[BrysenBlue]

I realize I am just 'one customer" but unless we are provided with a price guide for the animals in Howling Shadows within the next month, I will no longer support Shadowrun. It would take less than an hour to bang together a list and upload a PDF. There is no excuse. I purchased this book and I do not have costs or availability for any of the content.

I do not want to buy another book, I do not want to go to another edition. I want an actual price and availability guide for the material in the book that I paid for.

[Herr Brackhaus]

For what it's worth, Wakshaani (one of the writers) made a comment on this on Reddit:

For the record, this price/availability's mentioned in every thread, everywhere. Which is kind of odd to me as it's only been seen once before, while all other critterbooks were, well, Monster Manuals. GM tools, so costs didn't matter.
.
But by thunder, if people want to play critterhandlers, who am I to say otherwise?
.
It'll obviously be listed for a FAQ, but I'll see if we can't churn something out sooner, if only in an unofficial way, ASAP.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/4l4wdg/fixing_howling_shadows/

[PiXeL01]

Blue, join the screaming crowd right next to the rest of us bashing ourselves bloody against the ivory tower that's Catalyst HQ.
They
Don't
Care
About
Us

[Beta]

Just curious, are people looking to have trained (para-, techno-) critters to bring with them on runs?  Or is this just a matter of wanting cool pets, for colour?

(I'm just puzzled by the uproar, because out of the top ten things I wanted out of Howling Shadows, critter prices wouldn't have been on the list.  Heck, if I'd stretched to fill a top twenty list I still don't think critter prices would have been on the list.  Possibly because I've never seen a game that had pet prices unless they were a) the equivalent of vehicles and drones (horses to ride around on, guard dogs for your estate, etc), or the 'cost' was in rules currency not game-world currency, using side-kick rules (something that admittedly SR doesn't have -- and which might have been on my hypothetical top ten list).

That so many people feel that THIS is Catalyst's biggest fault has just left me confused.  Was it somewhere promised that we'd be able to buy critters, and it wasn't delivered on, or something?

[Fabe]

For what it's worth, Wakshaani (one of the writers) made a comment on this on Reddit:

For the record, this price/availability's mentioned in every thread, everywhere. Which is kind of odd to me as it's only been seen once before, while all other critterbooks were, well, Monster Manuals. GM tools, so costs didn't matter.
.
But by thunder, if people want to play critterhandlers, who am I to say otherwise?
.
It'll obviously be listed for a FAQ, but I'll see if we can't churn something out sooner, if only in an unofficial way, ASAP.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/4l4wdg/fixing_howling_shadows/

wait, So all other critter books with the exception of one had no prices? So in other words the lack of prices isn't some mistake or incompetence  but pretty much par for the course for shadowrun animal guilds? In that case I think some people are now officially complaining  just to complain.

[忍]

I think the outcry is more so due to there being information that modifies critter costs while there being no costs for the critters. There's an implied cost that seemly didn't find it's way in the book. Catalyst has done poorly with Shadowrun merchandise lately. This is just comes across as a big ball drop.

[Medicineman]

Hmmm the Running Wild in SR4A HAD a Critter Price List
( in the German Wildwechsel ist at Page 43, seperated in Normal Animals and Paracritter  )
 So Wakshaani is wrong with that
I get the Feeling the good Guy is not as ....aware of the 4A rules and contents ( )

The complaint, I feel ,is aboutthe Answers of JMH in the Twitterlink.
because the Crunch in Howling Shadows clearly indicate a Critter Price/availiability List
and to say that there has never been any Intention to produce such a list is contrary to that.

>>> Just curious, are people looking to have trained (para-, techno-) critters to bring with them on runs?  Or is this just a matter of wanting cool pets, for colour?
 in my case both
riding on a Horse in a Wilderness Run or seeing through the Eyes of a Pet Falcon in the Sky or Fighting alongside to Armored Wolfes or just breeding Housecats  or Hellhounds for some Money
are all possibiliies that some of my Chars don't want to miss

He who likes to Dance with Animals
Medicinemna

[BrysenBlue]

Just curious, are people looking to have trained (para-, techno-) critters to bring with them on runs?  Or is this just a matter of wanting cool pets, for colour?

(I'm just puzzled by the uproar, because out of the top ten things I wanted out of Howling Shadows, critter prices wouldn't have been on the list.  Heck, if I'd stretched to fill a top twenty list I still don't think critter prices would have been on the list.  Possibly because I've never seen a game that had pet prices unless they were a) the equivalent of vehicles and drones (horses to ride around on, guard dogs for your estate, etc), or the 'cost' was in rules currency not game-world currency, using side-kick rules (something that admittedly SR doesn't have -- and which might have been on my hypothetical top ten list).

