there is a group of players/gm’s in Shadowrun that hammer any such behavior.  They get so mad, as if you are breaking their world when you do this.  I don’t get it.  What if I want a character who will start off a hacker, but will get better with guns later on?  Or a mage that I have planned to get into hacking (with a trode) later on?  Should I take all those skills/attributes at low level @chargen?  If I think about this journey at chargen, and build him in way that will make the journey easier (read with fewer karma points), some think of it as a lack of roleplaying! I think the two are orthogonal.

For the rest of you, who (like me) enjoy the planning ahead, I had an idea.  Thanks to “Run Faster” there are multiple ways of making your character.  I use Chummer5 software to make mine (it is the best character generator I have ever seen – kudos to the authors).  The new Chummer5 has options where you can build with priority or add-to-ten or karma.  So, build the (pre-planned) character you want to play long-term via priority, making sure you take all the skills that your char will have later (for example at karma=chargen+400), but you don’t add the 400 karma.  Then use the “karma” method to build the exact same character (at chargen level).  See how much karma you used.  You can use this value to see how optimized (dirty word) your design was.  For example, I made an elf mage using add-to-ten.  Then using the 800 karma method built the same char.  This time, it took 1075 karma to make exactly the same char.  1075/800=134%.  Not sure what to do with that number other than to think, if it dropped below 100%, I should have used the karma method.

The idea is not to change the char you want to play in order to maximize the number, but just a measure of how you built him.  If you really wanted to maximize the ratio, I bet a troll with maxed str/body would do well.

[Medicineman]

I most often Plan ahead .
I have a Karmaplan (what to buy /learn/raise ) that goes ahead 100,150 or even  up to 200 Karma.
But it is just a Guideline, it's not written in Stone, things can and will change due to Ingame Actions and Decisions.
But generally Yes, I plan ahead

>>One thing I have noticed is that there is a group of players/gm’s in Shadowrun that hammer any such behavior.  They get so mad, as if you are breaking their world when you do this. 

Now I'm flabbergasted
But Ok, sometimes I hear from Dickhead GMs .....seems to be the same case ? I dunno whats the Point of such a behaviour ??

>>  Or a mage that I have planned to get into hacking (with a trode) later on?
not a Good Idea because it costs so much Karma and ¥
Your Char won't like that as Your ....kinda gimping Your Char yourself.
I'd advise against that

>>For example, I made an elf mage using add-to-ten.  Then using the 800 karma method built the same char.  This time, it took 1075 karma to make exactly the same char.  1075/800=134%.  Not sure what to do with that number other than to think, if it dropped below 100%, I should have used the karma method.

this won't happen as Prio Chars (or SUM to Ten ) Chars will often be the equivalent of 950-1050 Karma Chars
especially if You optimise and also if You use Chars with high Attributes ( Troll Brawler with STR10 or Elfen Face with CHA 10  etc)

JahtaHey
Medicineman

[SlipperyChummer]

Only started recently, but I think I'm best off making a mostly-specialized PC at chargen, who throws lots of dice at his specialty but isn't totally gimped outside of it (for example, you want edge, soak, composure, and a point of etiquette on any PC). Once the game starts, you can cheaply raise whatever areas were neglected. Planning is fine in my book, as long as you don't brag about it.


Talking about your build is a great way to piss off your group. Don't even mention your build if you can avoid it. Keep your "shopping list" (for both karma and nuyen) secret until your PC goes about acquiring its contents. If you need to submit a build to your GM before play, don't send him anything until you have a passable backstory to put alongside it. Try to prepare story or roleplaying reasons behind your character-building decisions, rather than mechanics ones. For example: Your magician isn't getting a pain editor so he can cheese out a half-dozen spirits before every run, but to mitigate the kind of intense pain he felt when he tried to overcast a manabolt last session.

[Hibiki54]

I always have an initial idea of where I want to go with a character and I make changes down the line depending on how a campaign is going and how events unfold. Maybe the team lacks something so I would make selections to fill that role or supplement as a support for that weakness.

For SR Missions, I started off with a Martial Artist mundane zero-chrome Edge-O-Mancer and my goal was to get 8 Edge, max out my unarmed and increase his shooting skills to make him a decent Street Sam. After 200+ career Karma (350+ with working for the people) and saving all his pennies, I found I was hitting a plateau. As character flavor, after finishing the London Falling series, he was involved in a plane crash of a commercial flight and was one of the few survivors but his body was so jacked up that he couldn't be a martial artist anymore. So his family had called in some favors, had him transported to San Francisco and he had extensive surgery to repair what was damage; all without his knowledge and his family nor doctors informed him on what was install. Mechanically, he received Synaptic Boosters 2, Titanium Bone Lacing, Smart Link and Enhanced Articulation -- All Betaware. He may even get more when Chrome Flesh becomes legal and added to the SRM FAQ.

