[Loki]

Edge doesn't let you take a 6th IP.  Hell, Edge won't even give you the 5th IP you get from the simsense booster/simsense accelerator combo.

I thought the hard SR4A ruling specified: No character can get more than 4 IP.

Is there a rule I've missed somewhere that trumps this?

TMs and hackers can get 5 in the matrix without using edge.

p.147 unwired Advanced Overclocking
Prerequisite: Overclocking
Advanced Overclocking has the same effect as taking
Overclocking twice (counting the prerequisite echo). Together with
the Overclocking echo, the technomancer receives a total bonus of
+2 Response and +2 Initiative Passes while operating in full-sim VR
(with the 2 extra Initiative Passes from hot-sim VR, this grants the
technomancer an IP of 5; this is an exception to the rule that normally
limits IPs to 4).
And p.198 unwired
Simsense Accelerator
This state-of-the-art mod increases the speed at which simsense
signals are transmitted between the commlink and a persona controlled
via hot-sim VR. It increases a VR-using character’s Matrix
Initiative Passes by 1. It does not boost Matrix Initiative in cold-sim
VR or AR. It is compatible with simsense booster cyberware (so a
hacker in hot sim with a simsense accelerator and simsense booster
cyberware has 5 Initiative Passes). Initiative Passes; this is an exception
to the rule that normally limits IPs to 4).

[James McMurray]

Some implants and magic may give a character extra actions to take in each Combat Turn. These are noted as extra Initiative Passes on the character’s record sheet. The maximum number of Initiative Passes a character can have is 5, but most character types can only ever achieve 4.

Edge isn't one of them, it is another factor that isn't bound by this rule.
But please, let us return to the topic.

How can you cay Edge isn't limited to 5 IP? The general rule for Initiaive Passes is "The maximum number of Initiative Passes a character can have is 5". Where is the specific rule that lets Edge ignore that?

[The_Gun_Nut]

On page 145 of SR4A, under INITIATIVE PASSES:

Most characters may not act in more than 4 Initiative Passes in a Combat Turn (even if they spend Edge).

So Edge won't buy you that 5th pass, it take specialized cyber/powers to get that fast (technomancers can do it with a special ability, off the top of my head).

[Inarai]

On page 145 of SR4A, under INITIATIVE PASSES:

Most characters may not act in more than 4 Initiative Passes in a Combat Turn (even if they spend Edge).

So Edge won't buy you that 5th pass, it take specialized cyber/powers to get that fast (technomancers can do it with a special ability, off the top of my head).

The Overclocking and Advanced Overclocking Echoes, yes - and they can burn another 2+ to split them between meat and VR: 2 to start the trick up at all - Multiprocessing and it's base echo, I think - plus Biowire into Acceleration(mimics Wired Reflexes) to be able to use more passes meat-side.

For those unfamiliar with technomancer rules, that's the equivalent of 6 bits of metamagic.  Expensive trick.  TM Riggers are better for the first while using high-rating Machine Sprites to run their drones, I'd say. 

[monkeyfeet228]

This is a little off-topic but how is your player going about making a drone with 20 arms in the first place? The biggest non-anthroform drones have a body of only 4 and with an arm taking up 2 slots there'd only be 2 arms to play with, unless they're going with the crappy arm but that doesn't take advantage of the cyberlimb mods. So are they planning on mounting these mods on a truck and if so how does that work out logistically in a fight (are all the arms in a line on the side? and why not just run the guy over?)?

[Kontact]

Might as well ask why a human can't run as fast as a car.

Machines are better at lots of things.
The rules reflect that.

[CanRay]

Drones have advantages in abilities and inability to complain about lack of soykaf breaks.

Humans have initiative and intuition, as long as you hire the right people at least.  (By the same token, buy the wrong drone and it's in the shop waiting for spare parts from Eastern Europe or somewhere.).

Points and counterpoints, checks and balances.  It all depends on how the Suit wants to set up his security, and how much he listens to the Security Adviser he's over/underpaying.

[esprism]

- You get up to 5 IP and your Initiative up to (Response + INT +8 )

I don't know the rules for +8 init, can you inform me where it come from ? I know +1 hotsim and +1 custom interface.

The Complex action to control vehicles is necessary during pursuit phase, not during "static" combat. But you still need to take actions for difficult movements.

I don't think you can rig a meta-human, but check bio-drones mandatory augmentations, very expensive essence cost.

Drones are good, but they are not easy to hide or to use in common circumstances. In real games, drones are not so good. Drones are often specialized for a single task and the rigger need a lot of skills to be efficient with all of them.

[Kontact]

I don't know the rules for +8 init, can you inform me where it come from ? I know +1 hotsim and +1 custom interface.

+6 from Response Enhancers.  It'll take you up to like Avail 30, so don't expect to find too many people rocking that.

The Complex action to control vehicles is necessary during pursuit phase, not during "static" combat. But you still need to take actions for difficult movements.

