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Respirator rating 6 vs Gas Mask.

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Azriel Ragia

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« on: <12-31-13/0336:47> »
Gas Mask:  total immunity to inhalation based toxins (and I assume things that attack the eyes like tear gas)  cost 200 nuyen.

Respirator Rating 6: +6 vs Inhalation based Toxins.  Cost 300 nuyen.

Being the penny pincher I am I am curious as to why anyone would buy a respirator  over a gas mask?  Am I missing something?

 

Novocrane

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« Reply #1 on: <12-31-13/0358:16> »
So far, the only toxin that is purely inhalation vector is Nausea Gas. Everything else is Inhalation / Contact.

Azriel Ragia

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« Reply #2 on: <12-31-13/0412:50> »
So both are worthless the save for in one extremely limited circumstances?

farothel

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« Reply #3 on: <12-31-13/0416:49> »
So both are worthless the save for in one extremely limited circumstances?

Not really.  Normal smoke from a fire for instance is also an inhalation toxin and although not mentioned in the book, it can kill you.

I think the reason why you want the respirator is that you can get it in fancy colours and such so it is fit for polite company, while a gasmask is just that, something that makes you stand out.  If you're in Puyallup under the vulcanic smoke and ash, by all means take a gas mask, but if you're downtown and you just want something to keep the smog out of your lungs, use a respirator as that won't get you questioned by every cop.  And if you are, produce a (fake) medical certification that you have asthma and they will probably let you pass.
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DeathEatsCurry

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« Reply #4 on: <12-31-13/0525:00> »
YMMV on this, but on my table we sort of make the assumption a gas mask is a full-face kind of thing, and as such can't be worn with a helmet without being terribly uncomfortable. By contrast, a respirator is like a small mask that fits over mouth and nose. It forces a trade off between 2 extra armor vs full inhalation immunity (Versus shelling out lots of nuyen for chemical seal and matching armor).

farothel

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« Reply #5 on: <12-31-13/0552:11> »
Gas masks can be worn with helmets.  Soldiers have been doing so for 100 years, so there should be models that allow this.  I assume that the military in shadowrun will still have gas masks in their inventory for those times when full MOPP suits are not needed and they continue to wear helmets (they even wear helmets with MOPP suits).

I'm not sure exactly in which book it is, but I've read somewhere in 4th edition that gas masks were indeed full face things and respirators come also in designer options (like from Zoé or Vashion) to wear to fancy parties.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: <12-31-13/0720:48> »
Official Clarification from Aaron is that the best protection applies, not the worst one, so they still protect against the contact/inhalation gases. Unless your GM actively rules otherwise.

Anyway, keep in mind a Gas Mask has only a 1-hour air supply during which it protects you. That Respirator is always working, against gases and other things. If you get caught by surprise, or intend to be in bad circumstances for longer than an hour, that gas mask is worthless. Plus it draws less attention.
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farothel

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« Reply #7 on: <12-31-13/1253:22> »
If you know that it's going to take more than one hour, get one of those fire fighting masks.  It's a gas mask with an air tank attached to it.  Depending on the time needed, you can easily swap out the small fire fighting tank (5-8 litres) with a scuba diving tank (they go up to a double 12 litres, although those are quite heavy).  That should give quite some time.
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Sichr

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« Reply #8 on: <12-31-13/1348:43> »
Respirator r. 6 with some fancy mode AR images is something you wear next to your Tres Chic when you go Downtown to the party and you need to step out of your Limo...Of when you have Googles loaded with ton of visual enhancers and you dont want to remove it to put on your gas mask.

Anarkitty

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« Reply #9 on: <12-31-13/1421:27> »
Respirator r. 6 with some fancy mode AR images is something you wear next to your Tres Chic when you go Downtown to the party and you need to step out of your Limo...Of when you have Googles loaded with ton of visual enhancers and you dont want to remove it to put on your gas mask.

That's a good point.  You can probably wear a gas mask with most helmets, but not likely with goggles or glasses, and it certainly stands out in polite company.

