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probability

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Jeeves

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« on: <02-03-11/1019:32> »
Anyone here ever play Mage the Awakening in the nWoD system? I want to make a fate mage, but in shadowrun.

Is it possible for magic to alter probability?

joe15552

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« Reply #1 on: <02-03-11/1036:04> »
Never played Mage, but there's a couple things that come to mind:

The "Guard' power prevents glitches from occurring. That's a spirit power that Earth and Man spirits get by default, and Air, Beast, Fire, or Water spirits can choose as an optional power.

The "Accident" power causes glitches. That's a spirit power that Air, Fire, and Man spirits get by default, and Water spirits can choose as an optional power.

If you want to cast spells that do those things, you would need to discuss with your GM the balance issues there, then invent a spell with appropriate drain. Spirit powers are not spells for a reason, some of them are very nasty... Fear is probably the one that I hear most complaints about its power... Or your mage could just use spirits to do those things.

FastJack

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« Reply #2 on: <02-03-11/1041:03> »
Since there's (currently) no spells that affect the Edge attribute, I'd say not really.

You could use spells to buff/debuff other attributes and skills, increasing/decreasing their chance of success, but nothing that directly alters fate like other systems. Combat Sense is the closest, adding Reaction dice to Surprise tests.

Jeeves

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« Reply #3 on: <02-03-11/1305:22> »
Here's more specific questions:

IS it possible to use a health spell like "increase (attribute)" to increase edge temporarily? if you spend edge, you add your edge dice plus the force4 of the spell. The spell wouldn't actually raise your edge attribute

Would it be possible to make a tradition that uses edge as the drain resistance attribute?

how about a spell that causes attacks to miss more often?

Would it be possible to cast a spell to make someone have bad luck for an extended time, like 6-edge hours?

Perhaps enchant normal items to have good/bad luck for whoever is using them?


The character I played in nWoD was a "Lucky gunslinger" named Chance. (jno, really.) He lived on top of a casino, and would use his magic to subtly alter the probability of winning in the casino games. He carried two pistols, which were magically touched to be more successful in his hands.

As a fate mage you can ask for things to "happen" for example, you cast a spell and that old looking chandolier just happens to fall on the vampire who'se got you cornered. you basically magically have things "just happen to do this" at the right moment and whatnot.

I remember making a thread about customs spells which would decrease the number of ones needed to glitch, (like a gremlins spell, but for all sorts of situations)

So, what I'm hoping to do is have a lucky gunslinger/detective type. have him harder to hit, have him have a high edge,

they way i see it, most mages can say to a normal person "I can do things you can't even dream of doing. I have more power in a fingertip than you do in your whole body."
but the fate mage simply walks into the room, and says to a normal person "Anything you can do, I can do better, faster, and while whistling your favorite show-tune."

Ryo

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« Reply #4 on: <02-03-11/1314:24> »
You'd have to houserule most all of that for Shadowrun, so really you'd have to sit down with your GM and hammer out something that works out for both of you.

FastJack

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« Reply #5 on: <02-03-11/1423:54> »
All below is moot if the GM decides to let you do it.

Here's more specific questions:

IS it possible to use a health spell like "increase (attribute)" to increase edge temporarily? if you spend edge, you add your edge dice plus the force4 of the spell. The spell wouldn't actually raise your edge attribute
No, per the listing of Increase Attribute/Decrease Attribute spells:
Quote from: SR4A, p. 207 & 208
A version of this spell exists for each Physical and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes (Initiative, Edge, Essence, Magic, or Resonance).
Would it be possible to make a tradition that uses edge as the drain resistance attribute?
No, since the Drain Attribute must be a Mental attribute (SR4A, p. 180, Creating a Tradition). Just like you can't use Strength nor Magic, Edge is out.
how about a spell that causes attacks to miss more often?

Would it be possible to cast a spell to make someone have bad luck for an extended time, like 6-edge hours?

Perhaps enchant normal items to have good/bad luck for whoever is using them?
These may be more likely, but you'd also have to remember that for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. So, if you create a spell that makes the target miss more often (i.e., reduces the hits on their Attack roll), then there's going to be an equal spell of making the target hit more often (and your GM will more than likely use it against you ;)).

Ryo

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« Reply #6 on: <02-03-11/1434:11> »

how about a spell that causes attacks to miss more often?

Would it be possible to cast a spell to make someone have bad luck for an extended time, like 6-edge hours?

