Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: Adrick on <09-03-10/1702:26>
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What the word on runners toolkit?
Really looking forward to Gear packages for character creation
Have some players interested but they were scared of by all the gear selections combined with there lack of knowledge of the setting.
So we are doing other games until the tool kit comes out, as i want there first experience with my favorite setting to be a smooth one.
(and i'm to lazy to do it myself ;) )
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I'm working hard on the Toolkit! Can't promise a date, because management makes me eat snakes if I do, but it's a high priority!
Jason H.
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So, what exactly IS the toolkit?
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PACKs and some other fun stuff to make character creation somewhat easier. Plus like tools, and stuff...
I'll let other people talk about it now...
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So, what exactly IS the toolkit?
It will have the following:
* A new GM screen;
* Some heavy cardstock cheat sheets providing the steps for common processes such as melee combat, spellcasting, conjuring, etc.;
* Full-color, heavy-cardstock maps for some basic sprawl sites;
* The Big Book of Tables--a compiled listing of the gear tables from every core book;
* CASS--Contacts, Adventure seeds, and Sprawl Sites: A booklet the provides the items mentioned in its title;
* A revised version of On the Run;
* PACKS--Pre-generated Auxiliary Character Kit System. A booklet containing attribute, skills, gear, etc. kits that allow for quick combination for easy creation of PCs and NPCs.
* Anatomy of a Shadowrun: a booklet that provides a fictional account of a run in one column, and the game information, such as tests used, that shows how to play out that story.
All in a lovely box!
Jason H.
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I love boxed sets. :)
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Mmm, boxes.
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Oh my... so it's exactly what I'm looking for now that I'm trying to get a new SR group together here in the DC area...
...this pleases monkey.
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Drek, I'd be happy with just the GM screen. Everything else is gravy.
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This may be a foolish question, but will there be a pdf version?
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Ohhhh... I've picked these up for a few games even tho' I rarely GM.
Sounds just like what I need now.
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Does it replace a lot of the stuff that some of us have in the 4th ED GM screen? It seems like it tries to revise and re-publish Sprawl Sites, NAGTRL and the contacts and friends sections in older edition Runners' Companions.
It sounds interesting.
Don
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Wow that toolkit sounds amazing. That will be something I snag for sure.
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Aaaaaaaaaaand I just put my final touches on one piece of this today! Closer and closer!
Jason H.
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Want!
Want now!
Dammit, must wait.
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* The Big Book of Tables--a compiled listing of the gear tables from every core book;
Jason H.
A dream come true! It has taken our indecisive group around 7 hours to make characters while passing around books :P Tables would help a lot!
Anyone know if there's a table of all personality traits somewhere? would be awesome.
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Been waiting for this for a while, and am looking forward to it.
And love the new forums. Congrats!
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So question I read this will have packs is this the same kinda thing as Bobbie's packs?
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The concept is a bit different. Basically, it will have Attribute kits, skill kits, spell kits, program kits, gear kits, etc. You would choose an Attributes kit, one or more Skills kits, and so on down the line to make a character. Each kit has the BP required for that kit listed.
Jason H.
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Sounds Interesting.
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IT MUST BE MINE!!
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IT MUST BE MINE!!
Okay. I just sent a program that limits Gun_Nut's soykaf machine to three cups a day. He should be fine in a few hours or so...
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Yes, but my cups are all 750 mL in volume, so not a lot of reduction.
Still...that IS down from 6 cups a day.
And I use real coffee. Allergic to soy (in game, not IRL).
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Ouch, that has to be a pretty hefty lifestyle cost bump =/
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Man, I bet you're a real party at the Stuffer Shack... ;)
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Haven't done Food Fight with this character, but the results would be...interesting.
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EH I live in whats called High lifestyle I have real coffee if I ever wanted it.
My place is nice and I think it's a good price for the space.
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Yes, but my cups are all 750 mL in volume, so not a lot of reduction.
Still...that IS down from 6 cups a day.
And I use real coffee. Allergic to soy (in game, not IRL).
Being allergic to soy is a little like being allergic to water in shadowrun.... except you don't take a shower of hot burning soykaf every morning XD
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This may be a foolish question, but will there be a pdf version?
I'm short on .pdf boxes, it would be nice to get another.
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This may be a foolish question, but will there be a pdf version?
I'm short on .pdf boxes, it would be nice to get another.
ROTFLOL
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I could cram all my .pdfs in there. Handy for keeping things organized.
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Oh hai! I got one of them PDF boxes!
It's called my external hard drive...
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oooo snap! they don't call him fast for nothin, that wit is purdy quick lol
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I just hope he plans to actually use the items they sound great!
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OooH OoooH. I want another box set!!!!! My DMZ and Denver boxes would really like a new freind!
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I *do* need a new box to put stuff in. The 'ol Grey Box (Forgotten Realms) and BT Intro Set are getting a little worn...
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I own every SR4 book there is. A box doesn't cut it anymore, I need a transportable LOCKER.
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<Glances at bookshelves with every edition of Shadowrun ever made and the supplements>
You have no idea...
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I did own almost every book ever published for SR2, too. I mostly skipped SR3 and sold most of my SR2 stock, though.
And my bookshelf is filled with RPG books. Most of them are Shadowrun, but I collect other stuff, too.
