[Sengir]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the actual best machine pistol (and a couple people mentioned things that aren't actually machine pistols...). The B&P MP-9 is just blatantly better than everything else, because it has inherent recoil compensation.

The good ol' Crusader has a  Gas Vent 2 and a larger mag*err* clip. Only thing the MP-9 has going for it is the FA mode, which can be easily modded (interestingly enough, the small Fire Selection Change is still R)

[UmaroVI]

The problem with that line of thought is that while the Crusader comes with a gas-vent 2, that's not actually very helpful. You can attach a Gas-Vent 3 to the MP9 for a tiny amount of money, but you can't get the 1 point of inherent RC that the MP9 has any other way.

[TheNarrator]

"Comes with a Gas-Vent 2" is a negative for a weapon, rather than a positive, because you're stuck using a Gas-Vent 2. If you were going to have a Gas-Vent on a weapon (and there's situations where you won't want to, because the length hurts concealability--important because the OP is looking for a sidearm--and it can't work with a suppressor) then you'd use a Gas-Vent 3. It's right up there with "comes with a laser sight" in an edition where anyone can use a smartlink: why would you want it to?

Pretty much any recoil mod or accessory (gas vent, foregrip/underbarrel weight, stock/shock pad) can be added to a weapon that doesn't have it later, so the best weapons for handling recoil are the ones with inherent RC that stacks with mods/accessories, like the FN 5-7C, FN P93, Ares Alpha, Ruger Thunderbolt, etc.

[Mäx]

MP-7 with a shortened barrel(don't ask me how that would actually work) is IMO a pretty good alternative for a machine pistol, giving +1 to damage and AP -1 for 1 point higher concelability.
Pretty much the only downside is that it cant be smartlinked.

[TheNarrator]

Heck, if you're going to go with the "shortened SMG" route, there's tons of options there. The FN P-93 is probably the best choice statistically, being an SA/BF/FA weapon with 50 rounds and a point of inherent recoil comp, if one can overlook the question of how the heck the barrel could get any shorter when it already barely extends past the grip. Or if you want a more pistol-like weapon, there lots of weapons in the "SMG" category that should arguably be considered machine pistols, like the Uzi, various Ingram weapons, TMP (assuming it's supposed to be a knock-off of the Steyr TMP), Model 100, Urban Combat (which is undetectable to metal detectors), MAC-10 and Teracotta Arms Mordred.

(I just noticed that the Ingram Smartgun comes with a gas-vent 2 and a sound suppressor, even though those are incompatible. Is there a selector switch to decide which one is working or something?)

I'm not advocating the sawed-off SMG route, because I think it's pretty cheesy, but at least it gives you a reason to actually use an SMG for something. As the rules are written, they don't really serve a purpose: they aren't any easier to supress or lower recoil than assault rifles.

[Tsuzua]

Heck, if you're going to go with the "shortened SMG" route, there's tons of options there. The FN P-93 is probably the best choice statistically, being an SA/BF/FA weapon with 50 rounds and a point of inherent recoil comp, if one can overlook the question of how the heck the barrel could get any shorter when it already barely extends past the grip. Or if you want a more pistol-like weapon, there lots of weapons in the "SMG" category that should arguably be considered machine pistols, like the Uzi, various Ingram weapons, TMP (assuming it's supposed to be a knock-off of the Steyr TMP), Model 100, Urban Combat (which is undetectable to metal detectors), MAC-10 and Teracotta Arms Mordred.

(I just noticed that the Ingram Smartgun comes with a gas-vent 2 and a sound suppressor, even though those are incompatible. Is there a selector switch to decide which one is working or something?)

I'm not advocating the sawed-off SMG route, because I think it's pretty cheesy, but at least it gives you a reason to actually use an SMG for something. As the rules are written, they don't really serve a purpose: they aren't any easier to supress or lower recoil than assault rifles.

If you have gas-vent and a suppressor installed on a weapon, you have to decide which you want "on" any given time but it's cool otherwise (Arsenal 152).  There's also restricted on what you can mod/accesorize onto what.  The lack of being able to put gas vents on shotguns for example is one of the things that keeps BF shotguns so sad.

As for SMGs, they're actually quite useful.  If you're not using the Using Two Handed Firearms rules such is the case in Missions, they're the largest firearm you can one-hand.  That's pretty important for cyberarm of awesome users.  The Ingram Supermach is one of the best SnS sprayers due to its large clip size.  You likely don't need to keep up 5 phases of fire, but it isn't like you're really paying anything for the option due to SnS's base DV agnosticism.  You can combo that with a concealable SMG and even use the same specialization bonus for nearly all of your shots.

[TheNarrator]

If you have gas-vent and a suppressor installed on a weapon, you have to decide which you want "on" any given time but it's cool otherwise (Arsenal 152).