Namikaze

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« Reply #10 on: <12-31-13/1506:43> »
Unfortunately there aren't any real clear rules on the gas mask, but like most of these people my table just makes the assumption that a gas mask is a full-face gadget that stands out like a sore thumb.  Also, I like to remind my players that respirators can help keep them from catching the common cold, flu, or inhaling that awful ash from Puyallup.  Gas masks could do that too, but respirators are generally more socially acceptable.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #11 on: <12-31-13/1511:40> »
You can wear a gas mask with glasses just fine. Goggles, depending on their layout, might be more difficult. However, I know people who have custom gas masks with focal lenses, so I would happily allow a house rule for capacity for vision enhancements on a gas mask just like goggles.

A gas mask would definitely stand out in "civilized" society, though, no doubt about that. Unless you're wearing bunker gear and/or a SWAT team uniform (and have a reason to be there, there's no dressing like that at a cocktail party without rousing some concern), you'll stand out like a sore thumb in my opinion.


Game mechanics wise, I find Aaron's reading of the toxin resistance rules lacking, which is why we're house ruling them. Under his reading, a 300 nuyen rating 6 respirator severely reduces the cost effectiveness of the 0.6 Essence and 27000 nuyen tracheal filter bioware, and a 200 nuyen gas mask makes a 0.25 Essence and 4500 nuyen rating 1 internal air tank obsolete. Yes, both of the gear pieces can be knocked off, but a piece of cyberware can just as easily be hacked and bricked (at least in my opinion).

Not to mention that the rules completely fail to account for inhalation vector toxins that also have a contact vector, which by my count is all but one; according to Aaron's reading, the Gas Mask would either render you immune to inhalation vector toxins or do absolutely nothing. When I asked if you could use multiple appropriate pieces of gear against toxins with multiple vectors, "Only the best one, or the worst if your GM hates you" is the term he used. This is in contradiction with the book which specifically states "+ the rating of any protective gear/systems", the plural of gear/systems indicates to me that you should be able to use more than one piece of gear.

My table has decided to house rule it this way:
Toxins are resisted with Body + Willpower + the highest rating of protective gear for each vector.
If the toxin only has one vector, an appropriate piece of gear providing immunity provides full immunity.
If the toxin has multiple vectors, an appropriate piece of gear providing immunity to each vector is required for full immunity; a piece of gear providing immunity to only a single vector instead halves the power of the toxin.

Given the above, an average character would roll BOD 3 + WIL 3, and could against CS gas add the rating of a respirator and chemical protection both (let's make them average as well at 3). This character would therefore roll 3+3+3+3 for a total of 12 dice to resist the toxin's power of 8, "averaging" 3 hits and taking 5 stun damage, as well as the -2 dice pool penalty for 10 minutes, incapacitation for 3 combat turns, and double wound modifiers for 10 minutes.

Under the same house rule, if the same character had a gas mask instead of the respirator, he would roll 3+3+3 dice against the toxins power of 4 (halved due to immunity), "averaging" only 2 hits, taking only 2 stun damage and avoiding the 3 combat turn incapacitation, but still suffering the -2 dice pool penalty and double wound modifiers for 10 minutes.

We believe this is a fair system, though it does leave players open to resist toxins somewhat easily with a little bit of Luck. Chemical Resistance is 250 nuyen per rating for a maximum of 1500, and the respirator is 50 per rating for a maximum of 300, so a character could feasibly add 12 dice to their BOD + WIL toxin resistance test for a mere 1800 nuyen. However, since Season 5 is set in Chicago, we feel that it's somewhat fitting for the characters to be able to take necessary precautions and feel safe in their gear if they so desire. And Respirators can always be knocked from their faces, evidenced in one of the CMP missions...
« Last Edit: <12-31-13/1515:44> by martinchaen »

Sichr

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« Reply #12 on: <12-31-13/1519:24> »
It also possible to say that Mask must be bought with the respirator, as Gas mask filters would probably have same rating as respirator, so it effectively nulls the price advantage of respirators with 250Y for the additional protection to contact etc toxins

Ryo

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« Reply #13 on: <12-31-13/1827:56> »
Obviously the primary difference between the two is that Gas Mask is complete immunity with a 1 hour time limit and Respirator lasts forever but just grants bonus dice.

Not sure why so many people jumped to 'respirator is more fashionable' as their go-to answer.

qazcake

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« Reply #14 on: <01-01-14/1548:59> »
Yea gas masks have filters and firefighters
and swat uses them so in combonation with chem resistance then gas masks are very usefull because then all you have to worry about is that nerostun getting through the chemical resistance though for come armor sealing is an option and a gasmask can play into that also.