Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Forum Business => Topic started by: JustADude on <02-05-12/0754:34>
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I really think it would be a good idea to remove the anonymity from Applause and Smite actions, possibly by putting in some form of log tracking who gave whom +1s and -1s, when, and for what post. Even if it's only visible by Mods and the person who received the Rep such a tool would be a great thing to help people figure out what they're doing that's impressing people and what's pissing them off, and which people are in what category. Showing a list on a member's Profile about who's Repped them, and how many times would be a cool bonus as well.
Not only that, but I think knowing that they'll have their names plastered up on a log as Smiting someone a half-dozen times a day, where they can be called on it, just might help curtail people being immature little so-and-sos when they get their pretty-snowflake feelings hurt and are too petty to let it go and move on with their lives.
I'm also absolutely sure it would definitely prevent someone from falsely assuming someone else has been harassing them in such a manner.
Take my recent interplay with Lethe, for example. He and I got into a bit of a tiff after he (I'll be charitable and say "unintentionally") trolled a comment I'd made while trying to explain something to a 3rd party and, ever since then, my Neg-Rep's been dropping like a stone. Has he gotten something up his "pants" and decided to hound the Smite button because he has nothing better to do than nurse a grudge over me telling him I would prefer he discontinue his participation in the thread I'd started... or is he totally chill and innocent of any wrong-doing and I was just so much of a jerk that over a dozen different people have felt the need to Smite me over it? Or was it because of something else entirely that has nothing to do with that thread at all?
Right now, there's no real way to tell.
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Here's an even easier suggestion: ignore it. I was going to ask if you even cared about rep, on a random website, if there's no accountability. Your post tells me you do, so I'm going to alter my original question:
Why do you care about a pair of numbers that anybody/everybody can click to their heart's content, with no accountability? It's not like our postings here are part of actual gameplay, where your rep is important.
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Honestly? It is a lot of work for no real need. This is the internet. If, at any time, there is something that you don't want to see, the best answer is always 'look somewhere else'.
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Why do you care about a pair of numbers that anybody/everybody can click to their heart's content, with no accountability? It's not like our postings here are part of actual gameplay, where your rep is important.
I don't really care about the rep itself, as much as the behavioral patterns behind it. Simply put, much like gossiping behind someone's back, the best you can say about it is that is that it's immature, petty, and done out of spitefulness... none of which are traits that should be encouraged.
Plus, I want to see exactly how much of CanRay's reputation is from his jokes, and how much is from his serious posts.
Wait... he does make serious posts, right? ;)
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Removing the rep entirely would be an option too. But seriously, I've made no secret that I despise the karma generation system, but I've noticed every single time I give an honest opinion on the matter, it seems that three or four people get butt-hurt and take it personally and my rep takes a fraggin nose dive. No matter what it is that is done, something needs to be so that people can't just anonymously pull that noise with no consequences.
*- I realize that the rep system doesn't mean that much, but it can cause issues still. Look at the criteria that one guy posted for his PbP game--checking rep and stuff.
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*looks at Guns's -23, then at his -87* You and I have a very different view of 'nosedive' chummer. If you can't stand the heat, unplug the datajack. This is the internet, it isn't going to get any better, rep system or no. Again, if you don't like it, just don't look at it. Problem solved.
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That functionality isn't part of the base SMF package, and we're not interested in introducing a mod that adds that functionality. Presuming one even exists.
Paul
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Right. As Paul said, we're not looking to add custom code at this time to the forums since it adds a bigger headache during upgrades and such. There's arguments for and against the rep system, but overall it's pretty harmless. It gives you an idea of how others perceive you, but an even better way for new posters to determine your worth is you actual posts. And, in this regard, well-intentioned and thought-out posts will generate good rep, while posts that do nothing more than denigrate others and/or add nothing constructive to discussions will generate bad rep.
Yes, there are occasions where some people will smite you hourly just because they don't like that you chose the name of a famous character in the setting as your handle*. But, eventually, their fingers get tired and the constructive posts you make win out.
*or some other reason entirely.
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Yes, there are occasions where some people will smite you hourly just because they don't like that you chose the name of a famous character in the setting as your handle.
