[Michael Chandra]

Given how Perception is a Physical skill, which you do with your body, and its specializations are all senses or 'Searching', plus it says it involves the basic senses: I'd say it doesn't apply in the Astral. The only mention of using Perception in the magic chapter is noticing magic with Numinous Perception, which is a Physical beings thing. So I don't see anything to support the use of Perception in the Astral.

Obviously non-living things are harder to spot, unless they are in the middle of a field of grass.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Fine, it's an arcane point of exceptionally small relevance as to whether or not Perception is the right skill.  For the purposes of this thread, I agree you use Assensing to spot things.

My point has always been that if you want to spot the sneaking adept, your roll to spot generates no info on the assensing chart on pg 313. You need a separate Assensing test to do so, assuming you successfully spotted the sneaker in the first place.

[adzling]

i would agree with your last point Stainless re: Aura Reading vs. Astral Perception.

[PingGuy]

"Technically, astral perception
isn’t vision—you don’t need working eyes to see in the
astral plane—but vision is the easiest metaphor to use."

I'm going to steal this quote to reinforce a point, but I'm not actually replying to you.   Astral Perception isn't vision, you don't need eyes to use it.  If there is sound in the Astral plane then you probably don't need ears to perceive that either.  Perception is based on physical senses, so it can't be used on the Astral Plane because your physical eyes and ears don't come with you to that plane.  Astral Perception is the ability to "see" (metaphorically) the astral plane.  I just don't see how it could ever be Perception that gets used for this.

Pre-Post EDIT: SSDR beat me to the post button so this probably isn't needed now, but the point still stands.

[Reaver]

Even Perception is used for more then "spot the sneaky guy"....

You are confusing 2 things into a single test.

the "sneaking astral entity" is automatically resisted by an Asensing test, Just like a physically sneaking entity is automatically resisted with a perception test.

And Just like that Perception test, it doesn't give any more details other than "Hey, there is an entity right there!"


You are confusing the "Observe in Detail" action with the opposed test.

OBSERVE IN DETAIL
A character may make a detailed observation by taking
a Simple Action. This allows a Perception Test (see Using
Perception, p. 135).
Note that characters should always be able to observe
what is immediately obvious (gamemaster’s discretion,
keeping in mind any perception enhancements
the character may have) without having to spend a Simple
Action and make a Perception Test. For example, a
character might automatically be aware that someone
is running toward him with something in hand; however,
the gamemaster may decide that the character cannot
tell if it is a friend or foe or what is in their hand without
taking an Observe in Detail action.

[Michael Chandra]

If you want to learn more about an aura, it's a Simple Assensing test. You can also use Ass to detect someone hiding. I'd put that into two different rolls yes.

[Beta]

Astral limit applies to all uses of Asensing, yes? 

A meat-world 'spot the sneaky guy' roll would of course use the mental limit if done by a person with normal senses (i.e. not getting into sensors, etc).  But I presume the translation into astral would change the limit appropriately.

[adzling]

Yes Assensing would use your Astral Limit.

However: "Your Astral limit is equal to your Mental or Social limit, whichever is greater."

So not really that relevant except for Faces who may well have better Social Limit than Mental Limit.

[kainite311]

Not to throw a monkey wrench in (personally we have been making it an astral spot, with no info), but doesn't matrix perception always generate info on extra hits per its description in core? Books not on me right now.

But my more immediate question, how does one hide from astral perception, if they are mundane or otherwise cannot perceive the astral plane and know how or where to hide....?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

The elements of hiding are still the same. While a pool of shadow won't hide you from thermographic vision/sensors, you can still realize that even if you don't have thermographic vision yourself.

Likewise, you don't have to have astral perception yourself to understand its capabilities and limitations.  You know an abandoned hallway offers no astral cover and the well-used one has eddies and currents that can obscure your aura, even if you can't see them.  And of course you CAN see physical objects that will be opaque on astral. Hiding behind a big box fundamentally works, both physically and astrally.

[adzling]

i'd just use regular Sneaking against an astral perceiver.

I'd apply negative modifiers if the astral perceiver is wholly astral and the sneaker cannot astral perceive (it's hard to hide from things you are unaware of).

+I'd allow an "Astral" specialization for sneaking that would work against astral perceivers (whereas the more common "urban" specialization would NOT work against astral perceivers).