[8-bit]

Has anyone ever gotten enough Karma for one of these? I mean, with no special skills, powers, or spells, a Force 6 Ally spirit costs 64 karma to create. I can easily see a Force 6 Ally Spirit getting around 80 for what most people would want. They seem like cool ideas, but just impossible to get. I've never seen a character last past 100 karma, although I've heard some people have gotten to like 250 karma on a character. Either way, 64 karma is really expensive since you can't spend it on anything else. Any stories are welcome!

If I were to have my perfect ally spirit that isn't super high force, here's what it would be. I'll assume a hermetic tradition for now.

Force 6 - 48 Karma
Wisp form, Human form, Inferno Form - 4 Karma
Powers - 5 Standard, 6 Free powers, 3 Bought powers | 15 Karma
Materialization, Astral Form, Banishing Resistance, Realistic Form, Sapience, Sense Link, Aura Masking, Divining, Magical Guard, Accident, Elemental Attack (Fire), Guard, Movement, Regeneration, and Engulf (Fire)
Skills - 4 Standard, 2 Bought | 10 Karma
Assensing, Astral Combat, Perception, Unarmed Combat, Exotic Ranged Weapon (Elemental Attack), and Counterspelling
No Spells
Total Karma Cost - 77 Karma

Anybody else want to share their thoughts?

[Namikaze]

Personally, I'd start with a Force 1 ally spirit and build it up.  It helps to develop the relationship between the characters (and that's ultimately what an ally spirit is), and it makes the spirit substantially more affordable at the beginning.

[8-bit]

Makes it more affordable at the beginning, but it costs a lot to upgrade. Instead of 8 Karma per point of Force, it's 16 Karma. I do like that idea though, sort of a permanent watcher spirit type thing that can perform minor services. I can see it being pretty useful with it's utility.

[north]

As already stated, starting at force 1 would be fine if they didnt double the karma cost and still have to soak the new drain each time you want to upgrade the spirit.  Personally I don't see ally spirits as a power play, and I don't see to many people picking up one for that purpose.  In fact I don't see many ally sperits unless you use the cash for karma rules and come into a big pay day.  Like finding a bag of cyber decks kind of big.  There is just so much more you can get done with that much karma.

[Namikaze]

True that, north.  Ally spirits are definitely more about flavor and roleplaying.  Part of why I figure if you start them out weak, they can grow with you, etc.  I don't think they're ever going to be powerful enough for someone to utilize at a really high level.  Besides, if someone did get a really uber ally spirit, why bother conjuring other spirits at that point?  Sure, they could be fodder, but I think the conjurer that summons an ally spirit isn't the kind of conjurer to use spirits in that sense.

[MijRai]

Ally spirits are definitely more useful for an aspected conjurer as compared to a full magician; without one, you'd have to bargain with a spirit or summon the right one to get an Astral Gateway to go planes-hopping, while your ally could just do it for you.

[Marcus]

Ally spirits always seem like an epic trap to me.
As magic type You already need ever bit of karma you can get to initiate to raise your magic attribute, new spells, improve yours skills, to bond foci, to create wards and or Quicken and edge and so on.  Creating something that has relatively high karma cost that cost karma to improve, and most likely be super weak, and be a serious chink in your magic defenses always just seems completely crazy to me.

[Baquette]

Epic trap? Not really

Yes, it is a high Karma investment (you will be at arond 100 Karma without any problems), but you will get a loyal servant (depending on the backstabbing in your campaign this may be very imporetant), a free +x boost to all your spellcasting and a perfect way to sustain without any limit  these x spells (like increase attribute) which cannot be sustained in a focus anymore (due to addiction, cost etc). Or you get a second spellcaster with realistic form (mouse) which cannot be really discovered by conventional means, due to other spirit powers like concealment. or innnate spells/powers. Not so speak of giving the ally skills you only have at rating 1, while the spritit will learn them at his rating. And of course the "perfect" spirit power toolbox. Oh, and he has its own edge attribute. A big + compared to normal bound and unbound spirits.

And then there is of course the evil spell drain trick with multiple allys (better suited for black magic and general asshole sorcerers) ;-)

Of course you will miss a dozen spells and/or 2-3 magic attribute raises and/or 2-3 initiation grades and metamagicsk, which all give various degrees of power. But just as an example. A force 6 ally spirit gives +6 on all spellcasting tests. If you want to achieve that with a power focus, you would have to pay 36 Karma for it ... which is around half / one third of the Karma neccessary for the all, which gives a lot of other boni as well and which can be combined later with a power focus for a much larger dicepool bonus (or other type of foci). And depending on the rule lawyers you can even combine spell defense from the mage with the ally (if the ally has the counterspell skill).

