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Run and Gun Errata

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Kincaid

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« Reply #90 on: <05-23-14/2203:50> »
Please make the wording on Custom Fit (Stack) clearer; the way it is now, "Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person", the "same maker" can be read to mean either the same manufacturer, or the same person who did the Custom Fit on both sets.

I disagree that this errata is necessary; please see this post for details and discussion.

And please see this one for a reason as to why it's not as clear as SlowDeck makes it seem.

The entire chapter is organized around different makers of high-fashion armor.  There's absolutely no mention of a tailor making anything from scratch (and how could he, given the branding of the item?).  I'm with SlowDeck on this one.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #91 on: <05-23-14/2212:30> »
We could, as previously mentioned in this thread, use a clarification on which lines belong to Zoe, as they currently break the mold in R&G.

Kincaid

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« Reply #92 on: <05-23-14/2216:05> »
We could, as previously mentioned in this thread, use a clarification on which lines belong to Zoe, as they currently break the mold in R&G.

I could have sword this got answered somewhere.  It's Executive, Heritage, Moonsilver, and Second Skin.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #93 on: <05-23-14/2218:24> »
Reference? I mean, it's not a stretch to house rule, as both the fluff from R&G and SR4's Arsenal have 3 of those four listed as Zoe brands, but someone is bound to argue it.

Kincaid

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« Reply #94 on: <05-23-14/2221:03> »
I was just going off of Arsenal.  Since who owns what is largely a flavor issue, I figure going back an edition is perfectly fine.
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RelentlessImp

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« Reply #95 on: <05-23-14/2226:50> »
Reference? I mean, it's not a stretch to house rule, as both the fluff from R&G and SR4's Arsenal have 3 of those four listed as Zoe brands, but someone is bound to argue it.

It should be pretty obvious in the text - every section is prefaced by a blurb on the company (Vashon Island, Zoe, Ares Victory) which then goes into details about specific armor types, and is ended by the preface for the next company. Some consistency on the company names being on the tables would be nice, though.
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SlowDeck

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« Reply #96 on: <05-23-14/2233:32> »
Please make the wording on Custom Fit (Stack) clearer; the way it is now, "Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person", the "same maker" can be read to mean either the same manufacturer, or the same person who did the Custom Fit on both sets.

I disagree that this errata is necessary; please see this post for details and discussion.

And please see this one for a reason as to why it's not as clear as SlowDeck makes it seem.

The entire chapter is organized around different makers of high-fashion armor.  There's absolutely no mention of a tailor making anything from scratch (and how could he, given the branding of the item?).  I'm with SlowDeck on this one.

I was going to go into a long bit, but you covered what I was going to say. And said it better.
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RelentlessImp

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« Reply #97 on: <05-23-14/2258:17> »
Please make the wording on Custom Fit (Stack) clearer; the way it is now, "Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person", the "same maker" can be read to mean either the same manufacturer, or the same person who did the Custom Fit on both sets.

I disagree that this errata is necessary; please see this post for details and discussion.

And please see this one for a reason as to why it's not as clear as SlowDeck makes it seem.

The entire chapter is organized around different makers of high-fashion armor.  There's absolutely no mention of a tailor making anything from scratch (and how could he, given the branding of the item?).  I'm with SlowDeck on this one.

I was going to go into a long bit, but you covered what I was going to say. And said it better.

A bigger problem with your interpretation is this: You can re-fit a piece of armor with an Armorer + Logic test. Custom Fit (Stacked) says it has to be Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person. So, if you get a new piece of 'ware that boosts one of your Physical Attributes, and you have the Custom Fit item re-fit for your shiny new attributes, does that mean the Custom Fit (Stack) no longer works with it? Because it's no longer Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person - it's just Custom Fit for the same person and would necessitate buying the armor a second time.
« Last Edit: <05-23-14/2300:56> by RelentlessImp »
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SlowDeck

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« Reply #98 on: <05-23-14/2303:33> »
Please make the wording on Custom Fit (Stack) clearer; the way it is now, "Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person", the "same maker" can be read to mean either the same manufacturer, or the same person who did the Custom Fit on both sets.

