[Hephaestus]

In the CRB6, there are now 4 different kinds of Heal spell, 3 Different Armor spells, 4 different kinds of Animate spells, and 4 different Shape spells.

Instead of Heal, Cleansing Heal, Cooling Heal, and Warming Heal, the Heal spell could have a "Remove Status" amp up for 2 drain each to remove a status effect.

Similarly, the Armor, Elemental Armor, and Vehicle Armor (which works differently from normal armor how?) could have all been one spell with an "Elemental" amp up for 1 drain and a "Vehicle" amp up for 2 drain.

And now a spellcaster who wants to animate/shape objects needs to pick a different spell based on the material the object is made out of (metal, plastic, stone, or wood). Again, these could each have been one spell with different DV values for different materials.

How is this in any way streamlined?

[KatoHearts]

Remember there was supposed to be a custom spell system? Well it's not in, you get this until it does get in.

[Shinobi Killfist]

They were pretty clear the custom spell system was coming later.  But the framework is already there for these spells so if you can figure out the math you can do it on your own, the issues would be time it takes to design spells and cost.  But the math is in the spells you just have to break it out. Might be hard to come up with a system for players to make spells, but it looks like one where the GM add spells seems reasonable to figure out.

[FastJack]

Plus, it's going to take a book by itself to explain the custom system.

[Michael Chandra]

I already got 8 concluded basic elements of the custom system based on analysing the spells.

[Xenon]

How is this in any way streamlined?

As others mentioned, spell components are now modular. Based on which modules the spell consist of you will get precise and calculated drain values.

Ranged spell deal stun damage? Add the Deal Physical Damage module and the drain goes up by one. Add the AoE module and the drain go up once again. You can make an unlimited amount of spells and they all are balanced and streamlined since you are basically just adding predefined modules that have a predefined cost associated to it.

This is also how Scania build trucks. They have modules and base variants. The whole truck is made in one line and with very few actual part numbers, but the costumer can have an almost unlimited variety when it comes to specific parts such as sidemembers, gearboxes, engines, lengths, heights, and color schemas.

Streamlining is not so much cutting stuff away... rather think of it as maximizing the work not done.

[markelphoenix]

How is this in any way streamlined?

As others mentioned, spell components are now modular. Based on which modules the spell consist of you will get precise and calculated drain values.

Ranged spell deal stun damage? Add the Deal Physical Damage module and the drain goes up by one. Add the AoE module and the drain go up once again. You can make an unlimited amount of spells and they all are balanced and streamlined since you are basically just adding predefined modules that have a predefined cost associated to it.

This is also how Scania build trucks. They have modules and base variants. The whole truck is made in one line and with very few actual part numbers, but the costumer can have an almost unlimited variety when it comes to specific parts such as sidemembers, gearboxes, engines, lengths, heights, and color schemas.

Streamlining is not so much cutting stuff away... rather think of it as maximizing the work not done.

Yeah, to be honest, I am kind of excited about this. I like Amp being relatively simple boosts, I also like the idea of spells having ability to be specific. I could see someone making a spell with no heal effect, but removes all conditions.

I have actually already been doing a concept character in my head that has a few hefty touch spells that can wreck, but not incur the extra drain from being ranged or aoe. Thinking Acid, Fire, Electricity combo spell, that on touch sets on fire, applies effect of acid, and shocks. Imagine drain for that will still  be high, but probably not as high as a LOS or AOE version. Use case would be, "Oh drek, someone actually got within melee of me! Edge this touch spell and let the good times roll!"

[Hephaestus]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to the build-a-spell workshop. I have a lot of ideas...

What I'm confused about is why they wouldn't just consolidate the spells (especially with their self-imposed 300 page limit) and add a couple of specific Amps to give an actual taste of the customization? It would have saved roughly a page in the CRB6, which could have been used to add in all the missing tables, or give a better explanation of vehicles, or give a brief explanation of Amp customization.

And by making them separate spells, it eats up your spell limit to have them all. Does this mean that the spell customization to come will force you to make every tweaked spell a separate one in your list? How fast will players run out of slots with spells that offer similar main effects, but with minor tweaks?

[Shinobi Killfist]

Even if not done through amps page space wise it should fit one spell with maybe a line or two added to describe the variant options.

Like heal/cure. Heal description. Then say the cure variant costs x more drain and can cure a status effect chosen at the time you learn the spell.

[markelphoenix]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to the build-a-spell workshop. I have a lot of ideas...

What I'm confused about is why they wouldn't just consolidate the spells (especially with their self-imposed 300 page limit) and add a couple of specific Amps to give an actual taste of the customization? It would have saved roughly a page in the CRB6, which could have been used to add in all the missing tables, or give a better explanation of vehicles, or give a brief explanation of Amp customization.