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I'm happy to say that, while I do collect games (any and all), I try to play each and every one of them. There are only a handful that I haven't played yet, and I'm still trying to find players that might be interested in them.
Yes, I've even played Teenagers from Outer Space. Crazy game.
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I'm happy to say that, while I do collect games (any and all), I try to play each and every one of them. There are only a handful that I haven't played yet, and I'm still trying to find players that might be interested in them.
Yes, I've even played Teenagers from Outer Space. Crazy game.
Ever play Chosen? I have a rather, err, extensive collection of rpgs, and I think that one takes my booby prize for worst game.
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You seen FATAL? I've only read about that nightmare of a game.
It requires one to roll up statistics for everything, including attributes for sexual organs.
I kid you not. I can't make up something that insane.
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Heh, Chosen is kind of the opposite - the rules system is basically "The GM makes up some numbers", only dumber.
FATAL, eh? Time to go digging.
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You seen FATAL? I've only read about that nightmare of a game.
It requires one to roll up statistics for everything, including attributes for sexual organs.
I kid you not. I can't make up something that insane.
I'm truly at a loss for words.
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You seen FATAL? I've only read about that nightmare of a game.
It requires one to roll up statistics for everything, including attributes for sexual organs.
I kid you not. I can't make up something that insane.
I'm truly at a loss for words.
"OK, genital size roll... oh man, critical miss. Tough luck, dude- might want to use an edge point."
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"OK, genital size roll... oh man, critical miss. Tough luck, dude- might want to use an edge point."
I am still at a loss for words, but now because I am laughing to hard ;D I am SO going to look up that game...
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So, just finished a brief read-through of FATAL... I can't even imagine the thought process that would lead to thinking this was a good idea to make. I mean, I would make fun of the more ridiculous stuff in there, but I would probably get booted off the forums.
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So, just finished a brief read-through of FATAL... I can't even imagine the thought process that would lead to thinking this was a good idea to make. I mean, I would make fun of the more ridiculous stuff in there, but I would probably get booted off the forums.
That seems unlikely, as long as you stay within the realm of the site rules.
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So, just finished a brief read-through of FATAL... I can't even imagine the thought process that would lead to thinking this was a good idea to make. I mean, I would make fun of the more ridiculous stuff in there, but I would probably get booted off the forums.
That seems unlikely, as long as you stay within the realm of the site rules.
The game has rules on PENIS size rolls. I dont think the rules of ANY site could take what else that game has in store...
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Ok, in the spirit of education then, FATAL has rules for:
edit: Redacted, because it's mind scarring
It's almost worth a read through just for the sheer WTH? factor.
Almost.
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Ok, in the spirit of education then, FATAL has rules for:
<snipped for decency>
They don't make bleach strong enough to clean that post from my memory. :'(
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Here, I'll share some of my battery-acid. Worth a try. Or, in other words...
JESUS CHRISTUS, WAS ZUR HÖLLE???? *ahem* Sorry.
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Hmmm. Yeah. I've been known to be wrong before. Let's not go into further detail on it here then.
Wow...
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Yeah, I wasn't planning on it :p
In fact, now that the other participants in the conversation have seen it, I'm going to take it down.
And then cry that there's not enough brain bleach in the world to scrub out what I have seen...
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Now I know how the bad rep P&P has in some circles came to pass... those people got their hands on a copy of FATAL...
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Looks like I'm finding FATAL and running it for the guys next week!!! ::)
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Yeah, I wasn't planning on it :p
In fact, now that the other participants in the conversation have seen it, I'm going to take it down.
And then cry that there's not enough brain bleach in the world to scrub out what I have seen...
What has been seen cannot be UNSEEEEEEEN!!! :'(
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I own every SR4 book there is. A box doesn't cut it anymore, I need a transportable LOCKER.
BAH there arn't that many SR4 books ......Says the guy who has most of the books from 1st edtion on.
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Where can I find info on this FATAL game? I must know?
(I'm fascinated by the bizarre and insane.)
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Ok I think i'm glad I was sleeping.............
And to talk size try haveing every book for Rifts/Palladium Fantasy (yes I knew someone who did)
As for collections well there is the 2 bookcases of Star Trek I have the collection is pretty complete as far as novels go I just need some of the young adult ones and I should have them all. (untill news ones come out)
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Where can I find info on this FATAL game? I must know?
(I'm fascinated by the bizarre and insane.)
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=FATAL+RPG ;D
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Refuses to click the link!!
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Coward :P
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NO SMART ;D :P
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The brief bits I read of the game made me alternately laugh then cry. Sometimes I did both at the same time, and then crawled into a corner with my blankie to gibber a bit.
While every little detail is expressed within the game, those details are so mundane and banal that it becomes Not Fun (tm). And the setting is made super dreary, so why would anyone want to even attempt to play that game? Masochism is the only answer I can come up with.
The Morrow Project was a game that had lots of detail, but the setting was waaay more interesting. Combat was...a bit too detailed (hit locations included individual digits on the hand and specific rib numbers) but it was appropriately lethal and...well, I can't think of anything else to say.
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I do: STAY AWAY! If you are bored on a rainy afternoon, play with the Necronomicon. Thats less painful.
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I deny you! I cast you out! Do not invoke the Game That Shall NOT Be Named!!
