[JustADude]

Personally, I'd like to see something similar to the old tac nail rounds people used to load in the ozarks. They were useless at more than across the room range and ruined barrels fast, but were amazing for close range defense.

So, basically AP Flechettes?

[Crash_00]

Pretty similar concept. The difference though is that until about the eight foot mark the Tac Nails would usually still fly straight and "hammer" through a target (especially the large headed ones). After that point they'd tumble over and wouldn't really penetrate anything. Hmmm...now I'm left wondering what the armor value of a human is.

[JustADude]

Pretty similar concept. The difference though is that until about the eight foot mark the Tac Nails would usually still fly straight and "hammer" through a target (especially the large headed ones). After that point they'd tumble over and wouldn't really penetrate anything. Hmmm...now I'm left wondering what the armor value of a human is.

For over-penetration? I'd say give 'em a rating equal to the condition monitor + overflow.

[Xzylvador]

Trying to find the best house rule to make Longarms a little more useful/interesting... which would be best?
'Taking Aim with a Sniper Rifle or a Sports Rifle grants a +2 dice pool bonus when firing SS or SA instead of +1. The maximum amount of Take Aim actions is still equal to half the characters weapon skill, rounded down.'
OR
'Called Shots made with a Sniper Rifle or a Sports Rifle while firing SS or SA only impose half the dice pool modifier they would otherwise.'

(Came up with that second one while typing the first... it seems to better get the idea across.)

Another thing I was strongly considering was allowing SnS rounds only for Longarms...
Maybe combining one of the above rules and allowing SnS in Shotguns only would be even better? Then all three have something special going for them, while still solving the cheese that is SnS?

[Blue_Lion]

EWWW!!!! D20 Shadowrun thats Thats Blaspheme

Hey! I was trying to convince a bunch of gamers that refused to learn a new system to play SR.

If they refuse to learn a new system are they realy worth it. Also whouldnt a free contact at xx rating not make shure they have a contact. I once in 3 ed i made a fixer charter I spent almost the whole new yen cap on contacts. So the GM gave me a list of jobs that needed people wanted done and i cherry picked the one for our group and passed the rest off to difrent contacts. It required allot of record keeping the made me do most of it but he had to have list of ideas for missions so was a bit of a pain on him.

[Blue_Lion]

Trying to find the best house rule to make Longarms a little more useful/interesting... which would be best?
'Taking Aim with a Sniper Rifle or a Sports Rifle grants a +2 dice pool bonus when firing SS or SA instead of +1. The maximum amount of Take Aim actions is still equal to half the characters weapon skill, rounded down.'
OR
'Called Shots made with a Sniper Rifle or a Sports Rifle while firing SS or SA only impose half the dice pool modifier they would otherwise.'

(Came up with that second one while typing the first... it seems to better get the idea across.)

Another thing I was strongly considering was allowing SnS rounds only for Longarms...
Maybe combining one of the above rules and allowing SnS in Shotguns only would be even better? Then all three have something special going for them, while still solving the cheese that is SnS?

S&S rounds are out today for shot guns. I took them for the underbarrel shot gun for when i needed to stun some one, seamed a little op that some one had them in a pistole with what they do. Why use gel rounds. But most the time in combat i just gunned them down with my ausalt rifle, S&S was just for when i wanted to take some one alive. To costly with a tight wad GM lets see rescue a guy from a gang hide out with 30 members in it for 6K split 5 ways, good thing the face was able to talk him up no way we could do that run for the original offer of 3K. That whould not pay the rent for the month of down time he always places between runs. Oh and fail one run and a loaylty 5 fixer cuts you off.
Long arms have there use never underestmate the advange of sniping. A gun adept elf sniper can realy put hurt on a party from out side of there range. Give him camelion coted rifle silencer and camelion suit and he is likely to get away with picking off a player or two. Lets see he got how many success with his 15 dice? to stage up the damage of his sniper rifle. But in close combat the only long arme used is shot guns what happend to the double aut buck, not quite the same as flechet rounds. (Personaly i think shot guns need better more ammou choces.)