Yeah, sure, like you would have any experience with that. ;) ;D
But, yeah, I didn't know what size work-load the idea would be, so I thought I'd throw it out on the off chance it might be an easy flip of the switch.
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But, yeah, I didn't know what size work-load the idea would be, so I thought I'd throw it out on the off chance it might be an easy flip of the switch.
There's no harm in making suggestions, or asking for changes. If anything, there's a chance that it might make things better. I'd rather have to shoot down 9 ideas to get to 1 good one, than see a bunch of tumbleweeds go by in this forum because no one feels like making suggestions.
Paul
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I don't really care what's done about it, but something does need to be done with the rep system being so easy to shoot someone's rep in the foot by yourself just because you happen to disagree with a few posts they have.
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It is a reputation system on the frakking internet. If you don't like it, ignore it. If you get torn up about every little +1/-1 you get, then you're going to need to invest in a lot of antacid. Take it from someone who has more than double your negatives, yeah?
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I have some bad news, I think.
I checked the settings. There's a 1 hour wait period between karma votes on the same user. I checked, it works; I can't add positive or negative votes to the same user more than once per hour.
This means:
1. Your hated forum enemy hates you enough to make it his hourly duty to vote you down.
2. Other people hate your posts too, you're not the focus of a single internet stalker.
In the case of 1, I recommend looking in to restraining orders, etc. That's one creepy dude.
In the case of 2, I recommend catering to the popular kids' posting expectations, or reducing how much you care about the rep score.
The 'job' here is to be a part of the community, and enrich it with your content. Users are content. But a community has a certain character. If you don't fit in, you're going to get negative reactions. Apparently that can manifest itself a tad in the karma score.
Either you adjust your style to match, or you thicken your skin, or you go do something else with your time. I for one hope you elect one of the first 2 options.
Paul
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... [Snip] ...
The 'job' here is to be a part of the community, and enrich it with your content. Users are content. But a community has a certain character. If you don't fit in, you're going to get negative reactions. Apparently that can manifest itself a tad in the karma score.
Either you adjust your style to match, or you thicken your skin, or you go do something else with your time. I for one hope you elect one of the first 2 options.
Paul
The first should not be an option, as noone should have to change their opinions just because someone else doesn't like said opinion.
The second should not be an option as that smacks of part of the problem with the school system and the bullying issue. Too many times one hears to "tough it out" or "ignore them". Such does not work, and only lets bullies know they can get away with their antics.
The last isn't an option because a person has just as much right to log in as those who are doing the hourly smites on them.
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You're right, everyone else should change because they're mean to you.
It seems to me that people are really attaching an excessive amount of weight to those karma thing. I recommend ignoring it, while continuing about your forumly business.
Paul
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This means:
1. Your hated forum enemy hates you enough to make it his hourly duty to vote you down.
2. Other people hate your posts too, you're not the focus of a single internet stalker.
In the case of 1, I recommend looking in to restraining orders, etc. That's one creepy dude.
In the case of 2, I recommend catering to the popular kids' posting expectations, or reducing how much you care about the rep score.
Given that, as near as I can tell, my rep is going down by roughly -1 per hour, almost exclusively during the hours that said single individual is active on the forums, I'm pretty dang sure it's #1.
There's no way to know for sure, though, which was exactly the point of the original suggestion.
You're right, everyone else should change because they're mean to you.
You must admit, the world world would be a better place if everyone stopped acting like assholes whenever they thought they could get away with it.
Of course, that's not going to happen until everyone else stops telling their victims to suck it up and start calling them on it.
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Given that, as near as I can tell, my rep is going down by roughly -1 per hour, almost exclusively during the hours that said single individual is active on the forums, I'm pretty dang sure it's #1.
Sucks to be you. I recommend ignoring the popularity contest score that is karma moving forward.
You must admit, the world world would be a better place if everyone stopped being assholes.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIFT
http://media.tumblr.com/EfFLvTB7QhawysykuHKtVMH5o1_400.jpg
Oh, and hey, my first -1! :'(
Paul
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Given that, as near as I can tell, my rep is going down by roughly -1 per hour, almost exclusively during the hours that said single individual is active on the forums, I'm pretty dang sure it's #1.
