[Kincaid]

I have literally never seen someone refuse to get Wired Reflexes and Reflex Boosters together because of the SCAAAAARY WIRELESS bonuses.  Indeed, the only time I've seen someone only take WR was my own decker, because I was crunched for cash and just wanted to ensure a second IP.  Nor have I frankly seen anyone freak out in game over those oh so terrifying enemy deckers.  As far as I can tell it's purely a forums phenomenon.

There are other forums out there full of folks who have never played 5e but can tell you, at great length, the terrible impact of wireless bonuses and limits.    5e is powerful stuff indeed.

[ZeConster]

I find this laughable coming from you, Wells. If you want respect or courtesy, try showing some to others for a change.

Uhm...you realize you didn't quote me, right?

That's okay, Wells - I think he got stuck on the 'W' and had maybe just read your post or something.

My bad, thought it was a post by Wells - don't know you well enough to say the same thing to you that I would to him for a post like that. Post removed.

[gmoney999]

My bad, thats what I meant, used muscle replacement 3.  Its 3.5 essence, but you can fit it in fine.

Used is times 1.25 essence. MR 3 would be 3.75.

You can still cram it all in easily though if one of them isn't used:
-Used MR 3 (3.75 essence, 56.25k)
-Used RE 3 (1.125, 29.25k)
-Aluminum Bone Lacing (1, 18,000)
Total (5.875, 103.5)

Still got 36.5k to play with too.

Yeah, thats the exact build that I was talking about.  I really should go back and look at the character sheet instead of writing about things from memory.

Anyways, as far as resources C, it seems that particularly with Run and Gun out there are lots more interesting reasons to go resources C.  In addition to the various troll builds discussed above (which really benefit from martial arts and +armor), resources C seems like the way to go if you want to make a bioware adept (which again is better with martial arts).  Also you can make some really cool elf sniper/face/infiltrator/driver characters if you go skills A, Attributes B, Resources C.  You have enough to pick up Used Muscle toner 3, WR 1, and Used Reaction Enhancers 3.  Or you can switch out Muscle toner for used Tailored Pheromones 3.  Interesting options both with cash to spare. 

[JimmyCrisis]

Wyrm, you most certainly are being rude.  What do you think condescension is?  Oh, how dare I post on the forums for a game I've been playing for fifteen years?  Who is this guy, anyway?

I don't read Wells posts because he, like you, he likes to be condescending and hyperbolic.  I guarantee that if we had this discussion in person neither of you two have the balls to look me in the eye after you treat me this way.  I don't back down from bullies, and that's just what you are doing.  Bullying me because I won't submit and stroke your egos.

Your argument is simply a discounting of my opinion.  In my actual experience, I have not needed more than 7 edge in any run.  For one, Shadowrun is a role playing game, not a videogame.  A combat that takes seven combat turns where all seven of those turns are important enough to spend edge on to go first would take all day to play.  You have only adressed that with hyperbole.  That's why I say you are wrong.  I chose not to go into detail because you were rude as well, and I'm not here to spend my free time chatting with inconsiderate jerks.

If you like to play combat all day, by all means go ahead.  Its an entirely valid way to play the game.  After all there is no wrong way to have fun.  I would not play that character in that game, but that by no means makes that a weak character, simply inappropriate for that game and GM.

[JimmyCrisis]

Having said that, I will not continue this discussion.  If you feel you have anything further to hash out with me, PM me.  We don't need to drag this out in public any longer.

[WellsIDidIt]

Your argument is simply a discounting of my opinion.  In my actual experience, I have not needed more than 7 edge in any run.  For one, Shadowrun is a role playing game, not a videogame.  A combat that takes seven combat turns where all seven of those turns are important enough to spend edge on to go first would take all day to play.  You have only adressed that with hyperbole.  That's why I say you are wrong.  I chose not to go into detail because you were rude as well, and I'm not here to spend my free time chatting with inconsiderate jerks.

Yeah, no. A simple discounting would be more like saying.

You are wrong, that is all. It would probably read more like:

I've read your piece.  You are wrong

Oh wait, that was you, not him.

