NEWS

[5eOoC] 2075/6: Stormy Waters [Persistent World; recruitment always open]

  • 5046 Replies
  • 737466 Views

Lusis

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 511
« Reply #570 on: <10-24-14/1439:27> »
Luz is on the move also, heading towards the other train and the admin car.
SpeechThought Matrix/E-mail/Texting

Ericen

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 105
« Reply #571 on: <10-24-14/1457:05> »
Sorry Aria fixed following ghost
Speech
Thought
Matrix/Comm
Astral
Subvocal

saithor

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 538
« Reply #572 on: <10-24-14/1750:05> »
So the spell didn't detect anything? Just want to make sure before I post IC again.
As noted, it detects life but then you'd expect it to... I don't think it gives you any detail on what that life is, it certainly doesn't detect clown  ;)

Ok, but it does give location and so on, metatype, the example for a detection spell on page 286 is for Detect life, under three hits it shows stuff like Metatype. Knowing the location of everything within 180 meters of her that's alive would still be very useful information. You don't have to give me information on all, as since it is active, anybody affected gets a Willpower+Logic+Counterspelling [Mental test] to resist it, anybody who gets three hits is not affected. Or you could just choose who gets affcted or not if you want to.
« Last Edit: <10-24-14/1802:09> by saithor »
Dialogue
Comn
Astral
Thoughts
What's your favorite scary movie?

adamu

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #573 on: <10-24-14/1753:32> »

If anyone else would like to collate the list of initiatives there's a bonus karma point to the first person to do it, adamu has more than enough so try and get in before him :D


It is never enough!

But that initiative thing sounded way to complexicated for my small brain...

Jayde Moon

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Ace Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2464
  • Shadowrun Missions Developer
« Reply #574 on: <10-24-14/1915:02> »
So the spell didn't detect anything? Just want to make sure before I post IC again.
As noted, it detects life but then you'd expect it to... I don't think it gives you any detail on what that life is, it certainly doesn't detect clown  ;)

Ok, but it does give location and so on, metatype, the example for a detection spell on page 286 is for Detect life, under three hits it shows stuff like Metatype. Knowing the location of everything within 180 meters of her that's alive would still be very useful information. You don't have to give me information on all, as since it is active, anybody affected gets a Willpower+Logic+Counterspelling [Mental test] to resist it, anybody who gets three hits is not affected. Or you could just choose who gets affcted or not if you want to.

The spell is not meant to give you accurate counts of crowds (like casting it in a crowded nightclub should not give you an exact count of the patrons, their metatype, their armament, which ones are mages, etc... the spell becomes super powerful!), but more for detecting something that you don't necessarily know is there (this room seems empty, I wonder if someone is hiding in the closet... Oh, shit, a Troll with a Krime Kannon!).  The spell description actually makes a point of saying, "In a crowded area, the spell is virtually useless, picking up a blurred mass of traces of life."  Further, asking the GM to consider the resistance rolls of each individual in a crowd of people is tortuous!

It does seem odd to me that they specify that at 2 successes you can know major details like 'metatype', it makes me wonder why you would EVER learn 'Detect [Life Form]'... looks like you can just get all of the same information, just that the metatype/race comes at 1 net hit instead of 2...

But I digress... you could definitely make an argument that the spell would detect all of the life and even delineate where one life form end and another begins in a crowd... but that information is probably useless unless you already knew exactly what is supposed to be in there.

"There are 20 guys in that car, 3 trolls, 5 orks, 2 dwarvs, 3 elves, and 7 humans.  11 of them are armed," doesn't mean anything unless you know what's supposed to be in that car.  Like, 11 are armed could mean two shadow runners and 9 possible bad guys.  Except maybe 4 of the legit residents of the car are armed, which  leaves the 3 bad guys we already know about.  But what if only 3 legit residents are armed?  Now we have a possible 4th bad guy who hasn't played his hand?  But not know what is supposed to be there, it's all guesswork.

Now, the spell has an area of effect, so where it IS useful is if anyone is camouflaged and sneaking up on the train from outside, where no life forms should be, but you are detecting them, then you know about where they are, what they are, and if they are armed.