That so many people feel that THIS is Catalyst's biggest fault has just left me confused.  Was it somewhere promised that we'd be able to buy critters, and it wasn't delivered on, or something?

I would like trained animals. But I also want to steal animals from a zoo and sell them on the black market. My character currently lives in a W-Zone and has to hunt to live for his "Gone Native" lifestyle. So I figured for some extra nuyen I could catch and trap a few critters and sell them. Only, there are no prices listed and no availability so I have no way of addressing this.

[Herr Brackhaus]

wait, So all other critter books with the exception of one had no prices? So in other words the lack of prices isn't some mistake or incompetence  but pretty much par for the course for shadowrun animal guilds? In that case I think some people are now officially complaining  just to complain.

Well, in my opinion his statement is a bit of an exaggeration. As far as I know there's only really been three dedicated critter books before Howling Shadows; Paranormal Animals of North America (1st Edition), Paranormal Animals of Europe (2nd Edition), and Running Wild (4th Edition). I'd have to check my shelves to be sure, but stating that "all" books before Running Wild didn't have cost tables is... well, a little off-putting, in my personal opinion.

And I for one don't think it's a non-issue; previous editions aside, if there's one thing I as a GM miss from 5th it's more concrete rules information. How much does it actually cost to install security cameras in a 4 story building? What kind of wages are normal for PR1 to PR6 NPCs? How much extra does a wage mage cost?

I think there is absolutely room for more nuanced rules that helps a GM along instead of, as I'm currently doing, just guesstimating a whole heck of a lot.

[Banshee]

For what it's worth we will be addressing this issue as part of the Mission's FAQ and we will be basing it on Running Wild, but it will be a few weeks at least if not July before it get's posted since we are off to Origins next week.

[BrysenBlue]

My first character was a Skunk Shaman, I understood when they didn't put skunk stats in Howling, I will deal with that. But no base cost?

I honestly expected one of the freelancers to fix it up immediately, just to help out the community. I know its not a lot of work. It would take no time at all, but I don't want to do it for myself. I want it in an "official" capacity, so one particular player in our group won't bellyache and nitpick over it.

I don't intend to be a "loud outraged voice" as that gets nowhere, but in a month if at the very least I do not have a price for the stuff in the book I just purchased I will be upset. They have a few different references to modifying the base costs, but no base cost. Closest we have is the costs listed in Chrome Flesh. And it doesn't mention normal critters, just chimera and its a broad range. So far from satisfactory.

When all is said and done, if we do not have this addressed within a month I am just going to stop buying Shadowrun products. There are other games and we can continue to use the material we have already purchased. I'd understand if it was something obscure (like not having the skunk or rabbit, etc.) but there is just no excuse for this and no excuse for it not having been addressed yet. 

Seriously, its as easy as making a list and then writing an availability number and a nuyen cost. Done.

[BrysenBlue]

For what it's worth we will be addressing this issue as part of the Mission's FAQ and we will be basing it on Running Wild, but it will be a few weeks at least if not July before it get's posted since we are off to Origins next week.

Thanks for the response. Not trying to bust your balls here, but essentially the GM isnt going to let us use anything in this book without prices and availability to roll against. So I just dropped $30 on a book I can't use and I'm pretty annoyed.

[Banshee]

For what it's worth we will be addressing this issue as part of the Mission's FAQ and we will be basing it on Running Wild, but it will be a few weeks at least if not July before it get's posted since we are off to Origins next week.

Thanks for the response. Not trying to bust your balls here, but essentially the GM isnt going to let us use anything in this book without prices and availability to roll against. So I just dropped $30 on a book I can't use and I'm pretty annoyed.

your not busting anything of mine 
but please remember that while many people see the Missions FAQ as "gospel" the CDT and by extension the Missions FAQ is volunteer driven and therefore not truly official but we do what we can to provide a comprehensive game environment ... we are essentially just the GM by committee to a few thousand players

[odd]

I would also suggest not getting mad at the freelancers if they can't get one out, they might get in trouble for doing it if the higher ups aren't ok with it.

[BrysenBlue]

I don't know how Catalyst works, but if they'd be upset about one of the freelancers that worked on the book giving us a table with essential gaming information on it, then I would call into question their leadership. It is not like I (we) are demanding a paragrpah or more content, just the prices that are referenced throughout the book and do not appear.

If that is too much to ask, this isn't a company I am comfortable lending my financial support to.