(really, any discusion of THAT game should be shut down as soon as possible. You talk about it too much and a copy shows up on your hard-drive and refuses to be deleted.)
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The Hybrid review had me laughing and crying so hard I had to stop and wipe my eyes so I could finish reading.
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The Hybrid review had me laughing and crying so hard I had to stop and wipe my eyes so I could finish reading.
Well, link to it so others can enlighten their dreary Fridays. 8)
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I don't think FATAL holds a candle to The World of Synnibarr. Wow, that was some horrid shit that made for some hilarious reviews.
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The Unholy Trinity (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Worst_RPGs_ever)
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Fastjack beat me to links...I need to try his brand of coffee. ;D
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Critias has been complaining that I've slowed down in my old age... Gotta show him I've still got it! 8)
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Hence the old Greek proverb: "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
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Hence the old Greek proverb: "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
I watched the Vikings/Saints game last night. Myth busted. ;D
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Was treachery used? I doubt anyone was kicked out of the game for randomly crippling another player. And his dog.
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Was treachery used? I doubt anyone was kicked out of the game for randomly crippling another player. And his dog.
I saw no treachery on part of the Vikings or Saints.
The Saints fans, however, probably all went to work with laryngitis this morning from keeping it so loud when Favre was on the field, he had to rely on stomping his foot as a visual cue to the Center to hike the ball.
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So, basically, saying that this game should be burned is an insult to fire.
That one made me laugh hysterically, and it was pretty much all i needed from that review.
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I watched the Vikings/Saints game last night. Myth busted. ;D
What did Jamie and Adam have to do with it?? However, Kari in a cheerleader outfit. I'm hip.
However, sense we diverged a bit into football...After this last sunday, I get to say something I never thought I would ever get to say again: Ahem...
LIONS WIN, BABY! BOO-YA!!!!!!!
Now, back to our regularly scheduled insanaity, already in progress....
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hey uh, maybe trying to get back on the orriginal subject, ;D any word JM on when it might be ready?
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Yes quite. I can't hold my breath much longer - I'm turning blue! WTB Runners Toolkit!
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Sounds like an interesting product. :o
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I really didn't grok how 'noob-unfriendly' the SR4 character creation system was until I had to guide my wife through it. She's a fairly casual gamer but has played games like Ars Magica and GURPS in the past. She was new not only to the 4th edition chargen system but to the Shadowrun setting as a whole. She was having a very difficult time wrestling the chargen system to fulfill her character concept, a Face/Infiltration expert, and needed a great deal of my help to build an effective character. I've heard this problem referred to as "system mastery", i.e. that it takes experience and skill with a system to make an effective character in that system. I feel like SR4 suffers from a fairly serious case of system mastery. Anything that will help players unfamiliar with SR rules and setting make an effective character that fulfills their concept will be a boon.
Also, I'm sick of using my substantially annotated GM screen.
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I'll admit, even coming from a long 1-3e background the 4e chargen took a couple readthroughs to really grok.
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I really want this product, the new GM screen alone could make it worth the purchase. I hope it turns out great.
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I really didn't grok how 'noob-unfriendly' the SR4 character creation system was until I had to guide my wife through it. She's a fairly casual gamer but has played games like Ars Magica and GURPS in the past. She was new not only to the 4th edition chargen system but to the Shadowrun setting as a whole. She was having a very difficult time wrestling the chargen system to fulfill her character concept, a Face/Infiltration expert, and needed a great deal of my help to build an effective character. I've heard this problem referred to as "system mastery", i.e. that it takes experience and skill with a system to make an effective character in that system. I feel like SR4 suffers from a fairly serious case of system mastery. Anything that will help players unfamiliar with SR rules and setting make an effective character that fulfills their concept will be a boon.
Also, I'm sick of using my substantially annotated GM screen.
SR4 chargen is a pain. I use an excel sheet just to keep my numbers in order. I tried doing a fairly bog standard street sam longhand a few months ago and it almost killed me.
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Yeah, part of what threw me so badly was the number of times that rules mechanics are in-line in the description of things, meaning a ton of referencing back until I got what was where in my memory. It was annoying enough doing up the build with Excel, I'll have to try one on paper and see if my patience holds. :)
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Driving this off topic here. But for first time players I find it best for them try out a pre-gen to help get them some of that "system mastery". I understand some say pre-gens aren't the best builds but in my personal experience it doesn't take long for a player to start grasping the concepts and have a build in mind fairly quickly.
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Driving this off topic here. But for first time players I find it best for them try out a pre-gen to help get them some of that "system mastery". I understand some say pre-gens aren't the best builds but in my personal experience it doesn't take long for a player to start grasping the concepts and have a build in mind fairly quickly.
That can certainly work at home but please don't try that at a convention in a Missions game. I made the mistake of doing that at the most recent GenCon and I ended up being...well, let's just say I was underperforming compared to the rest of the group.
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Did you use one out of the book or one that the organizer provided? If the former, there are a few archetypes that work well, even though they are not completely optimized (street sam, face). If the latter, then the organizer should have done a better job at providing what the players needed.
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Did you use one out of the book or one that the organizer provided? If the former, there are a few archetypes that work well, even though they are not completely optimized (street sam, face). If the latter, then the organizer should have done a better job at providing what the players needed.