PHEW!  That was a lot of words, but hopefully it made sense.  I want your spell to have a purpose that's helpful and meaningful (knowing that we don't have more ambushers on the way is a key element of information!) but let's have a realistic idea of how the spell works so we aren't trying to do stuff outside of the parameters of the spell.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Jayde Moon

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Ace Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2464
  • Shadowrun Missions Developer
« Reply #575 on: <10-24-14/1920:15> »
Sorry for double post, but wanted to further note:

The cool thing is that the spell is sustained!  So as you move about the cars, you should be able to keep the spell up until you need to do something else and decide to drop it.  So as you move around, you can sort of detect life where your other senses indicate none should be, so no surprises from that Troll with the Krime Kannon.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

saithor

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 538
« Reply #576 on: <10-24-14/1925:06> »
So the spell didn't detect anything? Just want to make sure before I post IC again.
As noted, it detects life but then you'd expect it to... I don't think it gives you any detail on what that life is, it certainly doesn't detect clown  ;)

Ok, but it does give location and so on, metatype, the example for a detection spell on page 286 is for Detect life, under three hits it shows stuff like Metatype. Knowing the location of everything within 180 meters of her that's alive would still be very useful information. You don't have to give me information on all, as since it is active, anybody affected gets a Willpower+Logic+Counterspelling [Mental test] to resist it, anybody who gets three hits is not affected. Or you could just choose who gets affcted or not if you want to.

The spell is not meant to give you accurate counts of crowds (like casting it in a crowded nightclub should not give you an exact count of the patrons, their metatype, their armament, which ones are mages, etc... the spell becomes super powerful!), but more for detecting something that you don't necessarily know is there (this room seems empty, I wonder if someone is hiding in the closet... Oh, shit, a Troll with a Krime Kannon!).  The spell description actually makes a point of saying, "In a crowded area, the spell is virtually useless, picking up a blurred mass of traces of life."  Further, asking the GM to consider the resistance rolls of each individual in a crowd of people is tortuous!

It does seem odd to me that they specify that at 2 successes you can know major details like 'metatype', it makes me wonder why you would EVER learn 'Detect [Life Form]'... looks like you can just get all of the same information, just that the metatype/race comes at 1 net hit instead of 2...

But I digress... you could definitely make an argument that the spell would detect all of the life and even delineate where one life form end and another begins in a crowd... but that information is probably useless unless you already knew exactly what is supposed to be in there.

"There are 20 guys in that car, 3 trolls, 5 orks, 2 dwarvs, 3 elves, and 7 humans.  11 of them are armed," doesn't mean anything unless you know what's supposed to be in that car.  Like, 11 are armed could mean two shadow runners and 9 possible bad guys.  Except maybe 4 of the legit residents of the car are armed, which  leaves the 3 bad guys we already know about.  But what if only 3 legit residents are armed?  Now we have a possible 4th bad guy who hasn't played his hand?  But not know what is supposed to be there, it's all guesswork.

Now, the spell has an area of effect, so where it IS useful is if anyone is camouflaged and sneaking up on the train from outside, where no life forms should be, but you are detecting them, then you know about where they are, what they are, and if they are armed.

PHEW!  That was a lot of words, but hopefully it made sense.  I want your spell to have a purpose that's helpful and meaningful (knowing that we don't have more ambushers on the way is a key element of information!) but let's have a realistic idea of how the spell works so we aren't trying to do stuff outside of the parameters of the spell.

Yeah, what you have put down makes sense. The way I always thought of the spell is that it detected life signatures, but several together would mingle together and make detection harder if not impossible. I cast the spell with the intention of seeing who is in the train and where. I cast it with the intention to make sure that nobody on the team might get jumped , and that anybody in places where the obviously shouldn't be (guys sneaking on top of the train cars, guys gathering outside the door leading to the cab that we control, clown hidden in a car with gun pointed at hostage, etc., etc.) As for all the rolls,Aria can decide that the test just can't detect the clowns, or just roll resistances for the clowns, or just for the ones where we don't know where they are. I'd think of the spell as seeing areas filled with living metahumans (Bunk Cars) as a mass of life in which it is impossible to figure out what is what, while a small group (Three clowns preparing to break into cab.) would be easily detectable if they don't resist/counterspell the spell.

