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[SR6] Prone vs Hitting the Dirt

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Typhus

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« on: <08-09-19/1611:36> »
Alright, I got one for you to knock around. 

Drop Prone (I)
A character may choose to drop themselves to the ground as a Minor Action. They gain the Prone status until they choose to use the Stand Up
Action.


Makes sense.

Hit the Dirt (A)
A character can quickly drop to the ground in a defensive manner, gaining +2 dice on the Defense test of an incoming attack. They gain the Prone status and also suffer a –2 dice pool penalty on any subsequent tests using active skills until they use the Stand Up action, due to the awkwardness of their fall.

Forgetting the obvious logical fix here, just focusing on the RAW: to clear this apparently additional -2 "awkward fall" penalty (which I assume stacks with Prone?) that I acquire from reacting to an incoming attack, I would seem to need to then use a Minor to stand up, and then another Minor to drop back to Prone again properly, otherwise if I just stay prone, I have the prone effects and the "awkward fall" effect until that occurs.  Also, as written, the "an incoming attack" doesn't explicitly say how long this benefit applies.  Prone seems to indicate the +2 bonus would continue to apply later, but only from attacks at Medium or farther.  So, would it be true that if I hit the dirt from a Short range attack, I gain the +2 for against that one, but any others from that same range, regardless of when they happen, don't provide the bonus?  Meanwhile even if I use a minor to crawl along the ground, thus repositioning myself, I still have an extra -2 from landing awkwardly.  I could see needing to burn a Minor to clear it, but let that Minor be any amount of movement in any mode, including Standing Up.  Or do I retain the awkward fall penalty for as long as I want to retain the immunity from the range restriction?

For reference:
Prone
You drop to the ground to get a stable shot and make yourself tougher to shoot. The character’s movement rate is reduced to two meters, and they cannot Sprint. They get a +2 dice pool bonus on Defense Tests against ranged attacks from Medium range or farther, but –2 on attacks from Close or Near ranges due to their immobility. They also get a –4 penalty to melee attacks or bow attacks. They increase the Attack Rating of any firearm or projectile weapon (besides bows) by 2.

I know how I would rule it as a GM, but the RAW has an issue there.  Just thought I would point it out.

Xenon

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« Reply #1 on: <08-09-19/1837:19> »
Hit the Dirt is an action you can take out of order in response to an incoming attack (if you played SR5, think interrupt action). The temporary positive dice pool modifier to your defense test only applies to this specific incoming attack. To do this you must have left your action turn with at least one minor action to spare or else you can't take it. If you have some tactical advantage you can spend one edge to do a Tactical Roll.

Once your action turn comes up you will have a negative dice pool modifier on your actions (unless you used tactical roll) in addition of having the prone status effect. If you spend a minor action to stand up you get rid of both the negative dice pool modifier and the prone status effect.

I think it is reasonable to rule that if you wish to keep the prone status effect and just get rid of the negative dice pool modifier from laying on the floor in an awkward position then you can spend a minor action on drop prone (still prone but no longer in an awkward position) rather than first standing up and then drop prone or take your move action minor action (note that you are limited to 2 meters while having the prone status effect and that you can only take one move action per action turn).
« Last Edit: <08-09-19/1839:53> by Xenon »

Typhus

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« Reply #2 on: <10-04-19/1413:55> »
Been awhile since i posted this, but I have another question on Prone.

Does a defender take a penalty to Defense Tests against melee attacks while prone?  It does not seem like it (unless they Hit The Dirt, of course).


Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <10-04-19/1418:13> »
Been awhile since i posted this, but I have another question on Prone.

Does a defender take a penalty to Defense Tests against melee attacks while prone?  It does not seem like it (unless they Hit The Dirt, of course).

I don't recall if it says they do or not... but even if not, that's exactly the kind of thing that's tipping the scales against you in the case of who gets the circumstantial edge point in an melee attack on you...
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: <10-04-19/1505:52> »
In SR5 you got a positive dice pool modifier when defending against ranged attacks from more than 20 meters.
In SR6 you get a positive dice pool modifier when defending against ranged attacks from medium range or more.

SR6 p. 53 Prone
They get a +2 dice pool bonus on Defense Tests against ranged attacks from Medium range or farther...


In SR5 you got a negative dice pool modifier when defending against attacks (including ranged attacks within 5 meters).
In SR6 you get a negative dice pool modifier when defending against attacks (it say 'attacks', not 'ranged attacks', but since you are raising the question I guess it might be ambiguous) from Near or less.

SR6 p. 53 Prone
...but –2 on attacks from Close or Near ranges due to their immobility.


  • If you spend a Minor Action during your own turn you will just get the Prone status.
  • If you spend a Minor Anytime Action to Hit the Dirt then you will gain a positive dice pool modifier of 2 dice if used in response to an attack, but in this case you also suffer -2 dice on all actions until you take a Minor Stand Up action.
  • Note that when you take the Hit the Dirt anytime action you can also spend 1 Edge on the Edge Action "Tactical Roll" which let you ignore the negative dice pool modifier of 4 dice on melee attacks you take during the same combat turn and you also don't suffer the -2 modifier from attacks

Note it does not say 'ranged' here either, but in this case it is more clear that they actually mean any attack - not just explicitly 'ranged' attacks(!)

SR6 p. 48 Tactical Roll
For the next round, you do not take the –2 dice pool penalty from Close or Near attacks that come with the Prone status.
« Last Edit: <10-04-19/1513:42> by Xenon »

Xenon

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« Reply #5 on: <10-04-19/1536:13> »
I would rule that simply being prone mean you get a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice when defending against [any] attack within near or close range, but a positive dice pool modifier of 2 dice when defending against ranged attacks from medium, far or extreme. You also get a negative dice pool modifier of 4 dice on melee attacks or bow attacks. I would rule that a melee attack against a prone target grants a tactical advantage.

I would rule that hitting the dirt don't give you any modifier when defending against the incoming attack if it is from within near or close range and a positive dice pool modifier of 4 dice if the incoming attack is from medium, far or extreme range. You would still get a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice when defending against [any] attack within near or close range but a positive dice pool modifier of 2 dice when defending against ranged attacks from medium, far or extreme. Since you dropped so quickly you will also get a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice on all your actions which mean you would get a total negative dice pool modifier of 6 dice on melee attacks or bow attacks. I would rule that a melee attack against a prone target grants a tactical advantage.

I would rule that tactical roll don't give you any modifier when defending against the incoming attack if it is from within near or close range and a positive dice pool modifier of 4 dice if the incoming attack is from medium, far or extreme range and a positive dice pool modifier of 2 dice when defending against other ranged attacks from medium, far or extreme. You don't take the negative dice pool modifier on all actions that you normally get on hit the dirt. And Melee attack(s) in the same combat turn don't take a negative dice pool modifier at all. And I would also rule no tactical advantage for making a melee attack against a tactical roll.

ZeroSum

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« Reply #6 on: <10-04-19/1602:43> »
From the last paragraph:
Quote
You don't take the negative dice pool modifier on all actions that you normally get on hit the dirt.

This is from the Errata, right? As it adds that you do not take penalties from Hit The Dirt in addition to being Prone in the first place.

And agreed 100x on everything else, by the way.