I complained on Dumpshock about this particular Missions game right after GenCon. I'll briefly review the problems. The GM admitted he'd just been re-allocated to this particular Missions game and had barely read it. Also, there were eight players at the table. Compounding it, there were many tables in the room. It was loud and distracting and I had a hard time hearing the soft-spoken GM only two seats around the table from him.
On my end of things, I made a poor choice in picking an archetype. I was trying to avoid doubling or tripling up on character roles in the group but that's hard to do with eight people. The organizer had a box with some of the archetypes printed out. I ended up picking the Gunslinger Adept which, in hindsight, is one of the least optimal builds in the book. So that part is very much my own fault.
All in all, not a very positive experience. The crowded room was not the SR organizer's fault but throwing a GM who didn't know the scenario at a table with too many players certainly was.
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What's the status on this? I have Amazon Gift Cards waiting to be spent!!!!
*whine* How much longer!!!!! *laugh* ;)
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What's the status on this? I have Amazon Gift Cards waiting to be spent!!!!
*whine* How much longer!!!!! *laugh* ;)
I don't get to give any specifics until we actually have a street date, but after a bit of stasis we've seen some movement on good ol' RT recently. I'm hoping this is the start of the final surge.
Jason H.
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Thank you for responding. :-)
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I'm guessing this is the only way we'll be seeing a production run of the GM Screen again, yes?
Unless there's a secret plot to release a screen separate from the kit before it comes out. Somehow, I lost mine. And then discovered they're impossible to find anywhere on the market (except for Amazon, but I'm not ready to make that $100 commitment).
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I've been asked by a lot of German Players about the Status (and its a small wonder that only a few start to complain after waiting for about a Year)
What can I tell/write these players ?
with a dance for Many others
Medicineman
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Contemplating the worst RPG of all time is a lot like enjoying a foul wine. Not drinking it, of course. But watching another person take a sip, cackling at the expression on their face, and guffawing when they throw up all over their shoes. And then reminiscing about the half-digested spray after the fact. The exquisite pleasure of an aromatic bouquet, second-hand.
-Review of FATAL this almost made me piss myself! Is this box set going to be mondo expensive?
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I've been asked by a lot of German Players about the Status (and its a small wonder that only a few start to complain after waiting for about a Year)
What can I tell/write these players ?
with a dance for Many others
Medicineman
That printing for a product like this is tricky, but we are making progress in getting it arranged. The writing/editing is done, we're just waiting to give it the final shove over the ledge!
Jason H.
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*looks at the people down at the bottom of the cliff* Oops.
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carver, try having the thing on order with your local gaming shop since july of 10, talk about want.
this is not a nudge JM, i know it will be out when its finished, i am if anything patient....most snipers are ;D
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Believe me, I'm really impatient to get it out, too. It's been waiting soooooo long …
Jason H.
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Bumping this to say that Runner's Toolkit seems to be entering a very promising phase …
Jason H.
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Saw your post on Facebook too.
I was wondering why I was drooling like a Pavlovian husky.
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I was wondering why I was drooling like a Pavlovian husky.
Your chin has a hole in it?
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Saw your post on Facebook too.
I was wondering why I was drooling like a Pavlovian husky.
That name rings a bell.
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Very much looking forward to this. Just started running SR4A a month ago and have the pdf gm screen taped to another screen I had lying around that I didn't need. New screen and the PACKS are going to be just what the gm ordered.
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I haven't played or run any Shadowrun in so long... this may be just what the doctor ordered to get me back in the saddle again.
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Any further word on what will be in the box, JMH?
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There's a breakdown on the upcoming release page.
Good stuff.
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Y'know, I remember checking that out, but I didn't remember seeing the Toolkit there.
Must be old age. :P
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Been waiting for this for ages!
Make it published soon!
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Been waiting for this for ages!
Make it published soon!
You betcha! Most of the files have been sent off already!
Jason H.
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Since Runner's Toolkit is now in pre-order phase, when is the official ship date for the physical copy of Runner's Toolkit?
Also, if I purchase the combo pack (physical and PDF) off of BattleShop, will I be able to receive the PDFs immediately, and just have to wait for the physical version to be shipped?
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Since Runner's Toolkit is now in pre-order phase, when is the official ship date for the physical copy of Runner's Toolkit?
Also, if I purchase the combo pack (physical and PDF) off of BattleShop, will I be able to receive the PDFs immediately, and just have to wait for the physical version to be shipped?
We don't have the official ship date--we'll let you know as soon as we do. If you buy the PDF combo, you should be able to get the PDFs immediately.
Jason H.
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Does the PDF include the contents of the GM screen (either separately or in the quick-reference sheets)? I use a laptop rather than a GM's screen, and I would like to have that kind of information handy in electronic form.
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Does the PDF include the contents of the GM screen (either separately or in the quick-reference sheets)? I use a laptop rather than a GM's screen, and I would like to have that kind of information handy in electronic form.
The PDF box set does not include the GM screen, but mainly because we're giving PDFs of the GM screen away for free (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=165&products_id=2712).
Jason H.
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Oh, thanks! I had noticed that before but somehow it managed to slip my mind. :)
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GM Screen Question
The preview pictures seem to show two version of the GM screen; one with a "Shadowrun" logo on the top of the second panel, and one with an "S" logo on the bottom of the fourth panel.
