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1st character, looking at drone rigger

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Dracoprimus

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« on: <01-15-13/2022:02> »
I getting ready to start my first SR game(but, not my first RPG). So far, the GM hasn't put any limitations aside from it being legal.
I'm looking at making a drone rigger. I'm starting with the Drone Rigger pregen from the 20th Anniversary rulebook, then tweaking it from there. So far I changed the race back to human, didn't see the point of spending BP for thermographic vision, just to have it replaced with cyber thermographic. Then used those points to remove the negative qualities so far.

I'm liking the idea of being a jump-in drone rigger, frequently jumping in and out of my drones. Given that, how many turns/ actions does it take to jump from one drone to another, ie. doberman to roto-drone. And how many of these drones can I command at one time? The pregen has 6 drones. I'd like to have at least one, if not more, or all, of the drones to have enough ai to autonomous enough for my character to treat it as a pet, preferably one that can fly, like the rotos.(I'm picturing a robo- version of Rex from Primeval).

Is the GMC bulldog a good choice for starting vehicle?
 I also saw in another thread the idea of Technomancer/rigger. How well does that work? And how would that play out?
Anything else I should keep in mind that the pregen ignores?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #1 on: <01-15-13/2025:12> »
Technomancer/riggers can potentially do a lot more for a team than a straight rigger (since basically anyone can dip into rigging and do OK at it; technomancers can also take on the hacking role very easily). The big difference is Technomancer riggers should pretty much never jump in, they should be Threading Command to 12 and Remote Controlling.
Playability > verisimilitude.

RHat

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« Reply #2 on: <01-15-13/2159:03> »
Dronomancers, in particular, can offer a lot.  They can get serious help repairing things using the Diagnostics power of their Machine Sprites - with the help of a Tutor Sprite, they can even get away without the relevant Technical Skill.  They can run multiple drones through Machine Sprites, which tend to be more effective than Pilots due to the fact that Sprites are not limited by node Attributes - a Rating 6 Machine Sprite gets Response 6, Pilot 6, Firewall 8, and Rating 6 Complex Forms even on a System 1, Response 1 drone - and it doesn't have to worry about processor limit.

Jumping In is a simple action, though oddly Jumping Out doesn't seem to be defined - assume the same as the action it is the reverse of, I suppose, so another simple action.  This WOULD mean that you can't, say, Jump Out of a drone, into another one, and have that drone act all on the same initiative pass.  But in Hot Sim VR, you start with 3 Matrix Initiative Passes, so you can use that to your benefit. Further, you can still use remote control, communicate with sprites/agents, and other such things while jumped in.

If you want a high number of autonomous drones as a Technomancer, I suggest going for high Charisma so you can register a high number of sprites - Elves tend to be the best choice for sprite-heavy Technomancers for this reason.  You might also want to look at the Architect or Daedalus as a Paragon - I'd suggest Daedalus as that would also offer the bonus to Hardware rolls so you can upgrade stuff more easily, but that does have the cost that there'd be penalties for anyone else to use the stuff you upgrade or build.
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Spirits and Sprites

Bushw4cker

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« Reply #3 on: <01-16-13/0008:12> »
This is his FIRST shadowrun game.

I would recommend staying away from technomancer/drone rigger.
Registering sprites (Having more than 1 sprite at a time)  is a LOT harder then compiling. They roll rating against your compiling + Resonance skill for Compiling. They roll TWICE their rating against your registering + Resonance for Registering. Your spending at least 80 build points just to get halfway decent abilities to Register and Compile sprites, and that would be just to be able to compile multiple sprites around rating 3 to 4.  To have a chance at getting enough net successes to bind a rating 6 Sprite you need a resonance of 6 (65BP), Compiling 4 (16BP), and Registering at least 6 (24BP). If your Resonance is less then sprite rating you take physical drain.
I would start out with Drone rigger you like. You don't need the top gear. Get a ram plate, and some armor on a vehicle you like. Get a few drones. Roto-Drone, Fly-Spy, Doberman. You don't need a ton.
Command Rating 6 Program (Optimization-3, Ergonomic) 1000 nuyen, totally worth it. You can run it on system 3, and it doesn't count towards program limit.
« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0014:03> by Bushw4cker »
"Stupid men are often capable of things the clever would not dare to contemplate." -Terry Pratchett

Bushw4cker

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« Reply #4 on: <01-16-13/0104:13> »
I'm a GM here's what I would tell one of my players who wants to play a drone rigger.