I would not consider it a trap, but a viable option in a longer / high Karma campaign and/or Karma character creation (if the GM allows it of course and if the Karma creation rules in Run Faster will be similar to the ones in SR4.

What really sucks is that you cannot really start with a small ally spirit and raise it during the campaign, due to the doubled costs. I never understand that decision. IMHO it is way more stylish do nurse your own doomsday machine from the ground up than to wait for x Karma and *poff* Armageddon has arrived after month of doing nothing (from a player perspective).

Step 1: Choose Force: The base cost of an ally spirit is 8 Karma times desired Force.

Force 6 = 48 Karma, not 64. Or did I miss something? Of course there will be additinal costs for skills, spells and spirit powers.

SYL

[8-bit]

Someone hit me. I can't believe I failed that hard at math. You're right, it's only 48 karma.

[Baquette]

*slap*

But in the end it does not change anything in the end nu,bers. Force 6 ally spirits are the baseline (considering the more dangerous weapons in SR5) and you will go fast over the 100 Karma line. Mine is currently at around 200 Karma or somehting, considering all costs.

And your ally spirit may only have one of the "body powers": either materialization, possession or inhibitation, not both.

why bother conjuring other spirits at that point? 

Cannonfodder, as you have guessed. Or to be more precise: to roll over the enemy with a *lot* of spirits (if the GM allows it). ;-) Other than that: you mostly use only your ally spirit, if you have choosen your allys spirit powers wisely.

SYL

[8-bit]

*slap*

But in the end it does not change anything in the end nu,bers. Force 6 ally spirits are the baseline (considering the more dangerous weapons in SR5) and you will go fast over the 100 Karma line. Mine is currently at around 200 Karma or somehting, considering all costs.

And your ally spirit may only have one of the "body powers": either materialization, possession or inhibitation, not both.

SYL

Thanks for the slap. I needed it.

As for only one form power, they can have multiple.

Step 2: Choose Form(s): The ally spirit may have only one of the following powers: Inhabitation (p. 195), Materialization (p. 398, SR5), or Possession (p. 197). Materialization allies have a base form that usually applies to the  conjurer’s traditions. Allies can have additional forms at the cost of 2 Karma each; an ally can switch between forms using a Complex Action. Inhabitation allies must have a prepared vessel for them, but they can only have multiple forms if a true form results from the merge. Possession allies have no material form of their own, but vessels can be prepared for them.

Bolded emphasis is mine.

I don't know, Ally spirits seem ridiculously pricey, but when I read that you can basically custom design a super spirit with infinite services, then I was pretty intrigued. Not sure if I'll ever get one, but I like the concept of it.

[Baquette]

Yes, forms as in (mouse form / creater form / beautiful concubine form / fire storm form etc).

The ally spirit may have only one of the following powers: Inhabitation (p. 195), Materialization (p. 398, SR5), or Possession (p. 197).

###

Of course I can speal only from the point of view of a mage started arouind 10 years go in 2003 or 2004, which is now around 800 Karma. I started building up the Karma when I reached 400 (or something around that) and summoned my ally with around 500 Karma with force 7. Mind you, that was in SR4, but the rules are the same. They are pricey and you will have to experiment what your gamemaster and your other co-playes will accept, considering that youi need double time to solve actions for the ally and for your mage.