Which is the actual screen? (I hope it's the one with the "S" logo, since the "Shadowrun" logo in the sky detracts from the image IMHO)
What is the other image?
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Hey Jason, any word if Runner's Toolkit (the whole box) and Attitude will be available in Amazon?
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Hey Jason, any word if Runner's Toolkit (the whole box) and Attitude will be available in Amazon?
Good question--I don't know. I'll check.
Jason H.
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Good question--I don't know. I'll check.
Jason H.
Please update the frontpage on an affirmative answer! :P
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Has anyone else had an issue with the updated pdfs? The Compiled Tables file is now crashing my reader. It seems to occur randomly between pages 19 and 29. It happens if I move through the pages from the front to the the back and vice versa. This is the only pdf that is doing this and I have many, many pdfs.
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Allergic to soy (in game, not IRL).
Damn. How much is that Allergy worth?
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Given how common soy products are (they even make containers from soy), and that it is a moderate allergy, it's worth 15 points.
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I got my toolkit today. very, very happy with it. Everything is amazing quality. The vinyl reference sheets are really nice. Water proof, not going to test if they stain but they can take a spilled glass of water for sure. They wipe off easy. It would take a lot to rip one of these. The maps are also water proof but they look like they may rip a little easier but very cool for some location spots. Not large enough for minis but at least you can use a dry erase marker on them. They seem to wipe off easy.
Compiled tables is helpful. Our GM didn't have all of the books and I didn't bring mine. Of course we had to look a weapon up that wasn't in the player guide. We did have the PDF but it took a while to get to get it going and find it. This guide would have been very helpful at the time. We will have this handy every game for now on.
The limited edition GM screen looks amazing. I really like the art work.
it also has a poster of the Seattle skyline. It looks like the same one that comes with the limited edition 20th anniversary book. So I guess if you didn't want to display the one you had in your limited anniversary book you could display this one.
I think this is a great tool for any GM. Newer GM's will probably benefit most for this kit but I imagine seasoned players will enjoy having these large screens and handy reference guides and maps for newer players.
I cannot wait for my next game.
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I got my toolkit today. very, very happy with it. Everything is amazing quality. The vinyl reference sheets are really nice. Water proof, not going to test if they stain but they can take a spilled glass of water for sure. They wipe off easy. It would take a lot to rip one of these. The maps are also water proof but they look like they may rip a little easier but very cool for some location spots. Not large enough for minis but at least you can use a dry erase marker on them. They seem to wipe off easy.
Compiled tables is helpful. Our GM didn't have all of the books and I didn't bring mine. Of course we had to look a weapon up that wasn't in the player guide. We did have the PDF but it took a while to get to get it going and find it. This guide would have been very helpful at the time. We will have this handy every game for now on.
The limited edition GM screen looks amazing. I really like the art work.
it also has a poster of the Seattle skyline. It looks like the same one that comes with the limited edition 20th anniversary book. So I guess if you didn't want to display the one you had in your limited anniversary book you could display this one.
I think this is a great tool for any GM. Newer GM's will probably benefit most for this kit but I imagine seasoned players will enjoy having these large screens and handy reference guides and maps for newer players.
I cannot wait for my next game.
I couldn't agree more, I got mine today.. just reading the anatomy of a shadow run right now.. can't wait to show it off at my LGS.. he seemed mad I preordered, but man those screens are super high quality and durable.. Love the idea of the packs, and the physical stuff is more useful in general then the pdf.. since my tablet got obsconded by my wife..
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Oi Chums,
Just got back from a business trip and found my Toolkit waiting. Holy Cow are those GM screens awesome!! Everything else is sweet too. Great Job!! Can't wait to show off my LE GM Screen at the next game!!
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Anyone else find the Character Generation quick reference sheet to be a little disappointing?
Instead of a streamlined character generation guide, it just tells you to go to various books for this or that rule.
Like "Purchasing Attributes: See page 82".
That's pretty much it. No actual rules given. Just a page number. Which kinda defeats the point of HAVING a quick reference sheet, if you have to go and look up all the rules across the books ANYHOW.
-k
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In fairness, it's a quick reference sheet. So, well, it sounds like it does what's on the tin.
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Yeah, well, at Origins I pulled mine out to help a guy to whip up a quick character for a Missions game.
I was THINKING that it might be something that you could just use by itself with a blank bit of paper to whip up a basic character. Ended up just tossing it back into the box.
-k
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I can see being disappointed, but I can also see having all those page numbers in one place being pretty handy, for folks new to the game. All in all, I think the Toolkit in general had to be an (impossible) balancing act, trying to be useful to newcomers and us salty old veterans, all at once. Go too far in one direction and you've got stuff like this, too far in the other and you've got stuff that's just going to leave a Shadowrun noob scratching his head, y'know?
Not every product in the box could be equally useful to every player and GM, I think. *shrugs* Just the nature of the hobby, I think. How you liking the rest of it? I'm achin' to get my hands on my hardcopy at GenCon and haul it back home to help with local games.
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I guess it was a bit of a disconnect for me, because the OTHER quick reference sheets all were of the sort you keep out on the table to help you during a game, saving you from having to take time to look up the rules. Those worked great, especially for the new players at the table. Magician? Here, keep the Spellcasting and Summoning sheets handy. Gun bunny? Here's all the common firearms tests and modifiers in one place.