Check out the section of Vehicle Combat on Tactical Combat again.  Every time a drone is involved in combat it's considered TC. 
First rule listed under the TC entry is: "Drivers must spend at least one Complex Action each turn driving their vehicle, or the vehicle goes out of control at the end of the Combat Turn."  You have to remember that the controlling character also gets dodge dice in the form of Response or Command.  Without an operate step in there, that wouldn't make any sense.

I don't think you can rig a meta-human, but check bio-drones mandatory augmentations, very expensive essence cost.

Stirrup interface only costs .5 essence more than the Move-by-Wire system whose benefits it provides.  Though, if you're rigging yourself full time, then you only need the level 1 version to get your full VR drone-operation bonuses.  Remote control your own body with huge dice pools and a starting initiative score in the 20s!  (Or, just get a clone body and use that, as AIs tend to do.)

Drones are good, but they are not easy to hide or to use in common circumstances. In real games, drones are not so good. Drones are often specialized for a single task and the rigger need a lot of skills to be efficient with all of them.

If you are outside, ever, a drone can kill you.  In a building, during an infiltration, not so much.

[Xzylvador]

If you are outside, ever, a drone can kill you.  In a building, during an infiltration, not so much.

What? Like that VTOL with a Heavy Autocannon mounted can't fly through hallways?
Heck, with the kind of damage that thing does, it'll shoot you through the roof from 2km above you unless you're inside an armored bunker. Only need a microdrone or person with a laser designator inside to point at the target.

[CanRay]

And there's Rail-Mounted Drones designed specifically for inside buildings.

Some even have weapon switch-out modules so that the Spider can mix and match loads and weapons depending on how militant (s)he feels.

[Kontact]

And there's Rail-Mounted Drones designed specifically for inside buildings.

Some even have weapon switch-out modules so that the Spider can mix and match loads and weapons depending on how militant (s)he feels.

I mostly meant for players sneaking drones into a building on the sly, though it would be hilarious to show up at an Ares facility and start dumping drones onto their rail. 

[esprism]

Check out the section of Vehicle Combat on Tactical Combat again.  Every time a drone is involved in combat it's considered TC.

Ok, big mistake from me sorry.

Response enhancer is nice, I missed that... The thing I need to act "as fast" in the matrix than in flesh world with my 16 init ^^
Easy 15 hot sim matrix init  at creation if you've got 5 intuition it's nice.

For stirrup interface I consider there is only 3.5 essence version, depends on personal consideration. It's clear that it's equal to lvl 2 m-b-w to conform drones rules with standard 3 IP.

[Exodus]

...though it would be hilarious to show up at an Ares facility and start dumping drones onto their rail. 

You'd be giving Ares free drones.
Page 118 of Arsenal

The new “R” series is a special security and defense system hardened against wireless intruders due to the fact that the rail drones are controlled via contacts in the rail system.

In one of my games I had a clever hacker/part-time rigger infect a system with a virus by replacing a rail drone with his own with the spoofed unit ID of the original. It was pretty inspired since it let him jump straight to the security node while bypassing the firewall and the rest of the system architecture. Some lucky dice rolls kept the virus package from causing a sort of cascading failure but it did buy the team plenty of time while the spiders ran around doing damage control.

[Redwulfe]

it seems like trying to rigg for the win would be a power game that is doomed to failure. The world has lots of hackers and with normal effort on there part, Spoofing to gain control of the drone,  locating your GPS and sending in a hit team, shutting down nodes that control the drone, and more you are setting your self up to be shut down hard by another hacker or rigger on the opposition. It may seem like an "on or off" situation bu the off is part of the normal world that is shadowrun. So, the natural deterrent to this is that the rigger doesn't want to put all of his eggs in one basket. Any good team knows that you must be able to deal with many things on the run and if I was a fixer or face putting a team together I would choose a more rounded individual rather than rigger elite, when I know that rigger elite may be useless to me half the time. If you treat shadowrun as a world that is living and breathing instead of a set of rules in a book you see that the fixer wouldn't hire them as much and the rigger elite would just not be someone I would wish on my team as it affects my bottom line and the ability of my team to effectively complete the mission. on the other hand maybe he just does legwork and recon for us and doesn't go on the run itself. then it may not be as good for the player as we wouldn't bring him on the run. or we start doing nothing but runs that will not pit us against another hacker. Or we would have to put or hacker on protecting the rigger, but that has the adverse effect of having our hacker babysitting the rigger instead of keeping us of the cameras.

I guess the point is, is that most people running and playing shadowrun seems to be to focused on the combat and not enough on the world and the game of surviving in the distopian future, and the cyberpunk style in general. Most players just see it as D&D with cool gear and if you take out the story then things like this will be overpowered. but when you add it in it comes back in balance. Criminals don't go in guns a blazing and if they do they won't be criminals for long they would be hunted down by other teams gunned down or put in jail.

Red