[Charybdis]

Hehe, yeah...but no Great Dragon ever invented the wheel. Or calculus. Or peeps. Let alone Relativity (Special or General), Quantum Mechanics, and silly string.

Wheel? Who says it wasn't a dragon?
Peeps, maybe not. But Drakes? Yes. Immortal Elves? Yes

Hellz, even "After much research and hundreds of bags of burned Nuke-and-Pop" The Big D couldn't discover how open-flame popped popcorn packages could be made!

I always thought this was a reference that he couldn't work out how to Dragon-breath roast it?

Seeing as that's the equivalent of opening a can of tuna with a nuke, I can imagine that's a pretty tricky prospect....

...and it was that curiosity that led his logic/intuition to formulate some durn gud models for how those things work. So then either great dragons aren't curious (but the Big D is clear evidence that at least one is) or...their great logic/intuition is all a lie! A lie, I tell you! They're nothing but lizard-brained scaly-ego'd charlatans!

Who says they're not curious?
And Intuition off the scale seems pretty right for a creature that can predict the rise of an island some years in advance....

Personally, I'm a dragon Fanatic (yes, the capital F is deliberate), but I've had several deliberate characters who HATED dragons. Mental note: Under no circumstances is it advisable to call a great dragon 'an overgrown gecko'..... no matter what your initiate grade, you're now officially lunch. RIP brother...

And in closing (to this tongue-in-cheek, semi-IC, rant); um...never deal with a dragon?

Seconded. All in favour say 'Aye?'

[CanRay]

Isn't one of the Greats now working for a Mega in charge of R&D for computer technology?

[Crimsondude]

Celedyr, yes.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I was gonna post, but Abstruse beat me to the punch.  +1 for you, sir.

A little bit of a sidebar:  Ghostwalker/Icewing/Doll-maker is the ass-kicker of the Earthdawn/Shadowrun world.  And he didn't spend the down-cycle hibernating like the others, he was on a meta-planar jaunt for who-knows-what reason.  His accumulated wisdom and fighting skills meant that absolutely no other dragon, not even another GREAT dragon, wants to confront him directly.  (He tried to provoke Lofwyr into a fight right after he came back and found out his brother had died.  Needless to say, Lofwyr changed the rules of the contest into a game of cat's-paws so as not to be turned into garden mulch.)

[Abstruse]

I was gonna post, but Abstruse beat me to the punch.  +1 for you, sir.

A little bit of a sidebar:  Ghostwalker/Icewing/Doll-maker is the ass-kicker of the Earthdawn/Shadowrun world.  And he didn't spend the down-cycle hibernating like the others, he was on a meta-planar jaunt for who-knows-what reason.  His accumulated wisdom and fighting skills meant that absolutely no other dragon, not even another GREAT dragon, wants to confront him directly.  (He tried to provoke Lofwyr into a fight right after he came back and found out his brother had died.  Needless to say, Lofwyr changed the rules of the contest into a game of cat's-paws so as not to be turned into garden mulch.)

I was always curious how the Rite of Succession would've played out if Ghostwalker had been around for it.  The dragon pretty much just marched into the single biggest political hotbed in the entire developed world, said "All this is mine now and you work for me."  He then kicked the everloving crap out of Aztechnology and Aztlan, pretty much the big bad of the Shadowrun world up to that point and threw them out.  And everyone else looked at that and said "Cool, you're in charge."

Again, that's the UCAS, CAS, Sioux, PCC, and Ute who just rolled over and said "That's cool, you can take over.  We're good."

[FastJack]

I was gonna post, but Abstruse beat me to the punch.  +1 for you, sir.

A little bit of a sidebar:  Ghostwalker/Icewing/Doll-maker is the ass-kicker of the Earthdawn/Shadowrun world.  And he didn't spend the down-cycle hibernating like the others, he was on a meta-planar jaunt for who-knows-what reason.  His accumulated wisdom and fighting skills meant that absolutely no other dragon, not even another GREAT dragon, wants to confront him directly.  (He tried to provoke Lofwyr into a fight right after he came back and found out his brother had died.  Needless to say, Lofwyr changed the rules of the contest into a game of cat's-paws so as not to be turned into garden mulch.)

I was always curious how the Rite of Succession would've played out if Ghostwalker had been around for it.  The dragon pretty much just marched into the single biggest political hotbed in the entire developed world, said "All this is mine now and you work for me."  He then kicked the everloving crap out of Aztechnology and Aztlan, pretty much the big bad of the Shadowrun world up to that point and threw them out.  And everyone else looked at that and said "Cool, you're in charge."

Again, that's the UCAS, CAS, Sioux, PCC, and Ute who just rolled over and said "That's cool, you can take over.  We're good."

Ghostwalker was around for the Rite of Succession, hence why Lofwyr changed the rules to using pawns.

[Abstruse]

Ghostwalker was around for the Rite of Succession, hence why Lofwyr changed the rules to using pawns.

Wow, you're right.  Been too long since I looked over Survival of the Fittest.  Re-reading it now, Lofwyr didn't exactly change the rules so much as use parliamentary procedure to force them into a full Rite rather than just fighting it out then and there.  My guess is because Lofwyr, thanks to SK, thought he would have a lot more influence in the game.

[CanRay]

Ghostwalker was around for the Rite of Succession, hence why Lofwyr changed the rules to using pawns.

Wow, you're right.  Been too long since I looked over Survival of the Fittest.  Re-reading it now, Lofwyr didn't exactly change the rules so much as use parliamentary procedure to force them into a full Rite rather than just fighting it out then and there.  My guess is because Lofwyr, thanks to SK, thought he would have a lot more influence in the game.