Other parts: Gear index books are great. The anatomy of a run books looks useful to figure out what the rules are MEANT to say, as opposed to what they actually say. Haven't had a chance to look at it closely though. The GM screen is pretty and has many useful charts.
-k
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Who's hoop we gotta kick to speed up delivery to Amazon so I can get my Toolkit. I understand it's a delivery issue with some convoluted chain of distribution. But seriously can't they pick up the pace. lol
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I'm not 100% on this, but I don't believe Amazon is a direct distributor for CGL. They're a secondary retailer. Which means they won;t get the product until street date. Which means you'll likely get it a day or three after.
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Yea I understand the problem just venting. Actually usually end up buying from flgs seller on amazon. They tend to post one faster by a week or two and have same prices. Just anxious to have copy in the meat been long wait. (Use amazon for game books due to amazon card, lets me break up cost. I have a few too many games I follow.)
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Troll and Toad selling Toolkit on Amazon for $25, a few left.
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Toolkit just landed on my porch. Been waiting for this one for awhile. Nice and meaty.
Screen is heavy duty and contents will come in handy for old and new players.
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Promo catalog insert in a box set.....nostalgia tears. :'(
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I picked up the Runner's Toolkit at GenCon this year, I'd been using PACKS to run the Welcome to the Sixth World events all weekend and I wanted to get my hands on the maps and the compiled tables. Everything else I'll probably leave by the wayside, although the contacts and locations seems to be an updated version of the contacts packet that came with the first SR4 GM screen, so I'll probably hang on to that.
-GM Screen:
--Positives: awesome, great artwork, great tables, nice touch putting the page number where you can find the table in the book, all the appropriate information. It would have saved space had they collapsed the actions panels into a single master list of free/simple/complex but having them divided out will ease some confusion.
--Negatives: I could have done without the base grenade damage table, though, that's not value added. Instead include something about object resistance or damaging barriers or average barrier rating table. That's more useful.
-Compiled Tables:
--Positives: great resource, it's about time we had something like this.
--Negatives: no list in the front of what the book references mean, i.e. AR = Arsenal, AU = Augmentation, etc. Also, nothing in the tables from Spy Games, or War, or Runner's Black Book?
-On the Run, Anatomy of a Shadowrun
-- I haven't read through either of these in detail yet to ascertain any mistakes that might have been made. As I continue to review in depth I'll update this as appropriate.
-Quick Reference Sheets
--Positives: excellent quality, I like the heavy duty paper they're printed on.
--Negatives: for the combat ones, I think it would have been useful to have both offense and defense, i.e. what do you when being shot at in ranged combat, or being hit in astral combat. True, it's easy enough to work it backwards, but if we're breaking it down for players, we should break down both sides of the equation
-PACKs
--Positives: I worked three Welcome to the Sixth World scenarios utilizing the PACKs system, and in two hours I could have a table of six or seven brand new players generate characters and then spend the last two hours running them through a quick retrieval mission. So the system accomplishes what it set out to accomplish.
--Negatives: Why aren't the kits alphabetized? Why don't more of the skill kits contain critical skills like perception? In the metahuman adjustment table, does it really cost 0 BP to be an Ork? Do you really get 10 BP back for being a troll? Why are these different than the standard SR4A metahuman build point costs?
Under skill kits, it should explain that it is not necessary to purchase <skill kit> trainee before <skill kit> veteran. Also, it should explain how to handle it when you chose two skill kits that have overlapping skills, i.e. Handgun Expert and Automatics Expert both have the Automatics skill. There should be a paragraph instructing players to remove the lower rating/non-specialized skill and recover those skill points in BP. Further, there should also be an explanation about specializations and how those are annotated in the skill kits. Also, it would be useful to list recommended gear kits when choosing those skill kits.
The gear kits make no sense. There's nothing in the gear kit section which emphasizes to players that they should take the basic kit, and the basic kit doesn't even have a commlink! It would have been more effective to list out a basic kit with a commlink, medkit, fake SIN, plus one month of low lifestyle, basic armor and a respirator and tell all of the players to invest in that plus additional gear kits per their chosen skill kits. Also, the cyberware kits weren't broken out or explained in any way, nor were there warnings to those players choosing magically active characters that they should think twice before selecting any augmentations because that will negatively affect their magical abilities. Further, why do all the gear kits have multiple weapons? How many swords is the blade fighter going to need? Four is a bit much. Why does the martial artist need 40 throwing knives? These seem to be incredibly inefficient and mostly a waste of money. There was nothing done to insure that characters could use the gear effectively, either, those weapons that come equipped with smartlink did not have smartlink compatible goggles/glasses/contacts listed in the gear kits. There seemed to be no thought put into the armor selection for the kits, either, as many of the attribute kits ended up with a body of only 2 or 3 and gear kits with armor jackets in them, which, if worn, would impose significant agility penalties during combat. If we're going to include weapons from Arsenal, we might as well have included some of the armor as well to cover that eventuality.
Now, to head off the rebuttals to the list of shortcomings that I have identified above, yes, I as a GM, am responsible for filling in the gaps of player knowledge and ensuring that all of the particular rules governing character creation are adhered to. But my point is this: if we're going to have a quick generation system that requires me to provide the same level of guidance as the regular generation system does, why wouldn't I simply continue to use the regular generation system?