I disagree that this errata is necessary; please see this post for details and discussion.

And please see this one for a reason as to why it's not as clear as SlowDeck makes it seem.

The entire chapter is organized around different makers of high-fashion armor.  There's absolutely no mention of a tailor making anything from scratch (and how could he, given the branding of the item?).  I'm with SlowDeck on this one.

I was going to go into a long bit, but you covered what I was going to say. And said it better.

A bigger problem with your interpretation is this: You can re-fit a piece of armor with an Armorer + Logic test. Custom Fit (Stacked) says it has to be Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person. So, if you get a new piece of 'ware that boosts one of your Physical Attributes, and you have the Custom Fit item re-fit for your shiny new attributes, does that mean the Custom Fit (Stack) no longer works with it? Because it's no longer Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person - it's just Custom Fit for the same person.

Actually, it doesn't say that; it says that the armor must by the same maker for the same person and must be custom fit. Custom Fit itself specifies the rules on how to custom fit, but does not specify the maker and the person who alter it must be the same.

The problem is the grammar of the sentence is archaic, so it plays a bit of merry havoc on those who are highly educated but used to using modern grammatical forms only. Interestingly, the reason why it became archaic is that it could cause some confusion among those who didn't make study of the language a life-long pursuit. Which, basically, was most people.
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RelentlessImp

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« Reply #99 on: <05-23-14/2308:48> »
Please make the wording on Custom Fit (Stack) clearer; the way it is now, "Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person", the "same maker" can be read to mean either the same manufacturer, or the same person who did the Custom Fit on both sets.

I disagree that this errata is necessary; please see this post for details and discussion.

And please see this one for a reason as to why it's not as clear as SlowDeck makes it seem.

The entire chapter is organized around different makers of high-fashion armor.  There's absolutely no mention of a tailor making anything from scratch (and how could he, given the branding of the item?).  I'm with SlowDeck on this one.

I was going to go into a long bit, but you covered what I was going to say. And said it better.

A bigger problem with your interpretation is this: You can re-fit a piece of armor with an Armorer + Logic test. Custom Fit (Stacked) says it has to be Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person. So, if you get a new piece of 'ware that boosts one of your Physical Attributes, and you have the Custom Fit item re-fit for your shiny new attributes, does that mean the Custom Fit (Stack) no longer works with it? Because it's no longer Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person - it's just Custom Fit for the same person.

Actually, it doesn't say that; it says that the armor must by the same maker for the same person and must be custom fit. Custom Fit itself specifies the rules on how to custom fit, but does not specify the maker and the person who alter it must be the same.

The problem is the grammar of the sentence is archaic, so it plays a bit of merry havoc on those who are highly educated but used to using modern grammatical forms only. Interestingly, the reason why it became archaic is that it could cause some confusion among those who didn't make study of the language a life-long pursuit. Which, basically, was most people.

But Custom Fit (stack), by its grammatical structure (and your interpretation), does indicate that (A) Your Custom Fit (stack) armor and the Armored Clothing must come from the same manufacturer, and (B) The Custom Fit (Stack) item needs to be Custom Fitted by the manufacturer. So yes, some errata that clears up the grammar would be needed, since you yourself admit that it's misleading, don't you think?
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SlowDeck

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« Reply #100 on: <05-23-14/2318:15> »
Please make the wording on Custom Fit (Stack) clearer; the way it is now, "Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person", the "same maker" can be read to mean either the same manufacturer, or the same person who did the Custom Fit on both sets.

I disagree that this errata is necessary; please see this post for details and discussion.

And please see this one for a reason as to why it's not as clear as SlowDeck makes it seem.

The entire chapter is organized around different makers of high-fashion armor.  There's absolutely no mention of a tailor making anything from scratch (and how could he, given the branding of the item?).  I'm with SlowDeck on this one.

