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[5e OOC] Tabula Rasa, Chapters II and III

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Malevolence

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« Reply #210 on: <12-01-14/1615:45> »
My IC is updated to reflect that Chino does not (as far as I know) have Light Body. Wall running ends up being slightly cooler IMO anyway.
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Poindexter

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« Reply #211 on: <12-01-14/1615:55> »
My first reaction was "does anyone in the house want to survive the trap going off?" but it turns out 1kg of commercial explosives isn't that strong, per the rules. (According to p.436, it's only 5P, AP -2.)

Yeah, i noticed that as well. Explosives dont really seem that bad-ass anymore. Quite a few in our group throw around more dmg than that with a punch.
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Zweiblumen

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« Reply #212 on: <12-01-14/1621:25> »
I never realized I read that section so poorly, I've been playing by the 4e rules.  Overall I vote for 5e as it's WAY less glitches over all. :) but that's just me being greedy.  As we are using both 4e and 5e rules for various things my vote is for what ever the majority is unless you need a tie breaker, then I'll go 5e.
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Malevolence

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« Reply #213 on: <12-01-14/1626:58> »
I think he can get more damage out of them by focusing the blast in one direction (shaping the charge), but I don't know that that can be applied akin to a claymore or if it only is doable when trying to destroy barriers/structures.


As far as glitch rules, I don't really care either way. I'd vote for the 5e way just for general consistency (we are playing 5e rules predominantly), and its how I've been playing (I think I have at least one roll that would have glitched under 4e but not under 5e that I did not count as a glitch). But I'm good either way going forward.


@zweiblumen: Not greedy - the fewer glitches thing goes both ways - our opponents will benefit from it as well. And overall, they are probably rolling lower dice pools in general, so it actually favors them more.
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8-bit

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« Reply #214 on: <12-01-14/1631:14> »
I think he can tamp the charge, which gives it 4 times the DV? I'm away from my books right now, so I can't check it.

As far as glitch rules, all my other games use the SR5 rules. It doesn't matter either way to me, but using SR5 rules is probably more consistent.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #215 on: <12-01-14/1725:17> »
Sounds like we'll use 5E rules for glitching then. No glitch for Sam on the demolitions roll, so the traps are set. Now, does Ace still want to add beer bottles to the commercial explosives...

A "simple charge" (less than 5kg) may not be tamped, per Run & Gun (p. 178). Even if it could be tamped, the wisdom of triggering a 20P explosion in the house is debatable.

Poindexter

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« Reply #216 on: <12-01-14/1731:12> »
yeah, i dont know if id do 20 if i could. But 5 seems like a waste of time, resources, and effort. Yeah, it will let us know we're being intruded on, but so will the beer bottles, and we can't use beer bottles to breach a wall later on if we need to.

ARG! I'm torn.
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Ryo

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« Reply #217 on: <12-01-14/1823:38> »
Whoops, looks like I wasn't clear on the explosives Sam had.

Quote
can(1 kg) of foam explosive
several types of detonators
a few sticks of dynamite
a home made bomb
some det cord.

The can of foam explosive is Rating 18.

The 'several types of detonators' was 2 of each type listed in Run and Gun, all of highest rating (so 6 for Optical, 3 for Radio and Timer).

There are 4 sticks of dynamite, each one the equivalent to 1 kilogram of commercial explosives.

There is 20 meters of High Yield detonating cord wound up like rope.

I'll PM the specs of the home made bomb to Tecumseh. The GM decides what Sam can tell by looking at it.

Malevolence

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« Reply #218 on: <12-01-14/1838:08> »
Even if it could be tamped, the wisdom of triggering a 20P explosion in the house is debatable.
Well, at the doors and directed outwards, this wouldn't be a problem. But, the requiring of 5kg to do is the deal killer.  :(
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rednblack

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« Reply #219 on: <12-01-14/2026:36> »
Sorry I've been a little absent. Computer issues are bringing Me to a dead stand still at the day job.

Re: explosives, I think Sam should wire the front and back door. Garage door is not likely to be the main briefing point and I'm not sure how we'd wire the windows. If there's any fishing line in the house Ace can use the beer bottle trick on the windows with about 5M of line per window, assuming standard picture window sizes. I don't see the point of using both beer bottles and explosives on any given exit.

As for shaping the charge, if aluminum cans are still a thing, those and some tape -- ok, a lot of tape -- could probably shape the charge enough for our purposes. Ace probably doesn't know this, but I bet Sam would.
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8-bit

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« Reply #220 on: <12-01-14/2213:16> »
I'm a little more concerned about accidentally blowing up a concerned neighbor, or if the owner returns, the owner. Sure, we don't really care about the house, and if another strike team comes, explosions will be very useful. I just figure if an explosion goes off, our cover may be kinda blown (well, I could say no pun intended, but it works ...). Then again, if we don't have the explosions, then if it is a strike team, we lose a good line of defense.