Sucks to be you. I recommend ignoring the popularity contest score that is karma moving forward.
And attitudes like this are why so many who were and are bullied either go on shooting sprees or commit suicide.
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And attitudes like this are why so many who were and are bullied either go on shooting sprees or commit suicide.
Really?
Crap karma score leads to suicide?
Well, you've mastered the art of hyperbole. There is nothing more I can teach you. Go forth and spread your wisdom among the multitudes.
Paul
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And attitudes like this are why so many who were and are bullied either go on shooting sprees or commit suicide.
Really?
Crap karma score leads to suicide?
Well, you've mastered the art of hyperbole. There is nothing more I can teach you. Go forth and spread your wisdom among the multitudes.
Paul
Oi... I just said it was that kind of attitude that led to such things. Geez.
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Ah, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.
Meanwhile, I continue to exist in a thorough entrenched position: this is a non-issue of enormous proportions.
But I've been wrong before. Best news of all: it's not my decision. If the people who run the show want it turned off, or want the waiting period bumped to 24 hours, that's what I'll do. With the exact amount of emotion that my -1 score provokes*.
Paul
* None.
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Ah, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.
Meanwhile, I continue to exist in a thorough entrenched position: this is a non-issue of enormous proportions.
But I've been wrong before. Best news of all: it's not my decision. If the people who run the show want it turned off, or want the waiting period bumped to 24 hours, that's what I'll do. With the exact amount of emotion that my -1 score provokes*.
Paul
* None.
reeks of awesome
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+1 to you, Paul. Even though I know it won't phase you any. ;)
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+1 to you, Paul. Even though I know it won't phase you any. ;)
Some cash would be nice...
Paul
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Early in my days here on the forum (Yes, it's FastJack storytime, gather 'round kiddies!), I used to worry about my negative rep going up incrementally due to person(s) simply not liking that I post as FastJack (the horror!).
Then, I discovered the best possible method for defeating the dread negative rep score. Post constructive, flame-less, and respectful posts that help people to enjoy their time on the forums and make it so they seek YOU out for game information. Amazing how that works. And I didn't even have to change who I was. And I CAN ignore the negative rep without feeling "bullied". Because (and this is a HUGE secret), if you ignore the bully, don't even respond to them, then (I can't believe I revealing this) -- they do leave you alone. Bullies bully for one reason - attention. I'm not saying you shouldn't stand up for yourself, or report dangerous behavior (mostly because there ARE sociopaths that aren't doing it for attention), but if you're finding that you can't ignore a bully's taunts (or a negative rep score), then they have won and you are already changing yourself based on their opinion. The only way to escape changing yourself to "fit" other perceptions is to truly not care about those perceptions.
Alrighty, story time's over kiddies. Back to hacking the world's free press.
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I think comparisons to schoolyard bullying and the usage of words like "victims" is a little ridiculous in this context, fellas. It's a rep score on an internet forum. What's more, it's a known issue (inasmuch as it's even an "issue") and one with a known answer from on high; "We can't do anything about it without threatening forum stability."
Folks have been griping about the rep score thing since almost day one, and the answer has been, and continues to be, "Sorry, but maybe you shouldn't worry about it too much, we can't really change that."
Bringing up teen suicide in some attempt to up the ante, and demanding that something must be done, isn't going to do anything to stop you from getting smote. If anything, the vocal complaints about the smite system are only going to egg on whatever sad, lonely, person has their cell phone alarm clock set to remind them to smite you every hour, on the hour.
That which cannot be changed must be endured. It's a -1 next to your user name, not the end of the world. Don't let it get you down, focus on getting more +1 going, instead.
Or, hell, just don't worry about it at all. You've got a negative rep score? Good. That means you've actually said something on here, and stuck to your guns enough that someone else has decided to waste their time pressing your buttons. Good on you for having an opinion. I'm a little leery of anyone without a negative rep. I think they're up to something.
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I think comparisons to schoolyard bullying and the usage of words like "victims" is a little ridiculous in this context, fellas. It's a rep score on an internet forum. What's more, it's a known issue (inasmuch as it's even an "issue") and one with a known answer from on high; "We can't do anything about it without threatening forum stability."