Also, I do now about the sustaining of the spell, it is rather cool. even cooler is that since I have three ranks of Focused Concentration, I can sustain it for free.
Dialogue
Comn
Astral
Thoughts
What's your favorite scary movie?

8-bit

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #577 on: <10-24-14/2023:49> »
Why the hell not, I guess I can do the initiative thing.

Initiative Rolls for current situation. Not organized.

8-bit | Ghost - Initiative: 15+3d6 30 | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 20
JackVII | Harrier - Initiative: 9+4d6 → [9,6,5,3,6] = (29) | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 19
Lusis | Luz (Using prerolled result, since I cannot find a new roll) - 8+1d6: 13 [1d6=5] | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 3
Csjarrat | Morgan - 10 + 4d6 4d6=14 = 23 INI in hot sim. | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 13
Ericen | Flicker (Using prerolled result, since I cannot find a new roll) - Initiative: 11+4d6 25 | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 15
Jayde Moon | Betsy - 8 + 2d6 (Need a roll, there are no prerolls available and no active roll that I can see) | One action pass has gone by - subtract 10 from roll
adamu | Al - (Using prerolled result) 2d6 + 11 → [6,6,11] = (23) | Engaged in combat before everyone else, so is at a fresh roll (not currently engaged in combat, thus outside of Initiative)
saithor | Alicia - 12 + 2d6 (Need a roll, there are no prerolls available and no active roll that I can see) | One action pass has gone by - subtract 10 from roll

Initiative Rolls for current situation. Organized.

8-bit | Ghost - Initiative: 15+3d6 30 | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 20
JackVII | Harrier - Initiative: 9+4d6 → [9,6,5,3,6] = (29) | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 19
Ericen | Flicker (Using prerolled result, since I cannot find a new roll) - Initiative: 11+4d6 25 | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 15
Csjarrat | Morgan - 10 + 4d6 4d6=14 = 23 INI in hot sim. | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 13
Lusis | Luz (Using prerolled result, since I cannot find a new roll) - 8+1d6: 13 [1d6=5] | One action pass has gone by, so Initiative drops to 3

Initiative Rolls Needed for current situation.

saithor | Alicia - 12 + 2d6 (Need a roll, there are no prerolls available and no active roll that I can see) | One action pass has gone by - subtract 10 from roll
Jayde Moon | Betsy - 8 + 2d6 (Need a roll, there are no prerolls available and no active roll that I can see) | One action pass has gone by - subtract 10 from roll

Currently Outside of Combat. GM decision (because he's trying to fix the damn train before it crashes)

adamu | Al - (Using prerolled result) 2d6 + 11 → [6,6,11] = (23) | Engaged in combat before everyone else, so is at a fresh roll (not currently engaged in combat, thus outside of Initiative)

8-bit

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #578 on: <10-24-14/2038:06> »
Sorry for the double post, just got finished reading IC.

As I move through the cars, I want to check for clowns (kinda obvious, huh?). I don't know how many Action Passes you want me to use, but I'll take two Simple Actions each Action Pass to Observe in Detail (aka make perception checks). Each time will be a visual sweep (if GM allows it, I would like low-light + thermal sweep in one pass if possible, if not, just low-light) and an auditory sweep. I'll roll the first 2 perception checks, if any more are needed and I'm not here to roll, I believe I have pre-rolled stuff available.

Initiative - 20 for Action Pass 2

Visual Perception (Cybereyes + Specialization) w/ no Modifiers: 16d6t5 5 [1, 2, 2, 3, 1, 5, 5, 4, 2, 5, 1, 6, 1, 4, 2, 6]

Auditory Perception (Cyberears) w/ no Modifiers: 14d6t5 4 [1, 5, 1, 5, 3, 6, 4, 1, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 5]
« Last Edit: <10-24-14/2044:30> by 8-bit »

saithor

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 538
« Reply #579 on: <10-24-14/2106:36> »
Initiatives Actually 9+1d6

Orokos 9+1d6= 11 http://orokos.com/roll/229199
Dialogue
Comn
Astral
Thoughts
What's your favorite scary movie?