I was aware that was the case if you customized a weapon to have both, but I hadn't realized that there were any guns that came with both standard. It sort of makes me lean toward the Ingram Smartgun being the best SMG to mod into a sidearm, as you can get either RC 2 or supression without ruining the concealability by attaching something to the barrel.

(Unless the Ingram's description actually means that it comes with both accessories so you can mount whichever one you prefer. The descriptions are sometimes a bit vague on what standard accessories are actually integral and which aren't integral but come packaged with the gun.)

[Tsuzua]

I was aware that was the case if you customized a weapon to have both, but I hadn't realized that there were any guns that came with both standard. It sort of makes me lean toward the Ingram Smartgun being the best SMG to mod into a sidearm, as you can get either RC 2 or supression without ruining the concealability by attaching something to the barrel.

(Unless the Ingram's description actually means that it comes with both accessories so you can mount whichever one you prefer. The descriptions are sometimes a bit vague on what standard accessories are actually integral and which aren't integral but come packaged with the gun.)

If a weapon is listed with upgrades, then it has it as a modification that takes up no slots (Arsenal 148) so the Ingram Smartgun has both Gas Vent 2 and Sound Suppressor as modifications.  By the way, is there any barrel accessories reduce concealability rules in SR4A especially for stuff like gas vents and silencers?  They used to exist back in older editions, but the concealability rules have been greatly slimmed down from that era. 

[TheNarrator]

Huh. I just went looking and I didn't see anything. I guess they didn't survive the move to 4th Edition.

Considering that a suppressor can almost double the length of a pistol or machine pistol, they really should hurt your concealability, but I guess they wanted to keep things simple. If you and your GM don't have a problem with it, then I guess you can mount whatever barrel accessories you want on a concealed weapon. (Although gas-vents are Restricted and silencers/suppressors are Forbidden, so carrying them may cause legal problems.)

[welldressedgent]

The best shortened SMG may be one that shares a manufacturer with your assault rifle, so you can specialize in that brand.

Medicineman and others: is the Ultimax 70 competitive with the FN57c? Fabrique Nationale is an established manufacturer compared to this Ultimax company.

Umaro and other BP MP9 fans: does putting recoil reduction in parentheses { 1(2) } imply the foregrip folds down, as in the Ruger on the previous page? If so, the MP9 becomes pretty good.

-g

[TheNarrator]

...is the Ultimax 70 competitive with the FN57?

I saw a few Ultimax guns in the various books, but none had the number 70 and none were smaller than an assault rifle. Can you tell me which book it's in?

...does putting recoil reduction in parentheses { 1(2) } imply the foregrip folds down, as in the Ruger on the previous page? If so, the MP9 becomes pretty good.

The parentheses mean that the recoil reduction is conditional for whatever reason. Lots of weapons with shock pads and stocks (even fixed stocks) have the extra 1 RC in parentheses because benefiting from it is conditional on the weapon being held properly (it wouldn't apply if the weapon were mounted in an automated turret, for instance). In the case of the MP9, the second point of recoil comp is conditional on actually using your other hand to grip the foregrip, but there's no mention of the foregrip being able to fold up, and it doesn't look like a folding foregrip (like the MP-7 has, as well as that Ruger you mentioned) in the picture. So I suspect that it's fixed.

If you want the same benefit as a foregrip without needing to use two hands, you can always add an underbarrel weight.

[UmaroVI]

I'm not a big fan of the foregrip; it adds +1 concealability, so it's generally best cut off as soon as possible.

One good setup for the B&P:
Remove Foregrip
Add Auto-Adjusting Weight [4 slots]
Add Gas-Vent 3 [Barrel]
Add Personalized Grip [1 slot]
Add a Stock Accessory [no slot used]
That gets you just enough recoil compensation to fire long/short with no penalties (1 inherent, 2 auto-adjusting weight, 3 gas vent, 1 personalized grip, 1 stock).

Alternatively, if you have a cyberarm gyromount, you can lose the Auto-Adjusting Weight and instead get it with Chameleon Coating, have 9 RC, and have a net -2 concealability.

[CanRay]

The one in your hand when the drek hits the fan.

[Xzylvador]

Having it in your hand -instead of concealed beneath your clothing- could be the entire reason drek hit the fan.
If you're not going to bother concealing it, there's a lot better guns to be using.

[TheNarrator]

I'm not a big fan of the foregrip; it adds +1 concealability...

Which enters into the realm of hilarity when you notice that it's about the only thing that does. Add a barrel accessory that nearly doubles the length of the weapon's barrel? No change to concealability. Add a rigid stock that's as long as the whole rest of the weapon? No change to concealability. Add a little handle in the front? Penalty!



Whatever set up you wind up going with, don't forget to save a slot for the smartgun system. Most of the weapons we've been discussing don't come with it standard. For that matter, you'll probably want another slot for Skinlink. Nobody likes having their gun hacked.