Or, more likely, got his tail handed to him on a platinum platter, and opted for the option that would have made that a less likely event.  I think the Golden One is rather attached to his tail, and the rest of his scales.

Ghostwalker is the 200-lbs. gorilla of the Great Dragon world, from my read.  Only Dunkie, his Brother, had a shot at standing up to him is the feel I get.  Why he doesn't throw his weight around more is a good question.  Probably still getting a feel for the world at large.

[Abstruse]

Ghostwalker was around for the Rite of Succession, hence why Lofwyr changed the rules to using pawns.

Wow, you're right.  Been too long since I looked over Survival of the Fittest.  Re-reading it now, Lofwyr didn't exactly change the rules so much as use parliamentary procedure to force them into a full Rite rather than just fighting it out then and there.  My guess is because Lofwyr, thanks to SK, thought he would have a lot more influence in the game.

Or, more likely, got his tail handed to him on a platinum platter, and opted for the option that would have made that a less likely event.  I think the Golden One is rather attached to his tail, and the rest of his scales.

Ghostwalker is the 200-lbs. gorilla of the Great Dragon world, from my read.  Only Dunkie, his Brother, had a shot at standing up to him is the feel I get.  Why he doesn't throw his weight around more is a good question.  Probably still getting a feel for the world at large.

I don't buy it.  Maybe in terms of pure power, but Ghostwalker flat out doesn't have the more subtle avenues of power that other dragons have been able to build.  Ghostwalker is between 30 and 50 years behind the other Greats in building his power base.  Sure, he has Denver, but Lofwyr has SK and Hestaby has...well, we don't know for sure, but probably a little bit of everything else similar to Dunkelzahn.  Ghostwalker also seems quite a bit more physical than the other dragons...sort of the Harry Dresden of the dragon world.  "Not so subtle."  Or the less SFW version from Changes I am modifying slightly, "Screw subtle."

[Kot]

Hey, he was the only easily approachable dragon in Earthdawn. And it seems he still is - you just need a present for him to even see you. In ED it was a nice side-income. My character is still looking for a nice piece of magic art to use as a gift.

[Charybdis]

Hey, he was the only easily approachable dragon in Earthdawn. And it seems he still is - you just need a present for him to even see you. In ED it was a nice side-income. My character is still looking for a nice piece of magic art to use as a gift.

In the Earthdawn rules, (under his 4th Age name of Icewing) Ghostwalker was indeed incredibly approachable (up there with Vasdjenas, really), as long as you had a nice tribute for him.

In SR4, nothing seems to have changed in that regard.

As for his power base, in the material world may be a bit behind that of the big players (eg Lofwyr), but I understand Ghostwalker is much more Astrally active than other GD's (except perhaps Hestaby...sneaky wench that she is).

Seeing as Astral areas and Spirit favours can be a currency all their own, perhaps GW's power base is a little less visible, but no less powerful....

Note: Also, few GD's can openly claim that an entire city is theirs I'm just sayin' ...

[CanRay]

Sort of the Harry Dresden of the dragon world.  "Not so subtle."  Or the less SFW version from Changes I am modifying slightly, "Screw subtle."

This is how I see him as well.

The thing is, it was a purely physical confrontation that Loffy was starting to head towards.  That's what I'm referring to when I say Ghostwalker would hand him his tail.

Ghostwalker reads to me as a very angry person in general in Shadowrun (Not so sure in Earthdawn), although approachable, you better be nice, as I'm sure there's a ketchup factory in Denver.

[Kot]

Ghostwalker was the best mage among GD's in the Fourth World, and the best summoner. I don't think that changed, as Vasdenjas is dead (Dunkelzahn inherited his title of Loremaster), and Dunkelzahn also - those were the only two that could possibly be any competition in that matter.
He usually made the front entrance approach - like in ED with the whole war vs. dragons that Thera brewed after finding out that dragons also know the protections from the Scourge. They began targeting dragons, but lost their Behemoth (a huge flying castle-airship) in the process, and when they reached GW's lair, it was empty. Soon after, major players on Thera who were involved or profited from the dragon hunt started dying, and a dragon looking just like GW was seen sitting on the Sphinks, in the middle of the imperial city of Thera, just by the governor's palace every time someone 'mysteriously' died...
In short: he went to the enemy's capital and took revenge on his own. And soon after therans announced they will leave dragons alone if they don't spread information on the protection rituals - which they weren't really, at least not for free.
And who was the major power and political player in Earthdawn? Icewing/Ghostwalker. He even had his pet dwarven kingdom of Throal that was trying to unite all of the province against the therans...
Oh, and like Dunkelzahn, he really doesn't like blood magic, and such. It was the theran specialty - like their ships were fueled by draining lives of slaves, and such...

[Mindset]

The whole dust-up with GW read a bit like he he got off easy for handing the Azzies, The NAN countries, the CAS folks and the UCASers their collective rear ends in Denver. I mean, I get it that the authors needed somewhere for homeboy to set up shop and that Denver had been off the radar for a while, but come on. You don't go against five countries militarily and not get some serious political and tactical backlash for it. I thought there would be some sort of troop mobilization at least as a show of force. The whole Take Over thing read like it was an isolated incident between pocket mil-spec security forces. You'd think megas and entire countries would be so on a war footing as is with so many hostile neighbors that they'd return GW's wrath in kind. Hell, even biological agents would make sense. I mean, there's something to be said for the idea that "If I can't have it, nobody can"  being still alive and well. Whatevs. I wrote enough.

[CanRay]

Ask the people of Tehran what happens when you get into a pissing contest with a Great Dragon.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you can't.  They're DEAD.