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Matrix wish list

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #30 on: <11-19-21/1456:44> »
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However, since there are also "Wound modifiers" for devices now, the damage dealt before the device goes offline is not in vain.
For devices where wound modifiers matter, sure - many are binary.
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Also, Matrix Attributes for non-specialists are pretty low now, and Matrix Damage is only resisted by the Firewall Attribute, so oneshotting weakly protected devices isnīt too hard.
Eh, most devices involve a test when using them, no? Throw a grenade, it fizzles and sparks and throws off your aim.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Finstersang

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« Reply #31 on: <11-19-21/2202:45> »
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell...

Ok, youīre right, it is too hard right now. Somehow forgot that the Damage Code is only Attack/2  in 6th  ::)

I want to highlight that I`d still love to see stuff like conditional damage bonuses and link-logging against devices, but a CM reduction of 1-3 points for certain types of personal gear seems like a good idea as well. Could also work in conjunction if balanced properly.   

« Last Edit: <11-19-21/2204:24> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

K3y

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« Reply #32 on: <11-20-21/0323:32> »
What I meant to say was that;

Rule-wise (RAW) it can for sure be read as if you can only brick personas / devices connected to personas (commlinks, cyberdecks, RCCs, ...)

But that I guess the intent (RAI) is that you can [still] brick any device. And what is new for this edition is that just causing matrix damage to any device (for example firearms etc, not just commlinks etc) will also give the user a negative dice pool modifier for tests involving said device.

Thanks. Good. So I will ask my players if they want to go RAW or RAI. If they want a more simple game, with some limitations or if they want a hacker who can break weapons, disrupt devices and so on, but a more complex and dangerous play.

Smogg

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« Reply #33 on: <11-20-21/1848:11> »
Ahh wish list.

First in general. Please keep standard equipment like comlinks price range from providing stronger matrix defense. This is the decker/technomancer's realm, the place where they are supposed to shine. Outside of hosts, the solid defense against hacking should be a hacker defending your PAN, just like you need a mage to get magic protection.

I would like to see lockdown clarified to clearly prevent any affected devices within an affected PAN from being turned wirless off, or turned off. Alternatively if that was not the intention with the rules, I think there should be a program that does this. Hacking does not feel as dangerous when you can just turn off your devices when under attack as opposed to magic or a streetsam in your face, where you dont have that option.

Would be cool to see the new matrix book cover AI player characters. I think AIs in 5th were super fun to play, but I hope in 6th they can avoid downsides that makes them extreemly risky to play. I don't think that is nessesary at all.

I loved the Cyberadept option from 5th. It would be great to see some of the technomancer options appear in 6th as well.

Oh yes, and i would really like to see some Shadowrunner matrix setup examples that makes it really clear how a team with a decker and/or rigger can set up. I imagine the team have a shared PAN where the best D/F are used for matrix defence by the Decker monitoring the PAN, but it's not really clear anywhere yet. This is really important to understand for both GM and players. Also if its possible to join a PAN, how many can join? Does a guest count as a slave since the team might might be split up / working remotely? all good things to get sorted with some examples i think.
« Last Edit: <11-29-21/0522:20> by Smogg »

lostpapers

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« Reply #34 on: <11-25-21/1017:18> »
OMG, finally a matrix book! Great news

As I'm currently deep into the matrix as I'm adapting an old scenario from SR1 (Mercurial) and that my player is a Technomancian, we have been already confronted to  some moments where we lacked some rules or required some clarifications.

Moreover, during the time I studied the rules, I really felt some  need for more details about multiple topics. So here is a list of what I really would like to read in a new book:

- A clear explanation of how all the matrix gears interact between themselves (what is a DNI, which equipment has DNI, when to use a commlink or a cyberjack, where do I put my RCC in this link, what about the technomancer contact link or RCC echo ....) and what is necessary to access different representation of the matrix  (matrix through a screen, in AR or in VR: when to use VR gloves, DNI, trodes, simsense gear, etc...)
- What happens when you sitch from AR to VR during a run in a building you are infiltrating. Some deep examples of infiltrations
- Details on how infiltration in onion servers is operated.
- Technomancer and rigging. I was disappointed that there was no mention of anything in Double Clutch
- A better explanation of Sprites. We are quite at loss sometimes on how to use them, for instance as a help on matrix search, or a help when forcing an access, or opening a backdoor
- A.I : as a menace, as an ally.
- Subdivisions of grids, GOD and demi-GODS, long distance hacking
- Gear: Commlinks, programs, decks ^^
- and a lot of useful examples