Folks have been griping about the rep score thing since almost day one, and the answer has been, and continues to be, "Sorry, but maybe you shouldn't worry about it too much, we can't really change that."
Bringing up teen suicide in some attempt to up the ante, and demanding that something must be done, isn't going to do anything to stop you from getting smote. If anything, the vocal complaints about the smite system are only going to egg on whatever sad, lonely, person has their cell phone alarm clock set to remind them to smite you every hour, on the hour.
That which cannot be changed must be endured. It's a -1 next to your user name, not the end of the world. Don't let it get you down, focus on getting more +1 going, instead.
Or, hell, just don't worry about it at all. You've got a negative rep score? Good. That means you've actually said something on here, and stuck to your guns enough that someone else has decided to waste their time pressing your buttons. Good on you for having an opinion. I'm a little leery of anyone without a negative rep. I think they're up to something.
Much wisdom in this post. The issue is a nontroversy in my view.
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*snip* I'm a little leery of anyone without a negative rep. I think they're up to something.
oh we are...
wait, where did that -(whatever) come from?
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My personal stance is that I would like to be able to ask a specific question, and wish it could just be put in my in box anonymously: Why? Why did this post cause you to smite? I don't want names. Names lead to harassment. Whys lead to you realizing "Hey, that post was a little more inflammatory then I wanted it to be," such as my tiny amount of negs.
Wishfull thinking is all
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It's weird, I get more points when I haven't posted recently than I do when I actually do anything. About 90% of the time when I see someone's negs skyrocket it's fairly obvious what they did. Sometimes it's just overly trying to say that their opinion is far greater than everyone else's opinion, sometimes its just being a general drekhead and being abrasive to other forum member, and sometimes (my personal pet peeve) it's ignoring all points of a debate that have been made and posting the same thing they did before (that all the points countered) as though it didn't exist.
I get the occasional oddball here and there, but if I'm honest with myself, I know exactly where they come from. It doesn't really matter in the long run though. Personally I think that an ignore feature would be far more useful than an overhaul of the karma system (although slightly confusing when people quote the ignored). That way people could just separate themselves into groups of like minded runners.
The real issue (if you can straight-faced call it that) is that rather than just letting it roll of their back, or actually bothering to look for what caused the neg., most people will just pick out who they think sent the smite and smite that person back. Of course, about half the time they get it wrong (because it's always the person they were abrasive too/countered their point/were arrogant to that they think smote them) and start a smiting war (often fueled by a flame war in the thread as well) in which everyone including the mod that tells everyone to cool it get hit a few times. The majority of the negs I hand out aren't from posts related to me, but are to people who are just all around being dicks to other people on the forum. It's not meant to be a "haha you got negged" so much as a "Hey straighten up".
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i never bother to worry about when i get them, pos or neg, and few enough people make any note of when they give them, so it's a moot point. (bad pun intended)
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I am not a number, I'm a free man!
Judge me by how I am, not by how people vote for me!!!
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Yeah, I know, that'll still put me in the "Drop him in the pool of lava" section, but still...
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oh but you are a number, #1 poster, first of the Prime Runners, loudest voice in the forum, 600th person to join the forum, and our favorite canadian target.
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canadian target.
Isn't that redundant? ;)
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nah, gotta differentiate between canadians, french-canadians, french, and french-speaking targets (not all mutually exclusive groups)
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nah, gotta differentiate between canadians, french-canadians, french, and french-speaking targets (not all mutually exclusive groups)
And those SoBs from Ontario....
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Yeah, I know, that'll still put me in the "Drop him in the pool of lava" section, but still...
Strikes me as too swift. My vote's for locking you in a confined space filled with broken glass, rats, and a slow acid drip.
Points will be awarded to you for the # of rats you kill. Posthumously, of course.
Paul
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nah, gotta differentiate between canadians, french-canadians, french, and french-speaking targets (not all mutually exclusive groups)
And those SoBs from Ontario...
And Torontonians.
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*Chuckle*
"Bring some accountability to the system that makes us accountable for our posts!"
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I was wondering what the + and - numbers were. So if the advice of everybody is that it has no meaning and doesn't matter and to just ignore it then why is it there at all? You should turn it off instead of adding new features.
