[PingGuy]

Clearer is always better, I can't disagree with that. 

I think you are getting hung up on the placement of the word roll though.  It says "You only need to roll the dice when..." which is a conditional statement.  If the statement is true, then you roll.  I don't see it as saying "roll, then roll."  But it could be worded better for clarity.

[adzling]

regardless of slightly confusing wording (seems rather clear to me however) the errata team also discussed this in the past and we have proposed errata that clarifies that assensing is what you use in lieu of perception when astrally perceiving or projecting.

[adzling]

Your claim of Perception being limited to the physical world/senses clashes with the existence of the Numinous specialization for Perception.

actually not as I see it.

Numinous specialization does not confer any ability to perceive astral entities while astrally perceiving or projecting.

rather it is using physical senses (cold/hot and such like) to determine if an astral entity is nearby your meatspace body.

it's using your physical senses to detect slight variations in the environment that could indicate an astral presence (as opposed to actually astrally perceiving them using astral sight).

[忍]

So an adept rolls her Sneaking + Agility to move unnoticed through a restaurant. A watcher spirit would roll Assensing + Intuition to find said adept?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

So an adept rolls her Sneaking + Agility to move unnoticed through a restaurant. A watcher spirit would roll Assensing + Intuition to find said adept?

I would say no*.  Others are saying yes.

*Edit: a point of clarification.  I'm saying the spirit might be allowed to roll Assensing, but if so under aegis of similar rules permitting other skills to be substituted for Perception.  And a Perception check where Assensing is substituted is not an Assensing test, so no info about the sneaking adept's aura is discerned by the spirit just for succeeding at spotting the sneaking adept.

[adzling]

correct.

So an adept rolls her Sneaking + Agility to move unnoticed through a restaurant. A watcher spirit would roll Assensing + Intuition to find said adept?

[Michael Chandra]

So an adept rolls her Sneaking + Agility to move unnoticed through a restaurant. A watcher spirit would roll Assensing + Intuition to find said adept?

For dual-natured this can be a tricky question, since spirits can roll Perception in the flesh (says errata-announcement-topic) and Assessing to detect you astrally. On the other hand, Spirits have the same rank for Perception as for Assessing, while generally the modifiers are less bad astrally. So yes, Assessing it is.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

So what does an astrally present character roll to detect an aura-less drone sneaking instead of the Adept?

[忍]

Should be the same thing if I'm following the logic. Sure it doesn't have an aura, but it is present on the Astral.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Right, but the description of the Assensing skill doesn't say it does anything other than reading auras.  Which drones don't have.  So to me it's questionable that you can use it in place of Perception to spot a drone.

Likewise, even the section on Astral Perception (312-313) confirms that Assensing is for reading auras (doesn't say detecting auras), and only the sentence I've disagreed with the others on can even arguably imply that Assensing can also be used to detect an Aura.

And again we're splitting hairs.  I have no trouble with Assensing being substituted in for Perception on a Perception test, but my point I'm sticking to is you don't make an Assensing test along with the Perception test unless you do so sequentially.  I.E. if you spot someone hidden, you get no information on the chart on pg 313 no matter how many net hits you get.  Per the rules on pg 312, using Assensing to generate info about the Aura is explicitly a Simple test, which logically cannot simultaneously be an Opposed test vs the subject's (whatever) skill.  Once you spot the target (by whatever mechanic), THEN you may Assense the target to gain info per the chart on pg 313.

[Jack_Spade]

"Assensing is a magic user’s ability to read and interpret
fluctuations in the astral world. This skill allows practi-
tioners to learn information by reading astral auras."

"Many Awakened characters can perceive the astral plane
from the physical world. This ability is called astral per-
ception. It is a primary sense used in the astral plane that
allows you to “see” auras and other things in the astral
world overlaid on the material plane."

"Technically, astral perception
isn’t vision—you don’t need working eyes to see in the
astral plane—but vision is the easiest metaphor to use."

You can see auras with assensing, but you can also detect other stuff with it.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

"Assensing is a magic user’s ability to read and interpret
fluctuations in the astral world. This skill allows practi-
tioners to learn information by reading astral auras."

"Many Awakened characters can perceive the astral plane
from the physical world. This ability is called astral per-
ception. It is a primary sense used in the astral plane that
allows you to “see” auras and other things in the astral
world overlaid on the material plane."

"Technically, astral perception
isn’t vision—you don’t need working eyes to see in the
astral plane—but vision is the easiest metaphor to use."

You can see auras with assensing, but you can also detect other stuff with it.

The disagreement isn't whether you can see non-aura things.  It's about whether you use Perception or Assensing for "Astral Perception".

[Jack_Spade]

Right, but the description of the Assensing skill doesn't say it does anything other than reading auras.  Which drones don't have.  So to me it's questionable that you can use it in place of Perception to spot a drone.

I'm referring to this erroneous statement

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I'm referring to this erroneous statement

Ok, point taken then on the first instance of text bolded.  The skill description says it allows you to read auras, and to see also pg 312.  The bit you bolded says Assensing also allows interpretation of fluctuations in the astral world.  Point granted, but but seems irrelevant as interpreting is really just another way of saying reading. 

The second bit you bolded is in reference to the Astral Perception ability rather than the Assensing skill.  Yes Astral Perception allows seeing more than auras, we agree.  We disagree on which skill governs Astral Perception.  And for the third time now, that disagreement is essentially meaningless as I'd agree it's RAI to permit Assensing in place of Perception, even if Perception was the "correct" skill.

Do you have an opinion counter to mine that two Assensing tests are required to both detect and read an aura?  That's what arguing with me would really require

[adzling]

i think we've already covered assensing vs. perception when viewing stuff on the astral plane.

it's all assensing all the time, regardless of whether you're looking at an astral entity or the drab, muted grey shadow of a non-living drone on the physical plane.

"Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see"

from the money quote above the GM could easily decide that it's harder to spot non-living things that have no aura, such as a drone. You would still use assensing to spot them but giving them a higher threshold to spot them would be reasonable imho.