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Best machine pistol?

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Tsuzua

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« Reply #45 on: <08-11-12/0000:39> »
Suppose that's another mark in the MP9's corner, but clip size is pretty important for akimbo madness, since reloading is a pain when you've got  both hands full.
Is it?  If the fight's gone longer than 3 passes (18 rounds BF or 27 rounds FA each gun), you've already won, been taken out, or can take the time to reload mid fight.  If you haven't taken out everyone with 12 shots*, return fire should have taken you out long ago.  If you're missing that much, you shouldn't be using two guns at once so you can get your dice pool up high enough to hit.  If you do need to reload, it's only 3 passes.  That's going to be like 3 seconds which is nothing if you're not in combat.

*: Generally if you're flinging around SnS spam, you should be able to two shot most NPCs.  That's 6 people down.  If you had 7 shooting at you at start and you take 2 out before they can act, that's 10 shots at you minimum. That's going to mess you up or you can afford to take 2 more from the last survivor.

Kontact

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« Reply #46 on: <08-11-12/0537:40> »
When you're trying to shoot your way out of a secured facility with unsilenced fire, the only time it's safe to reload is when you don't have to.

JustADude

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« Reply #47 on: <08-11-12/0558:17> »
When you're trying to shoot your way out of a secured facility with unsilenced fire, the only time it's safe to reload is when you don't have to.

And that, right there, is why I like the "alternating fire" version of dual-wielding. You just need RC 5 on each gun to fully eat the penalties, which makes it much easier to fit in a Sound Suppressor. ;)
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #48 on: <08-11-12/1045:50> »
When you're trying to shoot your way out of a secured facility with unsilenced fire, the only time it's safe to reload is when you don't have to.
It's seriously 3 seconds.  You likely can even keep moving while reloading since you're putting away stuff and not just dropping it as a free action.  You take out 6 guys, reload, and continue in 6 seconds.  If you have 2 minutes to get out, you've only used up 5% of your time worst case.  If you didn't have to reload, you're only saved 3 seconds or 2.5%. If you really can't stop to reload, maybe you should just be using one firearm at a time since it's not security guards that's your weakness but a 2 second window. 

I guess if guards were coming in 2 at a time every 3 seconds and you had to defeat them in a new battle each time, reloading might matter.  But in that case, the guards really ought to wait 3 seconds and come in a group of 4 and take you out.  They aren't in a martial arts film with guns. 

Edit- There's also the fact that the vast majority of games once combat is done, no one keeps a careful track of time.  You can just say "I reload" as you go out of combat time.  If you are keeping in combat time, the 2 minute countdown is seriously 40 combat turns and that's a huge pain in the ass to keep track. Record keeping alone (asking people what they're going to do on their action and them saying "I hold" and keeping track if it's pass 25 or 27) is going to cost you a fair amount of real life time for what basically is "I want to make sure on the off chance a 2 second longer reload will kill your character."
« Last Edit: <08-11-12/1127:30> by Tsuzua »

Kontact

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« Reply #49 on: <08-14-12/0636:03> »
The opposing force can cover a lot of ground in 3 seconds.  So can players.

In 2 minutes, you could crack and bypass 20 maglocks or run 1000 meters.

3 seconds in SR is much longer than 3 seconds in real life.
If it takes you 2 minutes to get out of a building with a full alert in progress, it's because you're coming out in custody.
« Last Edit: <08-14-12/0657:49> by Kontact »

Tsuzua

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« Reply #50 on: <08-14-12/0808:12> »
The opposing force can cover a lot of ground in 3 seconds.  So can players.

In 2 minutes, you could crack and bypass 20 maglocks or run 1000 meters.

3 seconds in SR is much longer than 3 seconds in real life.
If it takes you 2 minutes to get out of a building with a full alert in progress, it's because you're coming out in custody.
That's because you've been curb stomped by spirits and you're just toast a matter what you do.  Reinforcements that already weren't there aren't going to come in 2 minutes. 

If you're planning a dual machine gun escape, then you can already beat up everyone there.  Otherwise they are going to group up instead of coming one at a time and that'll just destroy you.  You might also just want to single wield since if you're pressed for time you don't want to put away your second gun all the time to open doors.  If you encounter 2 unlocked doors, that's a reload right there.  A maglock is 2 reloads at best and you'll need to put away at least one firearm to do that.