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I still stand firm in my stance that some kind of system needs to be in place to keep people from sitting on your smite button, and then when called on it just say "Nuh uh! No I didn't!" like a certain person who recently got caught red-handed with screenshot evidence.
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I agree, BigGuns. That behavior is really aggravating, though that kind of person would probably still claim no fault even if presented with a log with their name, the name of the person they smited, and a time stamp of when it happened.
I would code the features BigGuns suggests myself if you guys would agree to implement it, just to nip this behavior in the bud. But quite frankly, if the advice of all the Powers That Be is to ignore the rep feature entirely, it should just be removed.
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I don't even see a smite button anywhere but maybe Im just not enough of a cool kid to get to smite people.
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I don't even see a smite button anywhere but maybe Im just not enough of a cool kid to get to smite people.
Given that it's an illusory "power", I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. ;)
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Wait... We have power over something? :o
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Wait... We have power over something? :o
We do. You don't.
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Typical.
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Oh hey I can see the applaud and smite buttons now. posting 10 times made me a cool kid.
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+1 for encouragement 8)
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And, I'm sure Clockwork would love the rep system in JackPoint to be overhauled as well since it's obviously unfairly biased against him and those of similar attitude.
Listen, folks, we've gone over this before. The Rep system is meant to give your fellow posters an idea of how to view posts you make. Can it be abused? Sure it can (check out my negative rep, which is 80% of persons upset with me for having FastJack as my handle), but it will stay anonymous. If you take away the anonymity, then the system is no longer viable as an unofficial "peer review". Not too mention changing code for SM forums is a bitch, especially when they send out their updates.
If you feel that someone is unfairly smiting you, smite them back! There's nothing I enjoy more that seeing two people WASTING hours and days of their lives pressing a link every hour to make themselves feel superior to someone they will most likely never meet outside of an electronic debate.
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And, I'm sure Clockwork would love the rep system in JackPoint to be overhauled as well since it's obviously unfairly biased against him and those of similar attitude.
*Cough*Safehouses (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/99534/Shadowrun%3A-Safehouses)*Cough*
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Besides being anonymous and open to abuse, my two biggest problems with the rep system is that you don't know what you've been smitten for and that it shines a negative light on people it shouldn't, it seems that if you correct of disagree with someone you'll get smote at least once (if you're lucky) and possibly chain smitten.
In my eyes it's a griefing tool that some people use to try make forum newcomers disregard posts by people who disagree with them by giving that person a bad rep. We already have a forum policing tool called report post to moderator.
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Besides being anonymous and open to abuse, my two biggest problems with the rep system is that you don't know what you've been smitten for and that it shines a negative light on people it shouldn't, it seems that if you correct of disagree with someone you'll get smote at least once (if you're lucky) and possibly chain smitten.
Pretty much.
Also, Rep has momentum. If one person gets a bug up their arse and decides he/she's going to be an obsessive little cyber-stalker and hammer you until you've got a ton more -Rep than +Rep, people just stop giving you +Rep for things they'd have [applaud]ing you for before, and [smite]ing you for things they would have left alone.
Ever since a certain someone, who I won't name because I don't have any hard evidence, decided make me their pet project and kill my +/- ratio I've seen a massive shift in how my Rep has been accumulating. I haven't changed my posting habits at all, except to try and stop some of the bad habits getting me -Rep, but now magically accumulating more -Rep than +Rep when I was running dead even, possibly even slightly favoring +Rep, before.
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So, the suggestion is that instead of the current Rep system, you'd rather have it so that anytime anyone smites you, 1) there is a log of who smited you, 2) they have to have given a reason for that smite and 3) you want to be able to find out who that person is.
Yeah, that can't go horribly wrong on the internet.
XXX smited YYY on 4/4/2012. The reason was : "because he smited me on 3/12/2011 for calling his dog ugly."
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Or, hell, just don't worry about it at all. You've got a negative rep score? Good. That means you've actually said something on here, and stuck to your guns enough that someone else has decided to waste their time pressing your buttons. Good on you for having an opinion. I'm a little leery of anyone without a negative rep. I think they're up to something.
Think now is a good time to share Critias' words of wisdom, once again.
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I'm still trying to figure out how the hell I have a positive rep.