Consider the following for a force 6 ally with arount 100 Karma
1) unlimited services
2) forms like "cat" and "summoner" ("why yes, officer I was not at the crim scene, I was 50 miles to the south in a restaurant when this terrible crime happened, you can check with the waitress there, I belive Weny was her name2)
3) +6 to all spellcasting tests (compared to a36 Karma for a force 6 power focus)
4) +6 spell defense
5) 12 hard armor (definately not a front line fighter)
6) 2-8 Edge (from the summoner, which is currently the only spirit type availble for player characters with their own edge attribute, effectively doubling the edge for magic operations)
7) unlimited use of the spirit powers accident, concealment, elemental attack (lightning), energy aura (for close combat), Guard, Influence (instand mind control), movement with a speed increase of x6, search and weather control (come on, you are a shadowrunner, you are usually there where you should not be, unlimited movement, concealment and point point fog/raid/heat for infiltration purposes? That´s ninja-heaven right here).
The spirit is getting far better used to the modern world (personal interpretation) because he is far more bound to it depending on the tradition. That old man / young girl over there driving a bike or playing chess game? It might by an ally spirit..
9) A loyal servant incapable of treachery (if you are in good standing with your ally spirit).
10) Theoretically unlimited spell sustaining while not usable in combat (+4 willpower, +4 drain attribute, +4 reaction, +4 intuition, +8 increase reflexes) - just imagine the nuyen and Karma costs for spell sustaining foci. And yes, this is borderline rule abuse (or way beyond it - check with your game master).
11) The ally can get skill you have only at 1. Heavy Weapons? Alchemy? Driving a car? Speaking that obscure language?
12) Double spells, either normal spells, innate spells or spirit powers. Like Levitate for the group. Invisibility, stun bolt, lightning ball.

13) role play, flair, style. I am a big Fate/zero fan, so some may imagine what my ally is. This is hard to quantify, if you have a creative gamemaster it can be a cool experience, if your gamemaster hates magic or spirits or cannot cope with the added complexity you are not doing yourself a favor.

For 100 Karma you get 20 spells, 3-4 initiation grades (with metamagics), 2-3 attribute increases like magic, and 2-3 skill from zero to 6 or 1-2 to 10, or any combination of it.  Very powerful of course, and yes the costs are this high. As I said it depends on the campaign, the Karma rewards and your gamemaster on how he interprets the usage of some rules.

Definately not a trap, but an option to consider depoending on your campaign.

Personal recommendation: if you are in a long compaign going over the 400 Karma points: check with your gamemaster and go for the ally spirit.

SYL

[8-bit]

Oh, that makes more sense. I thought that the form thing was one of those powers. Well then, thank you for correcting me!

[TerraFirst!]

Concerning the OPs use of Regeneration power; I don't believe this is entirely legal.  In SR 4, at least, all the powers had to come from the standard powers of spirits that your character can summon.  I know the wording became more vague in 5th, which leaves it more in the hands of a GM, but I would steer clear of expanding the list to include powers not normally available to spirits.  Otherwise, you're looking at Storm, Earthquake, Wealth, Astral Gateway, etc. and it's going to get over the top.

As for my "perfect" spirit, spend as much as you can up front to boost the force as high as possible.  Don't worry about adding too many skills or spells, as these won't increase in cost if you want to augment it later.  Then, focus on getting Sustained powers; you can keep up to force in these running at all times: Guard, Accident, Silence, Concealment, Movement, and Psychokinesis are all powers my ally has.  I also, have Engulf and Divining.  If you're going for a materialization spirit, especially, I'd recommend picking up Sneaking as the most important skill.  This, combined with concealment, will allow your ally to go most places unobserved, which is more than your average summoned spirit can say.

Personally, I prefer Inhabitation allies.  I understand this isn't to everyone's taste, but the possibilities opened are just too potent to pass up.  Inhabit a decker - get a decking spirit.  Inhabit a vampire - get access to Regeneration and Mist Form; add in an Endowment level Great Form spirit...  Inhabit a knowledgeable corporate shadow operative, open an entire organization up from the inside.  And the list goes on.

In my current game, my character has stepped back from running due to personal issues and sent a force 7 ally in her stead.  It inhabited a primer runner that unwisely chose to come after our crew when he was out-gunned. Now I play as the prime-runner with spirit powers to boot, while my character fills a support role as off-site face, librarian, asset manager, and summoner.  Total karma cost: 66.

[firebug]

The kind of character I want to have with an Ally Spirit is my Black Magician (and I use the 4th edition description of the tradition, where it's less cartoonishly evil than 5th) who would have an ally spirit with Possession.  They'd be kind of like a mentor spirit in that it'd be a constant presence in the back of your mind.  While possession is now the weakest of the three, a +3 to all my physical attributes would still be pretty nice, and the other abilities it offers are good enough.  Plus, using stuff like Energy Aura or Elemental Attack is still real useful.

If I was gonna do Inhabitation, while what TerraFirst! says it cool (though not something most could expect to do, and you gotta remember, it's all on how the inhabitation roll goes), I'd wanna pick some kind of small, harmless animal.  The idea of having a bullet-proof cat fully capable of murdering someone in a single swipe is great.  Not to mention they'd be quite good at stealth by virtue of being small and a cat.