[Lacynth40]

First off, yeah, shotties need more ammo choices. Secondly, to h*** with buckshot if you're talking about close ranges. Birdshot is where it's at up close. It transfers more of the kinetic energy from one round into a nice tight area. Basically, -1 AP, +1 Dam. Buckshot would be the opposite, +1 AP, -1 Dam. And shotguns firing slugs would just be nasty. Wouldn't deal with the normal flechette AP modifications for normal shotgun rounds, but still doing the same damage as a normal shotgun round. Soaked by ballistic armor. And that's just the start of what you can do with shotguns. Sawing them off makes the less accurate over distance, but makes them more concealable. Different gauges of shotguns exist, and I would hate to see what the damage would be on a 10 gauge. Most of the shotguns in the rules seem to be 12 or 14 gauge barrels. Also, let's not forget that in our world right now, there are military shotgun rounds that are basically tiny explosive missals. Look them up, they are called Frag-12 shotgun ammunition. Fin-stabilized, high explosive armor penetrating shotgun shells. Nasty buggers from what the military is saying. To h*** with rules for dragonsbreath. I want those in game!

[The Big Peat]

Trying to find the best house rule to make Longarms a little more useful/interesting... which would be best?
'Taking Aim with a Sniper Rifle or a Sports Rifle grants a +2 dice pool bonus when firing SS or SA instead of +1. The maximum amount of Take Aim actions is still equal to half the characters weapon skill, rounded down.'
OR
'Called Shots made with a Sniper Rifle or a Sports Rifle while firing SS or SA only impose half the dice pool modifier they would otherwise.'

(Came up with that second one while typing the first... it seems to better get the idea across.)

Another thing I was strongly considering was allowing SnS rounds only for Longarms...
Maybe combining one of the above rules and allowing SnS in Shotguns only would be even better? Then all three have something special going for them, while still solving the cheese that is SnS?

I'd strongly been considering your first option as a house rule, possibly as a 5 point quality - it would go a way towards making sniper rifles no longer the wussy middle brother of the Assault Cannon and Battle Rifle. I'm almost tempted to say both, although that's quite bloody powerful. But then really, a sniper taking all that time to aim, should be.

I tend to just mercilessly ban SnS, but allowing it to shotguns is a reasonable fudge. Although I wouldn't mind powering them up further to make them a true kingpin of close up firearms - which, by my understanding, is where they should be.

[Cailieg]

For Shadowrun, in order to negate even a nominal hit with a low damage attack, for example a light pistol (4P), the defender needs to have 12 dice of body + armor to have a reasonable chance to negate it.  (For shadowrunners this usually isn't an issue, for Joe Average, this is difficult.) If the attack was at all accurate, for each point of extra accuracy, there is an extra point of damage.  That isn't "potential damage," that is actual damage inflicted.  Therefore to be assured a reasonable chance to resist the attack, for every extra hit on the attack roll, the defender needs 3 extra dice to roll to resist.  (Note I'm leaving out the defender's defense roll at this time, and simply using net accuracy.)

That is why SR favors offense.

<snip>

Can you point me to the highlighted rule in the RAW? I have been using a +1DV per two hits ala old staging rules and feel silly if I missed an already present +1DV per hit.


Alexis
*smiles*

[Lacynth40]

Page 149 of the 20th Anniversary Issue of Core Rules. Steps 4 through Steps 6.

[Blue_Lion]

One houserule we always have in every game we call the Pat rule. You have to play your gender, had issues in the group with some one hitting on a players charter of the oppiset gender to the point of making several people uncomftable with it.

[shrike]

That is something that should be easily countered by talking to the players. If something is making a player uncomfortable, it should be addressed, discussed, and stopped. Roleplaying is about having fun.

[Blue_Lion]

That is something that should be easily countered by talking to the players. If something is making a player uncomfortable, it should be addressed, discussed, and stopped. Roleplaying is about having fun.

That was tried it kept up so a house rule was put in place to stop it. After that there was no problems with that, and every one stated having fun.

[ArkangelWinter]

They'd be uncomfortable in all my games then...I've seen one char who had forgotten its original gender.

And on shotguns and SnS, the damage rating system doesnt really allow for showcasing the range of realworld shotguns.

[Blue_Lion]

Well the rule is not because every one needed it why you think it was called the Pat rule. Wait they forgot there gender sounds like a cursed item from some where.

Another rule witch was sorta fun watching some one deal with- If your charter does does something stupid and goes to jail you have to roll play your time in jail wiht your cell mates Huggy the troll, Squeezy the orc, and Clinchy the dwarf. Roll your unarmed combat vs there skill at ummmm taking advantage of you. Oh look they win roll your will to see if you like it.