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I'm still trying to figure out how the hell I have a positive rep.
We know about your second account, you're not fooling anybody anymore.
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I'm still trying to figure out how the hell I have a positive rep.
Because you are funny. lotsa people applaud you when you crack a joke.
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I'm still trying to figure out how the hell I have a positive rep.
Hey I try to blame you here and on FB as much as possible - I'm trying,dude.
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I'm still trying to figure out how the hell I have a positive rep.
It's because some of us feel sorry for you and your lack of actually PLAYING Shadowrun.
(hmm... Might have to contact Harebrained and see if they can't put a "bug" in the system that won't let anyone named CanRay get beyond the opening cinematics... ;))
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It's because some of us feel sorry for you and your lack of actually PLAYING Shadowrun.
(hmm... Might have to contact Harebrained and see if they can't put a "bug" in the system that won't let anyone named CanRay get beyond the opening cinematics... ;))
I know Mike Stackpole's nephew - that's an in, right?
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I know Mike Stackpole's nephew - that's an in, right?
If it helps, I've got Mike's phone number.
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So, the suggestion is that instead of the current Rep system, you'd rather have it so that anytime anyone smites you, 1) there is a log of who smited you, 2) they have to have given a reason for that smite and 3) you want to be able to find out who that person is.
Yeah, that can't go horribly wrong on the internet.
XXX smited YYY on 4/4/2012. The reason was : "because he smited me on 3/12/2011 for calling his dog ugly."
Not quite that far just a who and for what post, though actually having to type in a reason is a good suggestion. How are we to improve if we don't know what we are doing wrong? If I cross a line and offend someone I want to know, that's not what I'm here for.
Edit- I just got smitten and I have no idea why.
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I know Mike Stackpole's nephew - that's an in, right?
If it helps, I've got Mike's phone number.
It warms my heart to see the community come together to ensure certain traditions are maintained (such as Canray's lack of actualyl playing a game)
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Not quite that far just a who and for what post, though actually having to type in a reason is a good suggestion. How are we to improve if we don't know what we are doing wrong? If I cross a line and offend someone I want to know, that's not what I'm here for.
Edit- I just got smitten and I have no idea why.
That's harsh, but sometimes I suspect its random. I'm torn both ways. Like Angelone I would like to know why I'm smited (though in my case, I know it was a Clockwork conversation...), but then again, I suspect the random levels of maturity on the internet in general would just result in the processes of smiting becoming more and more personal, and that cant be good..
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Like the potty-mouthed Uberplayers in FPSes.
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Like the potty-mouthed Uberplayers in FPSes.
Reason #1 someone needs to go ahead and invent Black Hammer.
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morality Black ICE,,
oh dear gods, what have we done?!?!?
*blaspemy detected! countermeasures initiated! EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!!!!*
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I, for one, will welcome our benevolent machine overlords.
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morality Black ICE,,
oh dear gods, what have we done?!?!?
*blaspemy detected! countermeasures initiated! EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!!!!*
Dang you. Now I want someone to figure out how to work up Daleks for SR. :-\
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morality Black ICE,,
oh dear gods, what have we done?!?!?
*blaspemy detected! countermeasures initiated! EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!!!!*
Dang you. Now I want someone to figure out how to work up Daleks for SR. :-\
Cyborgs with custom drone bodies and p-fix chips.
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morality Black ICE,,
oh dear gods, what have we done?!?!?
*blaspemy detected! countermeasures initiated! EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!!!!*
Dang you. Now I want someone to figure out how to work up Daleks for SR. :-\
Cyborgs with custom drone bodies and p-fix chips.
Okay, now to give Aztech an army of Daleks and Ares an army of Cyber-Men. 8)
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and then the pron dept of Horizon does the Dalek XXX Parody "ENSPERMINATE!!!!!
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Megh thought of a neat way around this problem I`m going to smite myself everytime I log on 8)
Do we get a prize when our smite total is better than Just A Dudes?
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Megh thought of a neat way around this problem I`m going to smite myself everytime I log on 8)
Do we get a prize when our smite total is better than Just A Dudes?
Alas the system prevents self smiting ( or patting yourself on the back dammit).
