[Carmody]

I assume you refer to drain rather than background count (otherwise I do not unerstand your point). That's a rule change, not a universe change: Spell Force, DV, etc. are only models of the world, not in-world metrics. It does not change the fact that magicians can get tired or hurt if they use too powerful spells (furthermore, changer drain values from F/2+X to F/2+Y did not double their strength, as X and Y are different, it changes the slope).

Matrix change is VERY explained as an in-universe change, whereas on such change occured regarding focus starting to work remotly

[catrone3]

No, I mean background count. In all older editions, the largest background count was 13 with no places on earth naturally being at that point besides ebbs and voids. In 5e background counts go up to 24 with multiple places on earth being past 13; including, for example, Auschwitz which more than doubled from 4e in background count.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

No, I mean background count. In all older editions, the largest background count was 13 with no places on earth naturally being at that point besides ebbs and voids. In 5e background counts go up to 24 with multiple places on earth being past 13; including, for example, Auschwitz which more than doubled from 4e in background count.

Background counts didn't change; the metagame granularity changed.  Skills went from ranging from 1-6 to 1-12, so Background Counts doubled as well.

[catrone3]

from 3rd to 4th skills also changed, but you didn't see the background count values change there. So the change in 5e does not match up with any other version changes that are purely mechanic for gameplay reasons.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

from 3rd to 4th skills also changed, but you didn't see the background count values change there. So the change in 5e does not match up with any other version changes that are purely mechanic for gameplay reasons.

Well inevitably there are continuity issues when the entire rules engine changes.  You can choose to have a problem with them, or choose to accept them as unavoidable wrinkles and look past them.   

You used to be able to cast a fireball from astral projection onto a spell lock's aura and then have the blast go off in physical space.  No explanation as to why subsequent editions you could no longer do so... it's just a game balance/sanity change.  It is what it is.

[Carmody]

Well, I do not really know what to say...
You requested opinions regarding and you got them. It seems all of us agree on the matter, I'm sorry for you you do not like the answers but this is our opinion. For sure I will not change mine.

[Marcus]

I don't think there is any changing your mind on this Cat3. But I seriously doubt anyone here is going to support your posation. Modern Definition of position as ownership is not RAI. The accepted intention has been pretty clearly explained, (In the character's Aura) and unless your running the game, I'm reasonable confident the vast majority of GMs will come to the same concussion the forum at large has given you.

If your issue is you can't keep up with Shediem, use spells to get faster, if you don't like that use a spell to slow them down, or if you don't like spells, how about some ball bearings. You could always chase them down on the Astral, or just buy some roller blades. The great thing about SR is, there always another options, If you can't get them one way, then just get them another. 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

If your issue is you can't keep up with Shediem, use spells to get faster, if you don't like that use a spell to slow them down, or if you don't like spells, how about some ball bearings. You could always chase them down on the Astral, or just buy some roller blades. The great thing about SR is, there always another options, If you can't get them one way, then just get them another.

Or just shoot 'em.  It's not like Shedim have Immunity to Normal Weapons in SR5

[catrone3]

Carmody, I mentioned the background stuff because you had said there were no changes in the way magic worked. I thought I should enlighten you to at least one of the many.

Marcus, at this point I am not bothering with trying to explain why it could be allowed based on RAW. However, I was explaining that there are changes in how magic works throughout edition changes, and that some have not been spotted by some people here. While I didn't see anything in the aura's section of core that explicitly stated that common view (what I was trying to point out as being a possible intended change); I very well could have missed it somewhere, no one is perfect.

Stainless Steel devil rat, While you are right that they don't have immunity to normal weapons, they can have regeneration which unless it is the superior regeneration from dark terrors can't heal magical damage.

[ShadowcatX]

And with the foci being a force 10, the -2 penalty to sustain it isn't a problem, plus it is normally sustained on a sustaining foci.

So you are playing D&D with Shadowrun rules. Gotcha.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Stainless Steel devil rat, While you are right that they don't have immunity to normal weapons, they can have regeneration which unless it is the superior regeneration from dark terrors can't heal magical damage.

No dispute that magic damage is superior to mundane damage when it comes to Regenerating critters... but regeneration only works once in practice.  Once the PCs see the critter regenerates, it's child's play to negate it because regeneration only ticks in at the end of the combat round.  Once they're down, have another runner or use your next combat pass to coup de grace them before the end of that combat round.  You don't regenerate ANY damage, mundane or magical, if it's to the brain/spinal column.  That little quirk of regeneration is still in SR5. 

[catrone3]

Shadowcat, I am just being resourceful with back up options while the main skill is longarms. wouldn't call that D&D.

Stainless steel Devil Rat, have you seen the superior regeneration that shedim can have in Dark terrors? it allows them to regenerate every pass as a simple action, and all damage can be healed no matter the location or type. That one is hard to do and something to best keep distance from.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Stainless steel Devil Rat, have you seen the superior regeneration that shedim can have in Dark terrors? it allows them to regenerate every pass as a simple action, and all damage can be healed no matter the location or type. That one is hard to do and something to best keep distance from.

Actually I haven't, but I'm still confident that I'm not going out on a limb to say that it's not worth upending how magic "works" in-universe to find a way to justify remotely wielding a magic focus to combat them.

[Marcus]

I have read your logic Cat3, and we are going to have to agree to disagree. Your logic contravenes 5 editions of how things work, don't hold your breath on that one, half the errata team has already posted in here telling you why it won't go your way. Ranged astral effects == spells, not foci.

But SSDR, is right, regen is actually very rarely an issue in gun fights, so long as the target that lack Immunity to normal weapons or hardened body armor.  Most Teams will find filling something so full of enough hole that it won't get back up to fairly easy, if your team isn't one of them. Then maybe it time to invest in some firepower. An Ares Alpha goes a  long way to filling things will meaningful sized holes.

Or any of the other solution i suggested should get you there just fine. Why not consider another option? Despite your assertion to the contrary, the finger thing is both not RAW, and not RAI. That won't change. But guns work, spells work, running it down with truck would work great. Free your mind the rest will follow.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I have read your logic Cat3, and we are going to have to agree to disagree. Your logic contravenes 5 editions of how things work, don't hold your breath on that one, half the errata team has already posted in here telling you why it won't go your way. Ranged astral effects == spells, not foci.

But SSDR, is right, regen is actually very rarely an issue in gun fights, so long as the target that lack Immunity to normal weapons or hardened body armor.  Most Teams will find filling something so full of enough hole that it won't get back up to fairly easy, if your team isn't one of them. Then maybe it time to invest in some firepower. An Ares Alpha goes a  long way to filling things will meaningful sized holes.

Or any of the other solution i suggested should get you there just fine. Why not consider another option? Despite your assertion to the contrary, the finger thing is both not RAW, and not RAI. That won't change. But guns work, spells work, running it down with truck would work great. Free your mind the rest will follow.

Heh fun story.  My rigger with an Ares Roadmaster fitted with a Ram plate versus a bug spirit hive was the shortest and most one sided fight ever.  It's one thing to be immune to normal weapons.  It's another to have to try to soak 36+DV anyway.