Recommended Attributes (200BP)
Body-3
Agility-3
Reaction-3
Strength-2
Charisma-2
Intuition-5
Logic-5
Willpower-5

Recommended Cyberware
Internal Commlink
SIm Module modified for Hot Sim/BTL
Control Rig
Move-by-Wire System Rating 1-2 (You'll need to take Restricted Gear Quality to get Rating 2)
 -with move by wire system you can get skillsofts so you don't need every single exotic pilot or mechanic skill, you can specialize more. I would recommend buying skillsofts only during play, and not at Character Creation)
 -You'll also be able to hold your own in combat outside your vehicles or drones with Move-by-Wire
Reaction Enhancers
 -Combined with Move-by-Wire you'll be awesome at driving anything that doesn't have control rig.

Recommended Commlink
Novatech Airware w/ Custom OS
Response Upgraded to 5
System-5
Firewall-5
Signal Upgraded to 5

Recommended Programs
*Command-6
Analyze-5
*Encrypt-6
Browse-5
*Scan-6
Edit-5
*(Optimization-3, Ergonomic)
BIofeedback Filter-5 (With Willpower 5, you get 10 dice to resist Dumpshock which is 5S for Cold SIm, 5P for Hot Sim)
ECCM-3

If your doing any hacking at all
Stealth-3 or 5
Exploit- 3 or 5
Spoof-3
Tracking-3
Defuse-3
Decrypt-3
Sniffer-3

Recommended Skills
Perception 3 to 5
Gunnery 4 to 6
Pilot Ground Craft 4 to 6
Pilot Air Craft 4 to 6
Automotive Mechanic 4
Electronics Skill Group 2 to 4
Electronic Warfare 2 to 4
 or Hacking and Electronic Warfare 2 to 4
 or Cracking Skill Group 2 to 4

Recommended Qualities
DO NOT take Gearhead (Not worth it IMHO)
Restricted Gear
Juryrigger (Can be fun if you have extra BP you don't know what to do with)
Biocompatability (Cyberware)






« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0232:58> by Bushw4cker »
"Stupid men are often capable of things the clever would not dare to contemplate." -Terry Pratchett

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #5 on: <01-16-13/0108:42> »
Recommended Commlink
Novatech Airware w/ Custom OS
Response Upgraded to 5
System-5
Firewall-6
Signal Upgraded to 5

The bold-ed parts indicate a rule-breaking combination.

Granted, it's less money once you get a Response 6 module, but it's functioning at rating 5 until then.  (And no one is trying to say that Firewall is limited by System, it isn't people realize that, but nothing calls it out as an exception to being limited by Response, so it isn't one)
« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0118:53> by All4BigGuns »
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Bushw4cker

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« Reply #6 on: <01-16-13/0213:47> »
From the book

Upgrading Devices
If you are looking for more power in your device, you can upgrade its
Matrix attributes. Upgrading a device is simply a matter of having the
proper hardware module (for Response and Signal) or software package
(for Firewall and System). Once you have the module or package, simply
install it into the device, a matter of a few minutes’ work. A device’s ratings
may only be upgraded by +2 with regards to their original ratings.
Further improvements have no additional effect on performance.

Novatech Airware Response-3 Signal-3 1,250¥

From the Official SR4 website FAQ (I don't think a lot of people know about this one.)

Does the maximum program rating limited by the System rating apply to Firewall?

No; System does not limit the ratings of Firewall since it is a Matrix Attribute. Agents, Common Use, Hacking, and all other types of programs running on the device are limited by the System rating.