Finstersang

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« Reply #35 on: <12-08-21/1039:05> »
Quick note on Qualities: The Hacking-related perks in the Core rules are - underwhelming, to say the least (with one exeption, but Iīll safe that for the end  ::)). For the positive Qualities, the most relevant and hacker-specific is probably Hardening, but with the current VR support and for 10 Karma, I doubt that it will make the cut (well, at least it has some flavor). On the negative side, things donīt look better: Scorched has flavor potential for deckers, but for some reason, itīs almost strictly worse than AR and VR Vertigo combined. And since all 3 basically punish you for doing all of the Matrix stuff, they are just too crippling to be considered. Qualities (Negative or Positive) should be a means to add depth, but also better taylor the character for a certain playstyle. Some Suggestions:

  • Qualities that offer Advantages and/or Disadvantages for doing either Sleaze or Attack Actions.
  • ...Or hell, even legal actions: Maybe some hardcore hackers are such die-hard blackhats that they actually prefer doing stuff illegaly even if legal options are possible  :P
  • A simple return of SR4 and 5īs Codeslinger Qualitiy, offering a bonus to specific actions...
  • ... or specific targets!
  • Distinctive Style, but for the Matrix, i.e. not being able/willing to change the icon of your persona. Note that especially for Technomancers, this actually could well mean that they canīt change the outlook of their persona at all, because its somewhat "hard-coded" into their nervous system. At lower ratings of this quality, the hacker/Technomancer may be able to alter the icon, but certain iconic characteristics will always stay.
  • A qualitiy for hands-on-deckers, offering bonuses for using direct connections (if possible, in addition to other much-apreciated measures to make direct connections more relevant)
  • The opposite of VR or Simsens Vertigo, i.e. functional dependency on Matrix usage. Note that this isnīt necessarily the same as an addiction: Maybe the character is so used to using Matrix Feeds in every day life that they have trouble to do things without blinking AROs, chats and videoguides around them. Note that this can also be an interesting negative quality for non-deckers and NPCs!
 

Oh, one final, humble suggestion when it comes to Qualities or basically any new Egde-related perks:
Please, just design them as if Analytical Mind (or the derivatives from Double Clutch) doesnīt exist. Itīs bad enough that someone actually thought that any of these were balanced or a good idea, but at least they can just be confidently houseruled at any table with a sane GM to contain the damage. What canīt be contained behind is the scenes "design" decisions along the line of "Oh No, we donīt need more Egde Sources for Hackers, they can all get free Edge with Analytical Mind anyways :3" Stop rationalizing it. Just pretend it doesnīt exist. Donīt let the madness spread.
« Last Edit: <12-08-21/1135:13> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

MercilessMing

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« Reply #36 on: <12-08-21/1414:39> »
Oh, one final, humble suggestion when it comes to Qualities or basically any new Egde-related perks:
Please, just design them as if Analytical Mind (or the derivatives from Double Clutch) doesnīt exist. Itīs bad enough that someone actually thought that any of these were balanced or a good idea, but at least they can just be confidently houseruled at any table with a sane GM to contain the damage. What canīt be contained behind is the scenes "design" decisions along the line of "Oh No, we donīt need more Egde Sources for Hackers, they can all get free Edge with Analytical Mind anyways :3" Stop rationalizing it. Just pretend it doesnīt exist. Donīt let the madness spread.
Q F T
See if we can move away from the feast-or-famine edge economy of hackers.  Answer the question, what is the hacker analog for situational edge gain?  How does the hacker turn the tables in their favor when up against a superior opponent?

Xenon

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« Reply #37 on: <12-08-21/1642:14> »
what is the hacker analog for situational edge gain? 
Perhaps Hot-Sim VR against an opponent that is not?

Hobbes

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« Reply #38 on: <12-13-21/1534:31> »
Oh, one final, humble suggestion when it comes to Qualities or basically any new Egde-related perks:
Please, just design them as if Analytical Mind (or the derivatives from Double Clutch) doesnīt exist. Itīs bad enough that someone actually thought that any of these were balanced or a good idea, but at least they can just be confidently houseruled at any table with a sane GM to contain the damage. What canīt be contained behind is the scenes "design" decisions along the line of "Oh No, we donīt need more Egde Sources for Hackers, they can all get free Edge with Analytical Mind anyways :3" Stop rationalizing it. Just pretend it doesnīt exist. Donīt let the madness spread.
Q F T
See if we can move away from the feast-or-famine edge economy of hackers.  Answer the question, what is the hacker analog for situational edge gain?  How does the hacker turn the tables in their favor when up against a superior opponent?

There are many kinds of equipment that generate edge for about 1,000 Nuyen, give or take.  I argue that the other qualities that generate Edge are hot garbage and nobody will ever take them based on the mechanics.  Players may take them because they sound cool and don't care about the cost/benefit.  But nobody is taking Catlike or Double Jointed for 12 Karma.  Generate one Edge on a roll that'll come up twice in a campaign for 12 Karma?  Ew.  If those cost 0 karma at char gen, just took up a slot, still nobody would take them based on cost/benefit.  The rest are only a little bit better.

