[Critias]

Look, this is a severe case of realism vs. balance. IF a important character is hit with this, MAKE THEM USE  ing EDGE.
Also, this ammo cannot be silenced, and quite honestly, any time it gets through ANY serious armor, if you used normal bullets they'd have insta-died.

What?  No, it's not a case of realism vs. balance.  Where does such ammunition exist in the real world?  What's realistic about it?  Find me a round this explosive that is still an ammunition type (IE, can be loaded into a Hold Out, a Light Pistol, etc), instead of simply being the custom ammo of a high-caliber weapon (like 20mm explosive rounds).  What does this ammunition do "realistically" that existing explosive ammo, or EX, does not?

It's a case of the ammunition being unrealistic and imbalancing.  Why would anyone ever, shoot any other lethal ammo (especially since these "realistic" rounds have the same availability of EX and only cost double what flechette rounds do)?

[All4BigGuns]

I'm normally very hesitant to use the term 'broken', as I think it is bandied about far too much (in most cases referring to things that really aren't), but in this case, I have to agree that these pieces of gear are horribly so. There is no need for things like this, and crying 'realism' on it (though I'm in doubt as to whether these would be) simply does not excuse the ridiculousness of them.

[Inconnu]

Ok, well first, now it needs to be custom made, and availibility is how easy it is to get it, and what the law does if it finds it. A garrote is "only" 0F.
Also, on a glitch your gun becomes a frag grenade...
You don't WANT to know what happens on a CRIT glitch...

[Inconnu]

Also, there is the "minor" fact that explosive rounds only do +1, which is HORRIBLY unbalanced.

[All4BigGuns]

Also, there is the "minor" fact that explosive rounds only do +1, which is HORRIBLY unbalanced.

You consider +1 DV unbalanced, but you don't think these ridiculous rounds and daggers are borked all to hell? 

[Critias]

Ok, well first, now it needs to be custom made, and availibility is how easy it is to get it, and what the law does if it finds it. A garrote is "only" 0F.
Also, on a glitch your gun becomes a frag grenade...
You don't WANT to know what happens on a CRIT glitch...

You can keep on backpedaling and trying to think of minor inconveniences to keep throwing in the way (now it has to be custom made, now it does different stuff on a glitch, now the law really cracks down on you about it, and on and on and on), or you can just accept that these things are overpowered.

I mean, everyone who has been bothered to reply to you is saying "Hey, yeah, these things are overpowered," and instead of seeming to listen, at all, you just keep making excuses.

Also, there is the "minor" fact that explosive rounds only do +1, which is HORRIBLY unbalanced.

What?  I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, or why you're using quotation marks there, or what's even going on.

[Crash_00]

Explosive rounds shatter.
Ex-Explosive rounds penetrate and shatter.

How are these different, description wise, from EX-Explosive when they just penetrate and shatter but do ridiculously more damage. Screw calling them Gorey rounds or Chunky Salsa rounds, these are flat out nuke rounds that cause miniature mushroom clouds to rise from the ashes of your corpse. Might as well add Lethal Radiation Poisoning to their list of effects for the odd troll that may survive the opening burst from them.

Shadowrun doesn't have a  damage system designed for realistic damage simulation. It can be lethal (although the current edition is the least lethal of the bunch), it can be gritty, but it isn't in any way realistic. Trying to force it to be realistic is like trying to force a walrus into a tutu. Completely unnecessary. You can find other, more willing things to put a tutu on (translation: there are systems for realistic damage, I suggest Deadlands which isn't too hard to port over to SR if you really want).

What?  I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, or why you're using quotation marks there, or what's even going on.

I think he was aiming for sarcasm which is hard to do in text. He thinks explosive rounds should do more I believe.

[Inconnu]

Correct.

i mean, there is the "minor" fact that one or two of the shattered fragments may travel trough your bloodstream, which alone is worth onother point of dv....