8-bit

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #580 on: <10-24-14/2132:10> »
Initiatives Actually 9+1d6

Orokos 9+1d6= 11 http://orokos.com/roll/229199

You are Astrally Projecting, are you not? Or just Astrally Perceiving?

saithor

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 538
« Reply #581 on: <10-24-14/2204:48> »
Initiatives Actually 9+1d6

Orokos 9+1d6= 11 http://orokos.com/roll/229199

You are Astrally Projecting, are you not? Or just Astrally Perceiving?

I was projecting, rentered body to cast spell and enter comm network.
Dialogue
Comn
Astral
Thoughts
What's your favorite scary movie?

8-bit

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #582 on: <10-24-14/2344:28> »
Please roll Initiative for Astral Projection then. You started in Astral Projection, then moved back to your normal Initiative. That means you start with the Projection Initiative, then modify it accordingly.

Quote from: Core Book of SR5; page 160
Changing Initiative
In some cases, a character’s Initiative Score or Base Initiative Dice may change in the middle of a Combat Turn. A player might gain Initiative by activating an augmentation, for example, or could receive a boost from a drug or spell or other enhancer. Conversely, a character who is wounded or whose vital equipment (weapon, augmentation, etc.) takes damage might lose Initiative. If a character’s Initiative attribute changes, immediately apply the difference as a positive or negative modifier to the character’s Initiative Score. This new Initiative Score applies to all remaining actions in that Combat Turn. So a character with Initiative 8 and an Initiative Score of 11 who activates an implant that changes his Initiative to 10 (+2) immediately raises his Initiative Score to 13 (11 + 2). If the number of Base Initiative Dice available to a character increases, that character immediately rolls the extra Initiative Dice and adds the sum to their current Initiative Score for that Combat Turn. So a magician with 1d6 Initiative dice who takes his first action to astrally project (2d6 Base Initiative Dice) gains the die (and the change in Initiative) for their Astral Initiative during that Combat Turn. (In this case, the magician would also replace their Reaction + Intuition for Physical Initiative with Intuition x 2 for Astral Initiative.) If the number of Initiative Dice available to a character decreases, then that character immediately rolls the number of lost dice and subtracts the total from their Initiative Score (along with any decrease to their Initiative Attribute).

So, to reiterate; roll 12 + 2d6 (as that determines your Astral Initiative and the actions your performed there; looks like speaking and assensing). Since a pass has gone by, you would then subtract 10 from that score. Since you went from Projecting to your meat body; you would lose 3 + 1d6 from your remaining Initiative. Shifting back to your meat body would be a Free Action (maybe not, technically it's a Simple Action, but Aria will most likely allow it just to keep continuity and make things less difficult), and you summoned a Spirit which is a Complex Action. Finally, take a -10 after the second pass to determine your final Initiative (100% certain to be 0 or less). Whether you are at negative Initiative or not, you can complete all the above actions before you are out of Initiative for this Combat Turn.

Sorry to make this so troublesome and difficult. I figure if I'm going to track the Initiative, I should do it correctly. This also means you are currently out of Action Passes for this current Combat Turn, which will likely be over soon enough anyways, and then everyone rerolls again. Welcome to the confusing world of Shadowrun. It takes a bit of time to get used to some of the rules.

adamu

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #583 on: <10-25-14/0401:16> »
That initiative thing could sure come in handy in a tight combat.
Personally, I am glad we have it.

Right at this moment, though, with no one in direct contact with the enemy, and everyone performing actions that go way beyond the scale of three-second combat turns (searching a huge train, negotiating with hostage takers, repairing/driving), are we even really on initiative?

Me, with the result already resolved, I was planning on posting getting the lead train back under control after a few more of other people's posts showed a few more seconds of game time passing.

adamu

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #584 on: <10-25-14/0412:18> »
OOC musings:

I tend to overthink things sometimes, so mostly just ignore me, but this is what is in my head.

These clowns are implementing a fairly well-thought out plan (they got themselves hired well in advance of their action, apparently with solid fake bonafides; they coordinated their actions to attack both ends of the train at once; etc.), BUT they are all high on drugs that make their behavior thoughtless and erratic.
In other words, they are tools following someone else's plan.

Also, their plan clearly included stopping the train. This suggests they may be acting as the pointy end for an outside element that will be joining them???