Analytical Mind and Attribute Mastery are costed about right, the rest are overpriced, IMO.   



Finstersang

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« Reply #39 on: <12-16-21/1739:24> »
AM and its new derivatives are surely not costed right, and Iīd argue no cost for these will ever be right simply because of their terrible interactions with other mechanics (the godforsaken Edge Limits, Attack and Defense Values...). They are simply "meaning sinks", and the deepest in SR6 so far. The fact that they are also obviously better than other, more flavorfull Qualities is almost irrelevant compared to this problem. If thereīs any lesson to be learnt here, then itīs this: Make sure that new options donīt completely invalidate core mechanics. If someone would actually take these horrible AM-style qualities as a blueprint for a new must-have hacking perk, it would translate to something like "+1 Edge on every hacking test unless you already earned Edge from another source". And anyone who canīt see why thereīs a problem with that sentence - regardless of any Karma cost! - should stick to writing fluff text. Seriously. 

That being said: Yes, IMO the other, more situational Edge generators are also too expensive. 12 Karma for a situational generator of (exclusive!) Edge is not a good benchmark. And especially not for potential new Matrix-related Qualities, because these would already be situational ("when you are using the Matrix...")  and then add another restriction on top ("... and attack another Icon", "... and try to defuse a Data bomb", "... and get spotted by IC" etc.).
« Last Edit: <12-16-21/1945:02> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #40 on: <12-18-21/1729:45> »
Would love to see some of the 4E Echoes and Advanced Echoes make a re-appearance. Biowire, Acceleration, Mesh Reality, etc.

Dreamwalker

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« Reply #41 on: <12-24-21/1019:46> »
Additional options for situational edge gain would certainly add depth to matrix interaction in contrast to rigid always-on options like analytical mind. Attaching edge gain to hot-sim VR might render it the default mode (considering its already substantial initiative advantage), so that no one gains edge once everybody transitions to hot-sim.

To offer an alternative suggestion: A more rock-paper-scissors-like approach may be to revive a subset of the old system familiarity knowledge skills (cf. SR3, Matrix, p. 24), granting edge on (certain) matrix actions performed in hosts that fall into a category covered by a corresponding system familiarity skill (e.g., public hosts, security hosts, engineering hosts, ...). Of course, the categories should be rather coarse-grained to keep their number manageable. This may also offer interesting synergies with skilljacks.

Regarding alleviating the need for certain (almost mandatory) qualities, introducing a (potentially costly) counterpart to spell sustaining foci for complex forms might be worth considering.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #42 on: <12-24-21/1609:47> »
Regarding alleviating the need for certain (almost mandatory) qualities, introducing a (potentially costly) counterpart to spell sustaining foci for complex forms might be worth considering.

4E had Widgets, which I think were similar? Those would also be nice to see in 6E, yes.

hulka

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« Reply #43 on: <12-28-21/1328:03> »
Closer to Electronic Warfare, it may be a specialization, even a drone has a similar program, but what that actually means.
The Agent program was mentioned in earlier rules. It's not now, but why couldn't the one who has the money have a virtual guard in the PAN?

Typhus

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« Reply #44 on: <01-07-22/2053:54> »
For me, it would be a walkthough of the procedures to use in what order for whatever you are doing.  1 > 2 >3 Style.

To sneak into a system, use this action.  Once you are in, use the following action(s) to find the file you want, then this action to go to it.  Don't forget to look for Data Bombs with the (whatever) action.  Give people a walkthrough for how to do the most common situations so the GM and player both know how certain types of runs should go. 

We also need a good guide on system responses and how to handle those mechanically too.  Every X turns, the system takes this action, etc.

Then provide some random complications that can occur.  Anything from a wage slave working late to a glitchy piece of IC that the admin is working on in the wee hours, some suggestions for flavor so the GMs have some inspirations for throwing surprises at the players (especially good if a player is getting too lucky or has way more dice than you planned on).

Agree with suggestions for sample systems to hack.  I'd recommend having the sample systems be laid out in the pdf such that they can be printed out, one sample system per page so the GM can grab one and run with it easily for on-the-fly scenarios.

Also, easy walkthroughs of gear hacking and how to do the more complex things like snooping on comm calls, making fake comm calls, hacking bank accounts, all the stuff players try to do that doesn't have a straightforward action to it.  Help deckers specialize in gear hacking.  "If you want to hack gear to help your team, make sure you get (X) and always do (Y)". 

Help people learn to play the various roles, sort of like the rigger book did for riggers.