[Glyph]

Detox isn't really a cure poison spell; it's more of a cure hangover spell.  While it may not take care of the physical damage, that still leaves a lot of bad aftereffects that can be made to go away.  It is still more useful than the antidote spell, which gives the target some bonus dice for the resistance test and that's it - although this is only if you cast the spell in the narrow time frame after the victim has been poisoned, but before the victim has to make a resistance test.

[Hobbes]

For Marcus's K12 question: IMO if the Detox spell goes off the K12 stops and nothing else happens.  The Narcojet example, whatever damage has been done needs to be healed normally but no new damage should happen.

Glyph, same question.  Raging K12 victim.  Damage no matter what?  And damage from Toxin... also dead if the victim doesn't shake it off?  Die, trauma patch, only to die again if the toxin is still going?  I really question the value of the spell since the threshold is the DV of the toxin.  Why would the DV of the Toxin matter if it only cures Nausea and such?  And then timing for drug crash damage, does it happen when the spell is cast or does the crash damage happen at the scheduled time?  That seems a fairly critical bit to leave out if that is the intended use for Detox especially for Marcus's K12 Victim?  Dead now or dead later?  Additional does cause overdose or Drug interaction tests while waiting for the crash?

Antidote and Cure Disease are a poor comparison because they don't have a 6+ Threshold.
Edit: sorry, Min Force of 6+

[Marcus]

I think Hobbes interpretation, is fair, and hopefully RAI. At the very least I don't think it's too strong.  Having a spell that's only a perfect hang over cure seems insane given the amount of resources a spell represents.

I would like to hear your response to Hobbes' question Glyph?

[Glyph]

It may not  seem like a terribly effective spell, but for some drugs like jazz or novacoke, or toxins like nausea gas, it can be useful.  The quote from earlier, "Detox does not heal or prevent damage done by toxins," doesn't  really have a lot of wiggle room.  I guess the reason the spell being weak doesn't bug me, is because I lump it in with spells like entertainment, makeover, fashion, etc.

[kanashiili]

So I've been trying to make the juicer concept work. I'm a little surprised that some of the issues I've run into haven't come up in this thread already.

• The Overdosing rule (pg. 415 Core book). If not for this rule you could easily be pretty much constantly high on some cheaper and less punishing drugs (e.g. Snuff) for a pretty nice benefit along with Narco. I don't really see a way to work around this rule, so you're pretty much stuck with one drug per stat.
• The drug interaction roll (pg. 192-193 Chrome Flesh). Pretty much as soon as you've taken drug #3 you're at risk of immediately blowing yourself up. You can get around drug interaction rolls by taking Zero (hooray, another 150 nuyen per encounter). If you're taking Zero and have Narco you may as well take some mild or moderate addictions as disadvantages at chargen, it's RP appropriate too.
• The custom drug creation rules are vague, and the example of page 192 of Chrome Flesh makes my brain explode... How did they get Addiction Rating 10 and Threshold 8? Can anyone explain that to me? Also are custom drugs physiologically or psychologically addicting, or both?
• Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.

[Glyph]

I can only assume that the Blocks raised the addiction and threshold ratings - unfortunately, their effect in the table is an asterisk with no explanation given.  Also, it is unclear if the modifiers for pharmaceutical drugs should be applied, or whether they are already factored in (the cost in the example is not doubled, even though pharmaceutical is the minimum grade for customized drugs).  So apparently 5 levels of Blocks 1-8 and 2 levels of Block 9 raise addiction by 2 and threshold by 4.

[Jack_Spade]

The German version clarified that to be the actual effect.
Custom drugs are too expensive and to dangerous to actually be of any use.

[Hobbes]

So I've been trying to make the juicer concept work. I'm a little surprised that some of the issues I've run into haven't come up in this thread already.

• The Overdosing rule (pg. 415 Core book). If not for this rule you could easily be pretty much constantly high on some cheaper and less punishing drugs (e.g. Snuff) for a pretty nice benefit along with Narco. I don't really see a way to work around this rule, so you're pretty much stuck with one drug per stat.
• The drug interaction roll (pg. 192-193 Chrome Flesh). Pretty much as soon as you've taken drug #3 you're at risk of immediately blowing yourself up. You can get around drug interaction rolls by taking Zero (hooray, another 150 nuyen per encounter). If you're taking Zero and have Narco you may as well take some mild or moderate addictions as disadvantages at chargen, it's RP appropriate too.
• The custom drug creation rules are vague, and the example of page 192 of Chrome Flesh makes my brain explode... How did they get Addiction Rating 10 and Threshold 8? Can anyone explain that to me? Also are custom drugs physiologically or psychologically addicting, or both?
• Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.

Overdose, correct, Drug interaction correct.  The tl;dr is pick two drugs that don't overlap, take a minor Addiction, add Narco Geneware.  Psyche and Cram is my go to cocktail, but Psyche and Novacoke work well if you have initiative boosting 'ware/Magic already.  Betameth and Kamikaze also play nice together if you're hard core.

Drug creation rules, talk to your GM or use the German rules until they get fixed by the Errata team.

Body lowering duration is what it is.  Handwaive however you need to.  The doses are standardized.  More sixth world Racism.  Your street doc/Drug dealer isn't going to give a Troll a double dose for free just because "Troll".  Whatever works for your story. 

[Overbyte]

• Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.

Body lowering duration is what it is.  Handwaive however you need to.  The doses are standardized.  More sixth world Racism.  Your street doc/Drug dealer isn't going to give a Troll a double dose for free just because "Troll".  Whatever works for your story.

Thinking about this for my new addiction rules, and I think you either go one of two ways. Use lifestyle costs (and pay +100% for a troll sized dose) or don't and get a regular sized one. The issue then becomes how to adjust for the larger doses.

[Reaver]

• Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.

Body lowering duration is what it is.  Handwaive however you need to.  The doses are standardized.  More sixth world Racism.  Your street doc/Drug dealer isn't going to give a Troll a double dose for free just because "Troll".  Whatever works for your story.

Thinking about this for my new addiction rules, and I think you either go one of two ways. Use lifestyle costs (and pay +100% for a troll sized dose) or don't and get a regular sized one. The issue then becomes how to adjust for the larger doses.

You pay the lifestyle cost, and quit bitching

But seriously, K.I.S.S:  Keep It Simple Stupid.   

you don't want to over think this shit too much, after all, what it the general rule of thumb? for a doubling in height, the mass increases by a factor of 8?

So that Troll isn't just  twice as big as a human, its 8 times as dense! (and Stupid too! Probably.) so does that mean he has to pay 8 times the cost because of how much "more" there is of him to love?

What about dwarfs? Remember those red headed step children of the meta-variants? Do they only pay half as much because they are half as tall? (although, they are twice as dense as a human... go figure!)


No... K.I.S.S. is the way.
Pay the lifestyle adjustment and call it a day.  You don't play with the Lifestyle adjustment I hear you say? Well then, the Trog gets to ride for free...

I mean seriously, There was a great interview about 2 decades ago after Andre the Giant passed away, about when he has to go under for a hip replacement, the Doctor was trying to figure out how much medication it would take to put him under... and Andre responded with. "Well, if I drink a liter of vodka in an hour, I get a buzz."

During the filming of A Princess Bride, Andre drank a CASE of Champagne (24 bottles!) before starting filming one day, and was "Pleasantly drunk" for half the day....

Andre, was not the same size as a Troll in Shadowrun, He was much smaller. [/list]