I don't know, I say it's better to be safe than dead, so setting up the explosives is probably good.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #221 on: <12-01-14/2226:03> »
rednblack, thank you for checking in. The action is off Ace for the moment so no need to worry. The update is appreciated though. Good luck with the computer issues.

Notes
- There is a lot of fishing line in the garage.
- There is plenty of tape too.
- Aluminum cans exist in the future. The original SR4 core book (not the anniversary edition) featured a fiction piece where a runner team was hired to poison a batch of BUZZ!BLITZ - "CHUG THE BOMB!" - a high octane beverage marketed to trolls. The accompanying art (p. 5, SR4) features a stay-tab aluminum can.

If it came up for discussion, Katsina would vote for a quieter option for the traps, one that doesn't automatically alert the neighbors and trigger emergency calls. She would back Ace's plan. Or does she back that plan because it is Ace's? Hmm.

Poindexter

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« Reply #222 on: <12-01-14/2320:32> »
OK, i gotta admit, I'm rather stymied by all of this explosives stuff. I feel sorta like when you play someone elses game of minecraft and you get the basics of the game, but you don't know what all their mods do, y'know? If there's anyone in the group that gets this stuff and wouldnt mind giving me a crash course in explosives 101,  or a link to a quick and easy guide of the basics, that would be AWESOME. i don't wanna hold the game up over this any more than i feel like i already have been.
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Zweiblumen

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« Reply #223 on: <12-02-14/0034:41> »
I'm holding things up as well, so don't worry so much about it :)  Overall I think we've got a pretty good pace going, especially with the holidays.
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Ryo

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« Reply #224 on: <12-02-14/0115:08> »
OK, i gotta admit, I'm rather stymied by all of this explosives stuff. I feel sorta like when you play someone elses game of minecraft and you get the basics of the game, but you don't know what all their mods do, y'know? If there's anyone in the group that gets this stuff and wouldnt mind giving me a crash course in explosives 101,  or a link to a quick and easy guide of the basics, that would be AWESOME. i don't wanna hold the game up over this any more than i feel like i already have been.

Keeping it simple, explosives boils down to two things that matter: Rating and Kilograms. The final DV of your boom is determined by the Rating multiplied by the square root of the kilograms used. For simplicity, never bother with a number of kilograms that does not have a whole number as the square root. Here's a handy table.

KilogramsMultiplier
1
1
4
2
9
3
16
4
25
5

Etc.

There are two tests when building a bomb. The first is to shape the explosive and make it better at booming, increasing the effective rating. This is optional, and is the test described in the core book. You roll Logic + Demolitions, and add your hits to the rating of the bomb when determining DV.

The second test is the actual construction of the bomb. Since this is the Simple version of building a bomb, the time is entirely dependent on how many kilos you plan to use. (There are other factors, like number of charges/detonators, but you don't need to worry about that.)

Simple: 5 kilograms or less. Demolitions + Logic [Mental] (6, 10 minutes) Extended Test.
Average: 6-10 kilograms. Demolitions + Logic [Mental] (12, 1 hour) Extended Test.
Complex: 11 kilograms or more. Demolitions + Logic [Mental] (18, 1 day) Extended Test.

So you decide you want to build a 4 kilogram bomb out of the 4 sticks of dynamite you have.

Step 1: Logic + Demolitions [Mental] Simple test. You get 2 hits, so your Dynamite sticks now count as rating 7. (5 + 2 hits).

Step 2: Build the bomb. It's less than 5 kilograms, so this is a Demolitions + Logic [Mental] (6, 10 minutes) Extended Test. You easily combine your dynamite with detonators in about 30 minutes.

4 kilograms is a x2 modifier, so your bomb is 14P, AP -2, with a Blast of -2 per meter.

You get a bonus if you attach it directly to a structure. This both doubles the DV and halves the armor value of the barrier. In this situation, your bomb is 28P AP -half, Blast -2 per meter. This bonus only applies to the Structure. Anything else caught in the blast takes the base damage. The shrapnel created by destroying the Structure is a different matter.

And that's all you really need to know for the basic level of bomb making. You can get more complicated by involving the different detonators, tamping, multiple charges, Homemade explosives, including Anti-Removal modifications, breaching vs. cutting charges, using explosives purely to create secondary sharpnel blasts, abusing enclosed spaces to achieve chunky salsa, and so on, but you can work your way up to all that.

And I imagine Tecumseh would include a third test for setting up a fancy booby trap using the bomb you just built, like the one mentioned with Grenades. That gets into Build/Repair territory, where the only limits are your imagination and the leniency of the GM.