I was going to go into a long bit, but you covered what I was going to say. And said it better.

A bigger problem with your interpretation is this: You can re-fit a piece of armor with an Armorer + Logic test. Custom Fit (Stacked) says it has to be Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person. So, if you get a new piece of 'ware that boosts one of your Physical Attributes, and you have the Custom Fit item re-fit for your shiny new attributes, does that mean the Custom Fit (Stack) no longer works with it? Because it's no longer Custom Fit by the same maker for the same person - it's just Custom Fit for the same person.

Actually, it doesn't say that; it says that the armor must by the same maker for the same person and must be custom fit. Custom Fit itself specifies the rules on how to custom fit, but does not specify the maker and the person who alter it must be the same.

The problem is the grammar of the sentence is archaic, so it plays a bit of merry havoc on those who are highly educated but used to using modern grammatical forms only. Interestingly, the reason why it became archaic is that it could cause some confusion among those who didn't make study of the language a life-long pursuit. Which, basically, was most people.

But Custom Fit (stack), by its grammatical structure (and your interpretation), does indicate that (A) Your Custom Fit (stack) armor and the Armored Clothing must come from the same manufacturer, and (B) The Custom Fit (Stack) item needs to be Custom Fitted by the manufacturer. So yes, some errata that clears up the grammar would be needed, since you yourself admit that it's misleading, don't you think?

Nope. The text is clear in-context. Here's the important part of Custom Fit:

"The refit process requires an Armorer
shop and an Armorer + Logic [Mental] (10, 1 hour) Extended Test.
The owner can also use their Contacts to help them get the job
done, requiring loss of the armor for one week and a payment of
25 percent of the initial armor cost."

Emphasis mine.

It indicates that it is the owner, not the maker, that is doing the custom fitting... or, if not them, someone they hire. Now, note this key bit at the beginning of Custom Fit (Stack):

"This characteristic employs all the Custom Fit rules"

The bit about it stacking with other Custom Fit items is in addition to the rules of Custom Fit. However, the rules of Custom Fit assume it is the owner, not the maker, who is doing the modification. By obeying the same rules, Custom Fit (Stack) can only make logical sense if the manufacturer is not necessarily the one who makes the alterations.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #101 on: <05-24-14/0211:09> »
This is an errata thread.  Discussion should be taken to one of the aforementioned threads.
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tequila

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« Reply #102 on: <06-11-14/1704:59> »

Quote from: p120, Flechette Suppressive Fire
These attacks function similar to Enhanced Suppression (see above) and prevents targets from using the Drop Prone action to avoid the attack and suffers no loss of width, quite the opposite

This sentence is seems confusing and is possibly poorly phrased.

"quite the opposite"
This seems completely out of place in the sentence.

"and prevents targets from using the Drop Prone action to avoid the attack "
Not sure this is necessary since the sentence refers to Enhances Suppression which already has this quality.

Suggested replacement: "These attacks function similar to Enhanced Suppression (see above) and suffers no loss of width."



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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #103 on: <06-17-14/0407:00> »

Quote from: p120, Flechette Suppressive Fire
These attacks function similar to Enhanced Suppression (see above) and prevents targets from using the Drop Prone action to avoid the attack and suffers no loss of width, quite the opposite

This sentence is seems confusing and is possibly poorly phrased.

"quite the opposite"
This seems completely out of place in the sentence.

"and prevents targets from using the Drop Prone action to avoid the attack "
Not sure this is necessary since the sentence refers to Enhances Suppression which already has this quality.

Suggested replacement: "These attacks function similar to Enhanced Suppression (see above) and suffers no loss of width."

Read the next sentence. It goes on to say that the flechette suppressive fire attack in fact widens the area of the suppressive fire, hence the "quite the opposite"

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #104 on: <06-25-14/1544:40> »
It's Errata to me:

There is no real good reason a sledgehammer would have less reach than a combat axe.

Equality for hammers! You know it's right!

:)


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