Perhaps enchant normal items to have good/bad luck for whoever is using them?
These may be more likely, but you'd also have to remember that for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. So, if you create a spell that makes the target miss more often (i.e., reduces the hits on their Attack roll), then there's going to be an equal spell of making the target hit more often (and your GM will more than likely use it against you ;)).

I could see these basically being Increase [Skill] spells, just like Increase [Attribute], and would function similarly to the Adept power. You sustain the power on your ally, and he gets a modified skill rank, and thus more dice, which would make him more likely to hit. There would also be the Decrease [Skill] spell that does the opposite, much like Decrease [Attribute].

The only problem with such spells is that they would be heal spells, and thus, by the nature of heal spells, require you touch the target. It's not particularly helpful to have a skill that makes gunfire less accurate when you have to be at point blank range to deliver it. You'd have to discuss with your DM allowing an LOS version, which would easily be gamebreaking.

Jeeves

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« Reply #7 on: <02-03-11/1553:09> »
Okay, thanks to fastjack for the thing about the increase attribute answer.

I found some spells i can use as a "substitute" for some of what i needed to do.

Combat sense, Deflect, Increase Reflexes, and Enhance Aim, which doesn't add dice, but reduces modifiers. I'm okay with that.

As for the cursing parts, (giving someone else bad luck) I think I'll run a few ideas past the GM.

Thanks for the help.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #8 on: <02-03-11/2133:01> »
For "cursing," you may want to check out some of the illusion spells.  These can add dice pool modifiers, and can have a variety of fluff explanations.  One could even create a mental only illusion that only the targets of the illusion can see.

My first ever Shadowrun character was a former wage mage who was an illusion specialist.  chaotic world is an extremely handy spell.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Critias

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« Reply #9 on: <02-04-11/0210:26> »
For "cursing," you may want to check out some of the illusion spells.  These can add dice pool modifiers, and can have a variety of fluff explanations.  One could even create a mental only illusion that only the targets of the illusion can see.

My first ever Shadowrun character was a former wage mage who was an illusion specialist.  chaotic world is an extremely handy spell.
Exactly what I was about to suggest.  As long as the effects were mechanically the same as an existing spell (general die pool modifiers), I don't think a GM would be very likely to object to you essentially just changing the name of existing spells.  Whether someone's having trouble shooting straight because you're surrounding them with hallucinations, or because they're suddenly unlucky, tripping on something, their helmet strap loosened and is in their eyes, yadda yadda yadda, seems like a moot point to me.

Bradd

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« Reply #10 on: <02-04-11/0325:21> »
Yeah, at that point you're just talking about role-playing details of a tradition, just like the difference between mages and shamans.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #11 on: <02-04-11/0428:15> »
One could even say that their bad luck is strictly perceived bad luck, an entirely mental fabrication.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

FastJack

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« Reply #12 on: <02-04-11/0813:36> »
For "cursing," you may want to check out some of the illusion spells.  These can add dice pool modifiers, and can have a variety of fluff explanations.  One could even create a mental only illusion that only the targets of the illusion can see.

My first ever Shadowrun character was a former wage mage who was an illusion specialist.  chaotic world is an extremely handy spell.
Exactly what I was about to suggest.  As long as the effects were mechanically the same as an existing spell (general die pool modifiers), I don't think a GM would be very likely to object to you essentially just changing the name of existing spells.  Whether someone's having trouble shooting straight because you're surrounding them with hallucinations, or because they're suddenly unlucky, tripping on something, their helmet strap loosened and is in their eyes, yadda yadda yadda, seems like a moot point to me.
Oooh... Here you go. Take a look at Illusion spells that would do that, but change them to Manipulation spells instead. Physical instead of Mana. ;)

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #13 on: <02-04-11/0945:37> »
I'm kinda liking my "perceived bad luck" idea.  I might have to work on that one.

The fluff for the manipulation spell could be something like "random pelting of the target with forces emanating from random directions."

One could even make a health based spell, give it a range other than "touch," and jiggle someone's nervous system.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

FastJack

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« Reply #14 on: <02-04-11/0953:01> »
I'm kinda liking my "perceived bad luck" idea.  I might have to work on that one.

The fluff for the manipulation spell could be something like "random pelting of the target with forces emanating from random directions."

One could even make a health based spell, give it a range other than "touch," and jiggle someone's nervous system.
Or the manipulation is a loosening of a buckle, their AR glasses slip, or the primer in a bullet is a dud. ;)