Happy to smite you Dave if you randomly applaud me.... However I suspect dude will find away to maintain his title. After all, titles have power in the sixth world...
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Megh thought of a neat way around this problem I`m going to smite myself everytime I log on 8)
Do we get a prize when our smite total is better than Just A Dudes?
You get a prize when your smite total is higher than mine.
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Megh thought of a neat way around this problem I`m going to smite myself everytime I log on 8)
Do we get a prize when our smite total is better than Just A Dudes?
You get a prize when your smite total is higher than mine.
Pay up. :P
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I've actually been applauding Dude every now and then, to try and bring balance back to the world... so far, not so effective... oh well. :D
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I've actually been applauding Dude every now and then, to try and bring balance back to the world... so far, not so effective... oh well. :D
The problem is that a good, helpful post that is informative, accurate, and and insightful gets maybe 1-2 +1s, compared to a wisecrack getting a dozen or more from people who laugh it up *glares bitterly at CanRay*. Conversely, if you say something confrontational, or the least pit unpolitic, the person you're debating with... and everyone else who doesn't like your "attitude"... will hammer you with -1s every time they see your name, because they don't like you and people are good at being petty.
Also, the existing balance sways the opinion of new posts. People who might Smite CanRay give him a pass because of his outsanding balance, while people who would otherwise leave me alone decide to add to the Smite Parade simply because I'm already a "bad person".
Now, to all the people that are thinking "Wow, this guy sounds like an ass. I'm gonna smite him," let me just say thank you for proving my point.
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I've actually been applauding Dude every now and then, to try and bring balance back to the world... so far, not so effective... oh well. :D
The problem is that a good, helpful post that is informative, accurate, and and insightful gets maybe 1-2 +1s, compared to a wisecrack getting a dozen or more from people who laugh it up *glares bitterly at CanRay*. Conversely, if you say something confrontational, or the least pit unpolitic, the person you're debating with... and everyone else who doesn't like your "attitude"... will hammer you with -1s every time they see your name, because they don't like you and people are good at being petty.
Also, the existing balance sways the opinion of new posts. People who might Smite CanRay give him a pass because of his outsanding balance, while people who would otherwise leave me alone decide to add to the Smite Parade simply because I'm already a "bad person".
Now, to all the people that are thinking "Wow, this guy sounds like an ass. I'm gonna smite him," let me just say thank you for proving my point.
Nah... gave you a plus +1...
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I still have yet to hear an answer to the question, "Why do you care what anonymous people on an internet forum think about you?" Seriously, just be you, and as long as you abide by the TOU and the people you actually care about their opinion don't say you're a total asshole, then everything else is immaterial.
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I still have yet to hear an answer to the question, "Why do you care what anonymous people on an internet forum think about you?" Seriously, just be you, and as long as you abide by the TOU and the people you actually care about their opinion don't say you're a total asshole, then everything else is immaterial.
People shouldn't have to rationalize why they care about things to other people. My friends who chose to not have children don't ask me to explain why I care about my son. Likewise, people who enjoy traveling and experiencing other cultures aren't expected to rationalize their desire to those who prefer to vacation in ways that don't stress their cultural experience.
It is wildly unfair to say, "I don't care, therefore you should not care." Obviously people do, and as humans we should only be empathetic to that.
I have heard people criticize the internet for giving people a layer of anonymity and that makes them unaccountable and therefore more likely to be rude and trolls. A reputation system should attempt to ameliorate that, but all this one does is add a layer of anonymity that gives free reign to target people with no accountability, not even to these false personas we all adopt.
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Megh thought of a neat way around this problem I`m going to smite myself everytime I log on 8)
Do we get a prize when our smite total is better than Just A Dudes?
You get a prize when your smite total is higher than mine.
Pay up. :P
Y'know, I forgot yours was so high...
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I still have yet to hear an answer to the question, "Why do you care what anonymous people on an internet forum think about you?" Seriously, just be you, and as long as you abide by the TOU and the people you actually care about their opinion don't say you're a total asshole, then everything else is immaterial.
People care because they care about being rewarded for their efforts, or at the very least not be punished for them.