[Critias]

I don't think quotation marks mean what you think quotation marks mean.  It's making it very difficult to make sense of you, or what you're trying to say, or -- quotation marks aside -- what your point was in posting this thread (since you clearly don't seem interested in listening to what people have to say about your gear ideas).

[Xzylvador]

This thread reeks of troll.


More on topic: Horrendously overpowered, ridiculous concept. Unbalanced, unrealistic and quite simply unfun. (Yes, I made up the word.)

[Mirikon]

Yeah, I'm done with this. Let's see how well the Ignore List works.

[Ajax]

You know how explosive rounds just shatter? Now i have a idea for a bullet that goes boom.

In point of fact, I know all about bullets that shatter and shells that go boom. I left the service a while ago, but I was a Gunner's Mate 2nd Class in the United States Coast Guard. Oh sure, I didn't get to play with the really big toys that the Navy gets or the Army has, but I know my way around smallarms well enough. Here in the real world, we don't have bullets that explode, anything big enough to contain explosives is going to be an artillery shell. I won't bore you with such pesky things like physics but if you want a tiny object like a bullet to penetrate something as dense as a human body, it needs a given degree of force. That means density and speed. That means no hollow for explosives

I've also bee playing Shadowrun for twenty-odd years, so I know its a science-fiction game, and I know how to read the book. "Explosive rounds are solid slugs designed to fragment and explode on impact." (SR4A, p.323; emphasis added.) I have no clue how that works, but its a scifi universe with flying cars, colonies on Mars, and supercomputers I can install in my eyeballs.

If you want ammunition that is more than "rounds just shatter," it is right there for you on p.323: Garden varetiy Explosive Rounds, which fragment and explode or their bigger, badder cousins the EX Explosive Rounds which do the same thing, only moreso.

The concept behind your super-bullet has already been addressed by the existing Explosive Rounds. The special rules for your super-bullet are just gross overkill, ignore most principals of SR's game design, and... To be blunt, your attitude in the face of criticism sucks.

If you think your super-bullet has a place in the game, fine, use `em. I beleive that anythign that lets a GM and his players have fun is kosher... But I don't want your super-bullets at my table. To be blunt, again, based on your attitude I don't think I want you at my table. Enjoy the game, have fun, but please... learn how to respond to criticism before you make another post looking for feedback.

Edit: Fixed an unclosed tag.

[CitizenJoe]

Isn't this just an airtimed microgrenade? 

[Tsuzua]

That's it. I'm sick of all this "EX Bullets only being +1 DV" bullshit that's going on in the SR4A system right now. EX Bullets deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine EX bullet in Detroit for 2,400,000 nuyen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even explode slabs of solid steel with my Ex Bullet.
Automatic bullet presses spend years working on a single bullet and robots fill it with best explosives known to mankind.
EX Bullets are thrice as powerful as normal bullets and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a normal bullet can pierce, a EX Bullet can pierce through better. I'm pretty sure a Ex Bullet could easily bisect a Juggernaut though hydrostatic shock alone.

Ever wonder why Lofwyr never bothered conquering UCAS? That's right, he was too scared to fight the disciplined Ares Firewatch teams and their EX Bullets of destruction. Even in shutdown of the Universal Brotherhood, corporate soldiers targeted the insect spirits with the EX Bullets first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? EX Bullets are simply the best bullets that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the SR4A system. Here is the stat block I propose for EX Bullets:

Cost-200/10
Damage- -2/2p
Ap+1
Special- Uses Chunky Salsa. If armor is pierced, deal 10p with -20 ap(The bullet is hitting you from INSIDE... Armor won't do jack shit) IF armor is not pierced, dgrade armor anyway and deal 2p with 1/2 -4 I armor.
Availibility- 12F

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of EX Bullets in the fluff, don't you think?

tl;dr = EX Bullets need to do more damage in SR4A, see my new stat block.

[CitizenJoe]

I fired EX rounds once and Chuck Norris ran away!