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snowcrash

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« on: <11-14-10/1832:03> »
Looking to make sure my Robocop-esque character is legal: with cyberware, such as a torso or arms with the 'body' modification alter the base stat up to its max modified level? i.e. would a character with a Body of 2 with a cyber torso with Body 4 effctively have a modified body of 6? if so how does it work across multiple cyberlimbs?

FastJack

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« Reply #1 on: <11-14-10/1846:44> »
Cyberlimbs start at a base of 3 for Str, Bod and Agi.

If you choose Standard cyberlimbs, you have to buy increases to the attribute with cyberlimb enhancements. The enhancements add their rating to the base three up to the Augmented Maximum for you PC's attriibute. So you pay nuyen and capacity in the limb.

If you buy Customized cyberlimbs, they start at three and you simply pay extra nuyen (and raise the availability) to increase the attribute up to your natural racial attribute maximum, then you can go beyond that by purchasing enhancements just like standard cyberlimbs.

In your example, if you purchased a Standard Cybertorso, you would start a Bod 3. If you bought R4 Bod enhancement, it would cost 800¥, take up 4 slots in the torso's capacity and would be Availability 12R. This would give you a Bod of 7. If Customized, you'd start at Bod 3 and then spend 6,000¥ and increase the Torso's Availability to 16R to add 4 to the Bod, raising it to a Bod 7. The Customized torso would NOT be available at character creation since the Availability is over 12.

snowcrash

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« Reply #2 on: <11-15-10/0642:18> »
Right, got it. but what happens when you have said torso with a modified body of 7 and then add a pair of cyberarms which start at body 3 and you pay out for two additional levels taking the arms to body 5? do the limb stats only come into effect when they're used for tests?

esprism

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« Reply #3 on: <11-15-10/0756:45> »
Cyberlimb bonuses only apply to the cyberlimb, not whole body or other cyberlimbs.

If you have to make a test implying several parts, you use the average value (rounded down).

Small parts like hands or foots don't count. The limbs value only apply for an action made exclusively with this part.

If you make a test for an action that require a coordination between members, you take the lowest value.

For exemple :
 - running with one cyberleg with 6 str and PC str 2 would use 2 dices for str.
 - resist damage with a cybertorso with 7 body and PC body 2 would be 7+2/2 = 4 dices for body.

For my tables, I count 6 parts (head, torso, 2 legs and 2 arms) and I make average value between them. (for previous example : (2*5+7)/6 = 2).
« Last Edit: <11-15-10/0802:20> by esprism »
Can I do a structural analysis ?
(I have only one dice in English :p)

Mäx

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« Reply #4 on: <11-15-10/0827:27> »
For my tables, I count 6 parts (head, torso, 2 legs and 2 arms) and I make average value between them. (for previous example : (2*5+7)/6 = 2).
That actually is the RAW way to handle it.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

esprism

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« Reply #5 on: <11-15-10/0845:40> »
Well example I have in my SR4A book is (in Gear part) :

(for body)
Base attribute 3
Torso 6
Left Arm 3
One Leg 5

Result given for average body is 4 = (3+6+3+5) / 4

With 6 parts rules : (3*3+6+3+5) / 6 = 3

If you have the chapter reference with clear explanation about 6 parts it would be nice ;)
Can I do a structural analysis ?
(I have only one dice in English :p)

FastJack

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« Reply #6 on: <11-15-10/1007:46> »
Quote from: SR4A, p. 343
When a particular limb is used for a test (such as leading an attack with your cyberarm), use the attribute for that limb (natural or cyber); in any other case, take the average value of all limbs involved in the task (round down). If a task requires the careful coordination of several limbs, use the value of the weakest limb. The attributes of partial limbs (including cyberhands and –feet) may be enhanced, but their attributes only apply for tests directly involving those limbs (such as a Strength Test when gripping something with an enhanced cyberhand). Cyberlimbs cannot hold any bioware, nor any cyber-implants that take up Essence rather than Capacity. Essence cost, Capacity, and other stats can be found on the Cyberlimb table (below).
Here's how it works:

If you are attempting to crush a pipe in your cyberhand, you would use that cyberhand's Strength and ignore strength from everything else.

If you're attempting to run away from a pack of hellhounds (hey, Codec), and have one Cyberleg (Str 6) and your other leg is meat (Str 3), you would take the average of the two [(6+3)/2=4] to add to the dice pool. Your arms and body don't factor in.

If you're trying to do a Rhythm Dance in the Olympics (just go with it...), you'd need to use the lowest value from all the limbs involved: Right Arm (Agi 3); Left Cyberarm (Agi 6); Cyberlegs (Agi 7) = Agi 3 for the test.

If you're doing a Damage Resistance test, you factor in everything: (From esprism's numbers) Torso (6) + Head (3) + RA (3) + LA (3) + RL (5) + LL (3) = 23/6 = 3.

esprism

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« Reply #7 on: <11-15-10/1852:05> »
You don't have the example in us version ? maybe a translation/adaptation problem ^_^.

In the example I have "If a task requires the careful coordination of several limbs, use the value of the weakest limb." apply to running but I agree it's a not the best way to apply the rule... Except if you don't want to limp.

Maybe I'll buy us version pdf to compare ;) (and to give references when needed :D)
Can I do a structural analysis ?
(I have only one dice in English :p)

Mäx

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« Reply #8 on: <11-16-10/0228:28> »
Well example I have in my SR4A book is (in Gear part) :

(for body)
Base attribute 3
Torso 6
Left Arm 3
One Leg 5

Result given for average body is 4 = (3+6+3+5) / 4

With 6 parts rules : (3*3+6+3+5) / 6 = 3

If you have the chapter reference with clear explanation about 6 parts it would be nice ;)
The example is wrong, most likely a rounding error as 23/6 = 3,833 which rounds to 4 if you forget that your supposed to round down.

For the system to produses sensible results you have to use all six body part for the averaging, other wise some really weird results ensue:
For example a guy with Body 3 gets a cyber torso with body 7
Not using all limbs His average body becomes (3+7)/2 = 5 and the player is happy that his torso gives a major boost to his Body
But then he gets a cyber arm with the standard 3 Body and now even tough the arm has same Body as most of him the calculation becomes
(3+3+7)/3 = 4 meaning that adding a limb with equivalent body to his natural attribute caused the averaged body to go down and thats just bonkers.
"An it harm none, do what you will"