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My order's been "pending" on BattleShop since I ordered it on the 3rd - almost a week. Is this normal, or just part of the Toolkit's overall difficulties in getting distributed?
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Still waiting for my pre-order at my FLGS/Army Surplus Store (Now with Kukris!)
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My order's been "pending" on BattleShop since I ordered it on the 3rd - almost a week. Is this normal, or just part of the Toolkit's overall difficulties in getting distributed?
I suspect it simply got caught up in the GenCon delay. There was a posting on the CGL site indicating things would be on hold for the week of GenCon as most (if not all) staff was going to be at the show.
AJC
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My order's been "pending" on BattleShop since I ordered it on the 3rd - almost a week. Is this normal, or just part of the Toolkit's overall difficulties in getting distributed?
I suspect it simply got caught up in the GenCon delay. There was a posting on the CGL site indicating things would be on hold for the week of GenCon as most (if not all) staff was going to be at the show.
AJC
Ahhhh, that makes sense. My excitement goes up a few notches each day, I hope this thing can live up to my expectations :)
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Still waiting for my pre-order at my FLGS/Army Surplus Store (Now with Kukris!)
I so want to see this place. :D
Too bad the border is so heavily defended. *mutter*...Awakened Moose with frickin' laser beams...*mutter*
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Getting into Canada, not so bad.
Getting into the USA, dear $Deity!
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Getting into Canada, not so bad.
Getting into the USA, dear $Deity!
Yeah, you have to get past these clever buggers. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5_RkYXlmXE&feature=related
And climb over this wall. Strength + Climbing (1).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHjKBjM1ngw
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Finally got my copy from Battle Corps today. It apparently arrived on Friday, but Canada Post decided they wouldn't leave the delivery notice card until Monday afternoon (they actually dated it Friday's date, but for some reason, they frequently drop them off the next business day here), and then gave it to the wrong apartment. ::)
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Finally got my copy from Battle Corps today. It apparently arrived on Friday, but Canada Post decided they wouldn't leave the delivery notice card until Monday afternoon (they actually dated it Friday's date, but for some reason, they frequently drop them off the next business day here), and then gave it to the wrong apartment. ::)
They lost my SR4A Collector's Edition for well over a year.
I was three days away from never getting it because the forwarding address I set up with them almost expired.
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My FLGS/Army Surplus store got my copy in at last.
The GM screen is GORGEOUS! Thick and tough enough to take a dice pelting! The rest is mostly reprinted stuff from the other GM Screen I already have, but the additional material is nice as well.
I was also surprised about the price, but that might have been the Canadian Dollar...
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For the handful of hours I was working the Shadowrun corner of the CGL booth, "it will stop an Ares Predator round" was the phrase I was using to describe the GM screen.
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Ball, hollowpoint, gel, APDS?
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All folded up? Anything but an APDS. 8)
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For the handful of hours I was working the Shadowrun corner of the CGL booth, "it will stop an Ares Predator round" was the phrase I was using to describe the GM screen.
And, if you bought the LE Screen as well, then stacked them, they'd stop a Panther round. ;D
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I guess that Hero has a competitor... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Wmj46S5qo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Wmj46S5qo)
AJC
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For the handful of hours I was working the Shadowrun corner of the CGL booth, "it will stop an Ares Predator round" was the phrase I was using to describe the GM screen.
With my crew, that's a bonus. *Grin*
I do have my ballistic clipboard, just in case, though.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Am I just reading a typo but is the Toolkit on Amazon the same one? It says 2010 althought it was released this year and appears to have different art. Also, why is Battleshop so ridiculously tough to navigate?
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It's an IQ test for gamers? :o "You have to be this smart for Shadowrun"?
;D I know, I'm going to Hell.
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I know, I'm going to Hell.
but You also made me laugh and that is good for Your personal Karma
so maybe You go to Hell but you won't be reborn as a Worm ;D
He who dances in Nirvana
Medicineman
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He who sees from one side of a window only has one view of the house. Right, so aside from your virtual pat on the back for cleverness, how about my question regarding Amazon's listing?
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IIRC, the Toolkit was posted to Amazon in advance of it's originally scheduled release. That release was then delayed for many months. That October 2010 you're looking at is likely the original scheduled release.
I wish I could double-check the ISBN number to be sure for you though, but I'm away from my copy right now.
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http://paizo.com/store/blog&source=mailing#v5748dyo5lcmj (http://paizo.com/store/blog&source=mailing#v5748dyo5lcmj)
Successful jobs spying on big corporations means big money, and it's best to be prepared, whether you're the decker with the headjack bypassing security, or the cybernetically-enhanced bodyguard watching for the wagemage to crash the party. With the Runner's Toolkit, you'll have all of the most essential tables and reference sheets at your fingertips, and for the gamemaster, an introductory adventure as well as a booklet with adventure seeds!
Decker? Really? :o
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http://paizo.com/store/blog&source=mailing#v5748dyo5lcmj (http://paizo.com/store/blog&source=mailing#v5748dyo5lcmj)
Successful jobs spying on big corporations means big money, and it's best to be prepared, whether you're the decker with the headjack bypassing security, or the cybernetically-enhanced bodyguard watching for the wagemage to crash the party. With the Runner's Toolkit, you'll have all of the most essential tables and reference sheets at your fingertips, and for the gamemaster, an introductory adventure as well as a booklet with adventure seeds!