For my home campaign, I'm playing the only awakened character being a Psionic Magician College Professor. I knew right off the bat that I wanted to get 3 Initiations with Centering, Masking and Channeling, a Force 6+ Centering Focus, and eventually get my Magic up to 9. I have everything else but increasing my magic, which I am on the track for that. Afterward, picking up random spells, rituals, increasing counterspelling and picking up a Power Foci would be the next goals.

[Hobbes]

Yes.

Priority 1 (all characters) unopposed skills where 1 or 2 ranks gets you a useful dice pool.  Etiquite, driving, thrown weapon, any potentially useful skill based on whatever the main attribute is. 

Priority 2 (all characters) Edge to 3. 

Priority 3 (mages) round out spell list.

Priority 4 bump any "1" Attribute to 2.

Priority 5 skill specializations.

Priority 6  (mages/technomancers/Adepts) Initiation & Foci bonding.  (others) Edge to 5ish.

After that it I wing it.   

Under priority generation you're not going to wind up with a character that needs each of those steps.  Essentially, it's "round out character" and "fill in gaps" for the first bit.  Then figure it out. 

[hoslot]

Shadow Run is more complicated to plan ahead then D and D.  This is because you advance both your $$ and karma.  Some types of characters can be put in situations where their advancement is more dependent on either cash or karma.  For instance an adept needs karma more then they need cash while a street samari may need cash more then karma.  I find it is best to simply create a wishlist for what your character would like to get, maybe 5 or 10 things, some costing karma and other costing cash.  Also building characters which can effectively use both cash and karma. 

The system encourages planing for the future in the way they structured character creation.  At character creation all attribute points and skill points cost the same, while after character creation they are on a sliding scale.  This strongly encourages min/maxing at the beginning then using karma to fill in the gaps. 

Life modules have a similar problem because they have a flat cost but the karma value varies dramatically.  For example picking a module which raises a 5 to a 6 is much more valuable then picking a module which raises a 2 to a 3.  Life modules could be cool if there were more options at different costs, but then there could be even more abuse.   

[JmOz01]

I was not sure about a couple of the rules regarding the Karma build (KS and Contacts) so ran it both ways...I cape up with 124-133% (990-1063).  Character is a Jack of All trades (Skills A, Attributes & Magic B, Resources and Race E).  I have another version of him that is A-B-C-D-E, he comes out the same (Skills A, Magic B, Race C, Attributes D, Resources E)

[Reaver]

Depends on if the overall adventure is just a bunch of one-shots strung together, or if it is an actual campaign.

If you are doing the "strung together one shot" style campaign, with it being nothing more then endless runs, then GMs (and players of those style of campaigns) generally don't like you doing anything that doesn't directly relate to Character Power In His Role.

If you are in a more "living, breathing campaign", then non-traditional advancement seems to happen often... and is even encouraged!


Personally, when playing a "living" campaign, where my character ends up at karma milestones usually ends up being dictated by the campaign, and not what I had originally planned

[Glyph]

I am good at start-of-game optimization, but less so at in-game improvements.  It depends on a lot of things.  Some characters plan on branching out after char-gen, while others might be more focused.  If you want your character to become more powerful over time, then at character creation, after becoming good at your main specialty, you would want to cover other areas at a decent level, so you will be improving yourself later on, rather than filling in missing skills or raising dump stats.

Point build typically comes in under Priority/Sum-to-Ten, but it has two advantages, optimization-wise.  One, you are buying exactly what you want, so every point goes towards your character creation goals - nothing superfluous.  Two, there is no differentiation between your overall Karma points and the normal 25(50) that you get with .  You can do things that you flat out cannot do in Priority/Sum-to-Ten.  For example, a pixie mysad build I roughed out, which had a mentor spirit, focused concentration: 5, 6 adept power points, and a bound Force: 4 combat spell focus.  In Priority/Sum-to-Ten, that would have been 15 Karma to be a pixie, 25 Karma for the qualities, 30 Karma for the adept power points, and 8 Karma to bind the focus. 78 Karma - not happening.  So overall it is weaker, but fine-tuning and flexibility can offset that sometimes.