And by making them separate spells, it eats up your spell limit to have them all. Does this mean that the spell customization to come will force you to make every tweaked spell a separate one in your list? How fast will players run out of slots with spells that offer similar main effects, but with minor tweaks?

Or they could make one of the Modules 'Adaptive Module', which would allow a spell to have differing affects? They have a really good opportunity to do something cool here, but being CGL.......trying to keep my expectations tamed.

[Hephaestus]

Or they could make one of the Modules 'Adaptive Module', which would allow a spell to have differing affects? They have a really good opportunity to do something cool here, but being CGL.......trying to keep my expectations tamed.

That was my thought as well. Armor is 4 DV, while Vehicle Armor is 6 DV. They could have made a "Vehicle Sized" amp for 2 DV that let you put Armor on a vehicle.

[Michael Chandra]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to the build-a-spell workshop. I have a lot of ideas...

What I'm confused about is why they wouldn't just consolidate the spells (especially with their self-imposed 300 page limit) and add a couple of specific Amps to give an actual taste of the customization? It would have saved roughly a page in the CRB6, which could have been used to add in all the missing tables, or give a better explanation of vehicles, or give a brief explanation of Amp customization.

And by making them separate spells, it eats up your spell limit to have them all. Does this mean that the spell customization to come will force you to make every tweaked spell a separate one in your list? How fast will players run out of slots with spells that offer similar main effects, but with minor tweaks?

Or they could make one of the Modules 'Adaptive Module', which would allow a spell to have differing affects? They have a really good opportunity to do something cool here, but being CGL.......trying to keep my expectations tamed.

I prefer it more-specific. Makes mages less OP and picking spells a tactical choice.

[Serbitar]

I hate systems where stunning people is easier (less drain)  than killing them. No Drama, no conflict, just nice people who stun each other.

[markelphoenix]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to the build-a-spell workshop. I have a lot of ideas...

What I'm confused about is why they wouldn't just consolidate the spells (especially with their self-imposed 300 page limit) and add a couple of specific Amps to give an actual taste of the customization? It would have saved roughly a page in the CRB6, which could have been used to add in all the missing tables, or give a better explanation of vehicles, or give a brief explanation of Amp customization.

And by making them separate spells, it eats up your spell limit to have them all. Does this mean that the spell customization to come will force you to make every tweaked spell a separate one in your list? How fast will players run out of slots with spells that offer similar main effects, but with minor tweaks?

Or they could make one of the Modules 'Adaptive Module', which would allow a spell to have differing affects? They have a really good opportunity to do something cool here, but being CGL.......trying to keep my expectations tamed.

I prefer it more-specific. Makes mages less OP and picking spells a tactical choice.

I can see that as well. See value in both, but I tend to lean toward the more specific from a thematic standpoint. By spells being specific, it becomes a form of specialization in a way. Sticking with the heal, you can just heal damage, or you can focus on removing persistent flame damage along with the heal. Maybe the mage wanted to be a fire fighter when they grew up :-p, maybe they're a mage who specializes in fire spells, and they want to make sure their AoE spells don't accidentally set a flame a team mate.

[markelphoenix]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to the build-a-spell workshop. I have a lot of ideas...

What I'm confused about is why they wouldn't just consolidate the spells (especially with their self-imposed 300 page limit) and add a couple of specific Amps to give an actual taste of the customization? It would have saved roughly a page in the CRB6, which could have been used to add in all the missing tables, or give a better explanation of vehicles, or give a brief explanation of Amp customization.

And by making them separate spells, it eats up your spell limit to have them all. Does this mean that the spell customization to come will force you to make every tweaked spell a separate one in your list? How fast will players run out of slots with spells that offer similar main effects, but with minor tweaks?

Or they could make one of the Modules 'Adaptive Module', which would allow a spell to have differing affects? They have a really good opportunity to do something cool here, but being CGL.......trying to keep my expectations tamed.

I prefer it more-specific. Makes mages less OP and picking spells a tactical choice.

I can see that as well. See value in both, but I tend to lean toward the more specific from a thematic standpoint. By spells being specific, it becomes a form of specialization in a way. Sticking with the heal, you can just heal damage, or you can focus on removing persistent flame damage along with the heal. Maybe the mage wanted to be a fire fighter when they grew up :-p, maybe they're a mage who specializes in fire spells, and they want to make sure their AoE spells don't accidentally set a flame a team mate.

I also wish spells weren't a Karma thing, but were treated like equipment from a, "This is stuff you spend Nuyen on, your Karma goes towards Skill, Stats, and Initiation." I think it would address a lot of the concern over specificity of spells when it is no longer a Karma sink.