Decker? Really? :o
Hey Bull, looks like somebody's got a problem with the word Decker... ;)
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Bull baiting, forum style. Lovely.
Someone get this on 'trid, it'll sell!!!
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http://paizo.com/store/blog&source=mailing#v5748dyo5lcmj (http://paizo.com/store/blog&source=mailing#v5748dyo5lcmj)
Successful jobs spying on big corporations means big money, and it's best to be prepared, whether you're the decker with the headjack bypassing security, or the cybernetically-enhanced bodyguard watching for the wagemage to crash the party. With the Runner's Toolkit, you'll have all of the most essential tables and reference sheets at your fingertips, and for the gamemaster, an introductory adventure as well as a booklet with adventure seeds!
Decker? Really? :o
Hey Bull, looks like somebody's got a problem with the word Decker... ;)
Not at all - been playing SR for 20 years. Love the word Decker.
My point was that SR4 uses Hacker, and the blerb on the Runner's Toolkit uses "decker" and "headjack" (by which I assume they mean "datajack"), which you don't usually see thrown around in SR4, and you wouldn't expect to see promoting an SR4 product.
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Sorry, I was just busting on you. The terms are totally interchangeable. Whoever wrote up the blerb is probably an old fan of the game and used the word without even thinking about it.
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Sorry, I was just busting on you. The terms are totally interchangeable. Whoever wrote up the blerb is probably an old fan of the game and used the word without even thinking about it.
Well, that's just not good enough! I demand accuracy in my blerbs! I will not rest until I - ohhhh, a cookie! ;D
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A number of Hackers were Deckers. Some still are. *Points to Bull*
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A number of Hackers were Deckers. Some still are. *Points to Bull*
I know.
*Goes back to reading Optional Rule: Breadboarding*
:P
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what is Breadboarding ?
the same like Waterboarding only with Bread instead of Water ?
with an unknown Dance
Medicineman
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what is Breadboarding ?
the same like Waterboarding only with Bread instead of Water ?
It was an option in Virtual Realities 2.0 to make the equivalent of Desktops, rather than Laptops for Deckers.
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something like Nexi (Plural of Nexus) from 4A's Unwired ?
He who also dances in the Nexus
Medicineman
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something like Nexi (Plural of Nexus) from 4A's Unwired ?
He who also dances in the Nexus
Medicineman
Not really. Imagine a Commlink is like a kick-ass Smartphone that can do anything that a Laptop can do. A Deck is like a Laptop. The Breadboarding allowed you to make a PC - cheaper than a Deck to make, but pretty much the same. Nexus are more like Servers.
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Man I miss breadborading IRL.
And I think we need more rules for Nexi, honestly. And CommLinks. And Memory Storage.
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Man I miss breadborading IRL.
Do they not have RadioShack in Canada?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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No, they have a generic no-name brand version now after it got bought out.
I have no more interest in it as well. After I electrocuted myself a handful of times or so, I don't really want to play with electricity that much. But I still miss it.
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There's always Lego! :P
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Man I miss breadborading IRL.
And I think we need more rules for Nexi, honestly. And CommLinks. And Memory Storage.
SR4 has a lot of Hacking rules that are... lacking.
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SR4A has a lot of Hacking rules that are lacking... At the moment! ;D
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I like Decking, but the rules for it give me headaches. Of course, having read through good portions of the earlier editions, I count myself lucky it isn't more difficult than it already is.
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SR4A has a lot of Hacking rules that are lacking... At the moment! ;D
Are they going to be fixed?
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SR4A has a lot of Hacking rules that are lacking... At the moment! ;D
Are they going to be fixed?
I took them to the vet, but my debit card said insufficient funds when I tried to pay. And I just got paid that day, too...
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SR4A has a lot of Hacking rules that are lacking... At the moment! ;D
Are they going to be fixed?
I took them to the vet, but my debit card said insufficient funds when I tried to pay. And I just got paid that day, too...
well played
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SR4A has a lot of Hacking rules that are lacking... At the moment! ;D
Are they going to be fixed?
I took them to the vet, but my debit card said insufficient funds when I tried to pay. And I just got paid that day, too...
well played
"Never go against a Canadian when humor is on the line!" Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha... ... *Falls over dead*
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*looks at the bottle*
Who knew that salsa was toxic to canadians?
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*looks at the bottle*
Who knew that salsa was toxic to canadians?
mexicans lol
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*Sits up* Chileans as well. Damn that's spicy! Not cold anymore!
...
OK, now it's worn off and the damn wind is fraggin' cold!
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OK, now it's worn off and the damn wind is fraggin' cold!
That's what you get for living in Canada.
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OK, now it's worn off and the damn wind is fraggin' cold!
That's what you get for living in Canada.
That's what I get for living in Winnipeg. That, and an increased percentile chance of being shot. I'd have to move to some dangerous hellhole of a place to be in more danger.
Like LA. :P
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OK, now it's worn off and the damn wind is fraggin' cold!
That's what you get for living in Canada.
That's what I get for living in Winnipeg. That, and an increased percentile chance of being shot. I'd have to move to some dangerous hellhole of a place to be in more danger.
Like LA. :P
Or wherever Dick Cheney goes hunting.