I -and many like me- often spend hours (a day [yeah, it's pathetic, I know]) looking up rules or information for people with questions, sharing cool shadowrun-related art/technological/sci-fi finds, checking out other people's characters and backgrounds to help them out, building and writing pages of material for PbPs or fanfic, etc... And we do all this out of love for this game and to help others who share this passion for such a great game.
But then after a day of contributing, I see that for no apparent reason (my only posts having been "Man, that was funny, +1!" and some PM's to players in my PbP game) my reputation dropped another 3 points... And yes, I care.
Congratulations on the fact that you, apparently, have enough self-esteem, confidence or just don't care enough to let this affect you.
But some people do care. Enough to just say "You know, F* this. If that's all the reward I get for all the hours and effort I spent, it's just not worth it any more." And this way, good and decent people are bullied away by a few assholes.
And personally, sometimes I'm really saddened and disappointed that the people behind the forum don't seem to care enough about the devoted fans trying to contribute to their game to prevent or stop this kind of abuse. Luckily/sadly, that's only on the rare moments when my low confidence and self-esteem aren't protected by thick walls of apathy.
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I still have yet to hear an answer to the question, "Why do you care what anonymous people on an internet forum think about you?" Seriously, just be you, and as long as you abide by the TOU and the people you actually care about their opinion don't say you're a total asshole, then everything else is immaterial.
People care because they care about being rewarded for their efforts, or at the very least not be punished for them.
I -and many like me- often spend hours (a day [yeah, it's pathetic, I know]) looking up rules or information for people with questions, sharing cool shadowrun-related art/technological/sci-fi finds, checking out other people's characters and backgrounds to help them out, building and writing pages of material for PbPs or fanfic, etc... And we do all this out of love for this game and to help others who share this passion for such a great game.
But then after a day of contributing, I see that for no apparent reason (my only posts having been "Man, that was funny, +1!" and some PM's to players in my PbP game) my reputation dropped another 3 points... And yes, I care.
Congratulations on the fact that you, apparently, have enough self-esteem, confidence or just don't care enough to let this affect you.
But some people do care. Enough to just say "You know, F* this. If that's all the reward I get for all the hours and effort I spent, it's just not worth it any more." And this way, good and decent people are bullied away by a few assholes.
And personally, sometimes I'm really saddened and disappointed that the people behind the forum don't seem to care enough about the devoted fans trying to contribute to their game to prevent or stop this kind of abuse. Luckily/sadly, that's only on the rare moments when my low confidence and self-esteem aren't protected by thick walls of apathy.
I appreciate everything everyone here adds to the game, and I get the frustration of the negative rep when all you want to do is promote the game and add to it and see what good comes to it.
But here's a couple things to consider:
1) We could do away with the Rep system altogether. Honestly, after the months of hearing posters complain about this, I'm falling more and more into this camp. What should be something that shows how a person is viewed by the community is looking more broken every time and the fact that more people complain about getting smited is showing that everybody loves a trophy but can't handle criticism.
2) We could look into putting code in place to record the smites/applauds in a database, or something similar. The main problem with this is that it requires a lot of coding and maintaining, something that's really not in the cards without full-time non-volunteer admins and moderators.
3) We could continue as-is. No offense, but this means people will be required to grow a thicker skin. Yes, you contribute to the game and there are a lot of people that appreciate that. But, for X number of people that appreciate it, there will be Y number that hate your idea and think it's just wrong. Or don't like you and think you should just leave. So, no matter what, you're not going to please everyone everytime.
I don't mean to single you out Xzylvador, but your post struck a note with me in that you're feeling that your contributions aren't worth it due to negative feedback. Catalyst has a number of freelancers and full-time workers that are getting paid for their contributions and, more often than not, have to put up with a LOT more negative feedback than a smite on a forums board. People in all walks of life are dealing with negatives in their work just because co-workers, bosses, employees or even customers just don't like them, and it has nothing to do with the quality of their work.
I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm a bit grumpy about this, but the fact is, I am. So, I'm going to start an anonymous poll on the subject. We'll let it run a while (probably about a month, though I figure we'll get 95% of the votes in the first week), and let you guys show you opinion on the matter. Then we'll take the results and make a decision on where to go with this.
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Here's the poll (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=8324.0), locking this thread. If you have further comments on the subject, go over there.