I've seen NPC's that have Firewall's higher than System and Response attribute. But I've also seen NPC's in Legends that break all sorts of rules. So I don't know if Firewall is is limited by response. (I'm going to post a new topic.)
« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0224:01> by Bushw4cker »
"Stupid men are often capable of things the clever would not dare to contemplate." -Terry Pratchett

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #7 on: <01-16-13/0216:39> »
Find a rule book source that specifically states that Firewall is an exception to being limited by Response. 


Again, no one is saying it's limited by System. But Response is a different story. I'm getting highly agitated with people trying to put words in my mouth on this matter.
« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0218:14> by All4BigGuns »
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Bushw4cker

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« Reply #8 on: <01-16-13/0224:34> »
I just edited my response before you replied sorry 8(

If Big Guns is right then take get commlink with (5/5/5/5) Attributes.

I originally thought the same as you, till a few people told me I was wrong. The more I think about it the more I think your probably right. It does make more sense. You shouldn't be able to have a (1/6/1/1) Commlink. So I'm going to assume your right.
« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0230:51> by Bushw4cker »
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #9 on: <01-16-13/0229:33> »
I just edited my response before you replied sorry 8(

If Big Guns is right then take get commlink with (5/5/5/5) Attributes.

It's all right, but the same FAQ entry gets thrown up every time, and then people start yelling at me for trying to claim what I'm not claiming. What's worse is that the entry has no mention of Response, so it doesn't really have any bearing.
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Bushw4cker

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« Reply #10 on: <01-16-13/0231:34> »
I know. I just reread your response.
"Stupid men are often capable of things the clever would not dare to contemplate." -Terry Pratchett

Bushw4cker

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« Reply #11 on: <01-16-13/0232:15> »
But what do you think about everything else? The attributes skills,, gear, qualities and programs I recommend. And NOT to make technomancer for new player.
« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0233:55> by Bushw4cker »
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #12 on: <01-16-13/0238:45> »
Considering the cost of a vehicle as a "base of operations" and the cost of acquiring, modifying and getting autosofts for drones, I wouldn't waste the money on the Move-by-Wire (maybe Wired Reflexes 1), and I wouldn't bother with dipping into Hacking either, just focusing on the vehicle related skills. I do have a rigger I've built that dips into medical stuff though. Put a Valkyrie module in his vehicle so I could rig that and be really good at fixing people up.

Comm stats of 5/5/5/5 are generally what I go for on a primary 'link. That's part of why it irritates me about the hate War! draws. I love the Battle Buddy Basic comm.
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Bushw4cker

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« Reply #13 on: <01-16-13/0402:53> »
You don' t need to spend 100k+ on vehicles and drones at character creation. I would get one main vehicle with armor, ram plate, drone rack and maybe a few other mods. Maybe 3 to 4 drones with some decent autosofts, so they can run autonomously. A couple flying spy drones, a wheeled combat and a flying combat. Remember you don' t need to buy multiple copies of the same autosofts or programs.
I would personally recommend taking hacking skill.  What if your team is sent somewhere where you can' t bring all your toys. Hacking-3 or 4, you don' t  need cybercombat, but might want few ranks of electronic warfare.

I was bored so I made up what I would recommend for rigger character. 30BP left to spend on contacts, edge or qualities. 12935 nuyen left for gear (50BP resources)
« Last Edit: <01-16-13/0604:14> by Bushw4cker »
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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #14 on: <01-16-13/1051:21> »
But what do you think about everything else? The attributes skills,, gear, qualities and programs I recommend. And NOT to make technomancer for new player.
I wouldn't recommend spending 200 BP on Attributes. Some of that meat stuff...just not that useful. And don't bother to hot-sim hack for the most part. Sim to break in then if you have extra meat IPs, switch to AR to do everything else...congrats, you're immune to Black IC.

A rigger who isn't hacking better be doing something else. In 4th ed, you'll have a lot of leftover points if you go straight rigger.
Playability > verisimilitude.