What he did was explain exactly why your opinion was flawed. How does 7 combat turns manage to take a whole day to play? (wait, aren't I the one that's supposed to hyperbolic with my arguments? All day isn't an exaggeration is it?) I can honestly say that at least half my runs have more combat than seven rounds. I've never spent longer than two hours on combat in a session.

Things not going smooth, insect hives, botched runs turning into the reverse of the raid as runners fight tooth and nail to escape, etc. are not hyperbole. There is no exaggeration there. These are things that happen in Shadowrun. I don't see how someone can play the game for fifteen years and not know about having to dive into the hive in Queen Euphoria, the trials of escaping the Renraku Arcology during the shutdown, or just the typical double-cross that is standard to the setting and puts the players in a positions where the combat isn't "one-sided in their favor." You know, the classics.

Your argument has literally been "I have never needed more than 7 edge in any run", so it shouldn't ever happen. However, you also said "the most combats I've seen in one run amounted to 3" and "they were all very one-sided favoring the runners."

I fail to see how pointing out that when either of those situations fails it puts your argument on its head is an exaggeration, maybe you could elaborate. A combat that would take a prepared group of runners a single round can easily last six to seven if they're unprepared and the attackers are prepared (like when the Yakuza successfully infiltrate the hideout in Mercurial for example).

[JimmyCrisis]

Was that wall of text for me?  I wouldn't know because I didn't read it.

[WellsIDidIt]

And yet your post addressed the points just as well as all your past ones have. Classic avoidance again, because you can't can't counterpoint.

[JimmyCrisis]

Huh?  That's weird, it's like you're still bashing me in public despite the fact that I asked you to move it to private chat.  Odd.

[WellsIDidIt]

That's not a bash, it's a statement of fact. You have not addressed the flaws a single time. Instead, you simply claim they don't exist because the situations for them to exist rely on exaggerations (even though the examples given pretty much come straight out of classic Shadowrun modules, no exaggeration needed). However, it's quite clear that you do still read my posts.

You claimed you wanted to put forth valid ideas for other players. You won't respond to any flaws in your ideas. How does that help other players? How does it help other players if you'll only address them hidden away in private? It doesn't. No one benefits from that. So yes, I will point out that there are blatant flaws to the "balanced choice" you proposed that still have not been addressed when you decide to bow out of the conversation. They'll be there for those new players reading through to see and reflect on when making choices.

Am I going to examine your last post in addition. Yes. For the same reason. So that the player can just as easily discount it for the flaws it holds. Same concept. They can't exactly do that if it's tucked away in private.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Wells, go ahead and drop it.  For all his claims of fair-mindedness and 'take it to private messages', he's clearly and blatantly trolling - or at least he sure as hell is actively avoiding all of the 'short-sightedness' points that have been repeatedly made.  I did go back and I find it interesting that all of the things that he's accusing me of doing are things that either he did first, or he's the only one who did - patronizing (did first), hyperbole (only did), out-and-out rude (only did), attempted bullying (only did), argument being only 'my opinion is different' with no examples (only did) ... so do what I just did - added him to Falconer and shadowjack in my amazingly short list of 'people to totally ignore'.

[Namikaze]

I don't always agree with Wyrm and Wells, but Jimmy - you're being petulant.  I just wanted to throw this out in public so that Wells and Wyrm have a public record of my support for them. 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Hmm - interesting mental exercise.  What If ... Edge and Maximum Edge was reduced by implanted 'ware the same way Magic and Resonance are?  You can be wired, or you can be lucky, but you can't be both ...

[JimmyCrisis]

I don't always agree with Wyrm and Wells, but Jimmy - you're being petulant.  I just wanted to throw this out in public so that Wells and Wyrm have a public record of my support for them. 

Very well, I realize I probably am.  Well, petulant is the wrong word; curt, aggressive, snarky or boorish all work.  I apologize; I wasn't adding anything to the discussion.

[ProfessorCirno]

Hmm - interesting mental exercise.  What If ... Edge and Maximum Edge was reduced by implanted 'ware the same way Magic and Resonance are?  You can be wired, or you can be lucky, but you can't be both ...

Not sure what that'd accomplish other then severely punishing everyone but wizards and adepts for no real reason