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Shadowrun 6E magic max after essence loss?

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Darksithmstr

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« on: <08-07-20/2215:40> »
It isn't said outright in book, and not anywhere online, if you lose a point of essence, it says you lose a point of magic.  But can you use karma to raise your magic back to 6, or is it a permanent drop?  Or is it a just a penalty to your overall magic, or does it not matter, you raise magic back to 6 and move on?

Thanks for the responses
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <08-07-20/2222:22> »
You can raise it back up again after the drop.

In this edition, even if your magic hits 0 you can raise it back up again.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #2 on: <08-07-20/2318:32> »
You can raise it back up again after the drop.

In this edition, even if your magic hits 0 you can raise it back up again.

Actually, on page 167 of CRB
Quote
..your maximum Magic rank increases. Your
maximum Magic rank is 6 + Initiate Grade (reduced
by one for every full point of Essence lost)...

So, Essence lost does reduce your maximum magic rank, not just your current magic.

If you haven't initiated and you drop your essence to 0.x, you can't raise your magic. One could argue that you could still try to initiate, but I don't know how that would be possible with a current magic maximum of 0.

Now, if you had initiated at least once, you could raise it back up to 1.

I have a strong suspicion of change blindness involved with the essence and magic sections of book. Would be surprised if they don't eventually release Errata to be more precise and establish full burn out rules (0 and done, no more opportunities regardless of initiate grade). If not Errata, maybe in the Street Wyrd magic book, hopefully.
« Last Edit: <08-07-20/2322:47> by markelphoenix »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <08-08-20/0113:53> »
There's a whole lot in the magic rules that are left unsaid due to presumption of familiarity.

Astral plane, I'm looking at you...
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #4 on: <08-08-20/0425:51> »
I am confused, this is in previous editions but about SR6?_?

Anyway, for Sixth World:
Quote from: p38
(specifically, anytime your Essence
goes below any whole integer, you lose a corresponding
point of Magic or Resonance).
Quote from: p167
Your
maximum Magic rank is 6 + Initiate Grade (reduced
by one for every full point of Essence lost).
Also:
Quote from: p167
Your Initiate
Grade can never exceed your Magic rating. If
something happens to your Magic rating so that it
is lower than your Initiate Grade, then your Initiate
Grade automatically decreases to equal your
Magic, and you lose any associated bonuses.

Note that max Magic is reduced by FULL Essence points lost. Ergo at 0.01 Essence your max Magic would be (1+Initiation), and your max Initiation = Magic. So you could go M/I 1/0, 1/1, 2/1, 2/2, 3/2, etc.

Furthermore, right now, like with SR5, you don't permanently burn out even if your Magic hits 0.
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Xenon

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« Reply #5 on: <08-08-20/1357:28> »
If you lose a point of essence, it says you lose a point of magic.  But can you use karma to raise your magic back to 6, or is it a permanent drop?

As others already said,

Both your current magic rating and your max magic rating are reduced by one.

So unless you initiate your maximum magic is now 5 instead of 6.

Having said that, your max magic rating  (but not your current magic rating) automatically increase by one each time you initiate.

So once you initiate you can again spend karma to raise your current magic rating all the way to 6 (or even 7 of you initiate twice).

Note that your initiation grade can not be higher than your current magic rating but if you keep spending karma to both initiate and to raise your current magic rating there is no real upper limit for how high magic rating you can get.
« Last Edit: <08-09-20/0504:22> by Xenon »

markelphoenix

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« Reply #6 on: <08-09-20/1224:08> »
so Essencr 4.01 has max magic of 5 then?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #7 on: <08-09-20/1232:22> »
so Essencr 4.01 has max magic of 5 then?

At 6 essence, your max magic is 6.

At 5.9 essence, your max magic is 5.

At 5.0 essence,  your max magic is still 5.

At 4.9 essence, your max magic is 4.

At 4.0 essence, your max magic is still 4.


(all of the above does not factor in initiation grade.  in the case of an initiate, add grade to all those max magic values)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #8 on: <08-09-20/1415:23> »
so Essencr 4.01 has max magic of 5 then?
Yes.


At 5.9 essence, your max magic is 5.
It will still be 6.

In this edition (the 6th edition, even though the question is posted in previous edition category) current magic and maximum magic is reduced by 1 for every FULL point of essence loss.

This seem to be a deliberate change from previous edition.


(edit to reflect that this only affect max magic as per MC's posts - thanks for the catch Michael).
« Last Edit: <08-09-20/1503:43> by Xenon »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: <08-09-20/1438:22> »
You're both wrong, actually.

Your CURRENT Magic drops every time you go below X.0. "anytime your Essence goes below any whole integer,"
Your MAX Magic drops every time you hit Y.0. "reduced by one for every full point of Essence lost)."

Say I start at 6 Essence and 5 Magic. My max Magic is 6.

I lose 0.1 essence from an implant. 5.9. Magic drops to 4. Max remains 6.
I lose 0.8 essence from a second implant. 5.1. Magic still 4. Max still 6.
I lose 0.1 essence from a third implant. 5.0. Magic still 4. Max drops to 5.

The word "full" is new here and appears deliberately chosen.
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