[AndyNakamura]

Don't take this personal if I'm wrong, but it looks like in whatever runner bar you happen to end up in, you can't spit without hitting a violent psychopath armed to the teeth with highly lethal weapons. Yeah, I get it. The world is a big sack of crap, neither the corps nor the govs give the proverbial flying one about you, and the only way you can survive is if you pack enough heat to turn a Kamikaze'd rhino into red mist. But sometimes I look at people I work with, and I can't help but think that a prerequisite to becoming a runner is having one's empathy surgically removed.

Anyways. *gets off high horse*

Morality aside, there are obvious advantages to the non-lethal approach. One, you're not wanted for murder, only assault. Two, the friends, family, and employers of that security guard you knocked out are less likely to come gunning for you (or send your colleagues to do the job for them) than those of the one you turned into wallpaper. Three, non-lethal agents come in a variety of nifty, fast-acting, SILENT packages, which your average opposition tends not to protect themselves against.

Thoughts, preferences, tactics?

[valavaern]

By the rules, stick-n-shock ammo is extremely effective, and works with your prefered weapons skills, but also ludicrous and idiotic to think about, and often house-ruled into only working in shotguns, bows and crossbows.  There's also gel rounds, which are slightly less effective, but still pretty silly in high-powered guns.

EVERY mage should have at least one of the Mana stun spells (knockout, manabolt, or manaball), as the drain for them is laughably low, even when over-casting, and with a decent roll, can take out most enemies in one shot.

[Black]

Agree with Valavaern.  Both Stick n Shock and Stun Bolt/Ball are extremely effective and will cover most situations.

Gas Grenade with Neurostun are also useful, as are Splash Grenades with Freeze Foam.

Mob Mind, while not in the same category, will also allow non-lethal takedowns of large low-will groups.  But then so will Orgy... a spell I do not like at all.

[valavaern]

But then so will Orgy... a spell I do not like at all.

But it's so much fun... and makes your GM extremely uncomfortable to boot!  :3

[Black]

Ahhh... but as the GM, that would be me

Nothing like having the team face of against a pack of ghouls/orcs/ Alamos 20k fanatics.... and then need to describe what happens next...   Breaks my beat and after that, its all down hill...

[TheNarrator]

I've always been fond of loaidng capsule rounds with Narcoject and DMSO. The combined stun damage from the impact of the capsule round and the Narcoject will drop most targets. However, the Narcoject is technically not supposed to take effect until the end of the Turn; some GMs house rule it to work immediately, but officially it works a little too slowly for use in a firefight.

Stick-n-Shock, as has been mentioned, is fairly effective. Additionally, gel rounds and capsule rounds deal stun damage, and depending on the weapon, may deal more damage than SnS. Sure, the armor isn't halved, but impact armor on a geneeric NPC tends to be pretty weak anyway. Tasers work quite well, as well.

Stunball and Stunbolt work fantastically well. Any half-decent PC mage can dish out stun spells at high Force all day long with little chance of Drain, and be almost certain that they'll drop any target that doesn't have Spell Defense.

Grenades of either Flashbang or Gas with Neurostun variety are also available. If you're running without at least a Gas Mask, if not a Chemical Seal, then you won't be running long.

The game is full of non-lethal options, and unlike a lot of other games they actually work pretty well without placing you at a disadvantage, so players are actually willing to use them. Killing guys just doing their job is bad for business, and easy to avoid.

But then so will Orgy... a spell I do not like at all.

Neither do I. I'm glad that nobody has ever tried to take it in a game I've been in, because it creeps me out. There's no way that casting this on people without permission wouldn't qualify you for membership on the sex offender registry in the Sixth World.

[farothel]

Another option I've been exploring is darts (like those used to put animals to sleep in zoos and such) loaded with Laes.  They go to sleep for an hour or more and they don't remember you shooting them either, which is also very useful.  Just dart the guard, put him somewhere in a corner and it looks like he has fallen asleep on the job.  And if you can't get in and back out of whatever facility you are invading in one hour, it probably doesn't matter anymore.

[TheNarrator]

Laes is one of the most effective knockout drug options around. Nigh-impossible to resist, and wipes their memory of the last few hours so that they can't tell anyone anything incriminating about you. Some past groups I've played in had a great love of using it to cover their tracks. It certainly isn't cheap, however.

[farothel]

Actually I mostly take the low-level option.  I keep forgetting if that's Laes or Lael.  The one that's only about an hour or so, instead of almost a day of lost memories.  It's a lot cheaper and for runners you don't need the guard to loose the last half-day.  In fact, it's better not, because then they know that someone tried something on him.  Just an hour or so and drop him somewhere to sleep it off and he will think he just fell asleep.

[_Pax_]

EVERY mage should have at least one of the Mana stun spells (knockout, manabolt, or manaball), as the drain for them is laughably low, even when over-casting, and with a decent roll, can take out most enemies in one shot.

  Disagree, slightly.  Not every mage needs to be able to do P damage.  Yes, every age should have some sort of spell able to deal damage, or otherwise able to incapacitate someone (Decrease Attribute, even).  But it doesn't have to be the kind of damage that kills. 

[Mirikon]

Well, for most of my characters, I do include nonlethal options, in the form of SnS ammo. However, one of my favorite characters, Iceblade, almost never carries SnS, and even if he does, he doesn't use it unless the mission specifically calls for it. He also doesn't have ANY stun spells, whatsoever. Why? Because he follows Shark. Shark is the Destroyer, the avatar of Death in the seas. Shark sees distress, and ends it, quickly, efficiently, without remorse or pity, without mercy or malice. That is Shark's function in the world.

[TheFinish]

I've actually used Orgasm and Orgy more than once, and let me tell you, you're better off taking Manabolt/Ball anyway. Although it IS loads of fun, especially if you "accidentally" catch a teammate in Orgy's Area.

[CanRay]

Troll/Dwarf Pornomancer and a drinking challenge.

[Mirikon]

I've actually used Orgasm and Orgy more than once, and let me tell you, you're better off taking Manabolt/Ball anyway. Although it IS loads of fun, especially if you "accidentally" catch a teammate in Orgy's Area.

On its own, Orgasm/Orgy isn't that great. Sustaining it while you attack the person with a weapon focus, however, is much nicer. Some people think too much about instant effect, and neglect the potential of lasting effects to weaken an otherwise much tougher foe.

[WSN0W]

Really sounds more like a confidence thing if the problem is overloaded Runners everywhere. Beyond the several ammo types there is the amazing combat style of...unarmed combat. Especially if you're going into a bar or some other 'social gathering place.'

You don't need to be a super augmented death machine/adept to be able to hold your own in a bar/social scene, even if its a 'for real' fight unless the GM is one of those ones that constantly has Cyberzombies crash the party or if you leave your panther cannon unattended for 30 seconds it gets stolen. I rarely use more than pistols with most characters and that's largely because walking around with anything bigger just isn't practical 90% of the time. And I get a smuggling compartment in my bike to stash the pistol and tag eraser when I need to go in somewhere that might be security consious and not worth the 'sneaking it into' hassel, trusting on minor augmentations and unarmed combat skills. Can it suck when you do hit a truly armed/armored response team when you're wearing your armored biz clothes? Sure, but that can also lead to some awesome cinimatic scenes if your GM isn't trying to go for highest player kill count. And if the GM is trying to smear the players it usually signals the game is on the fast track to campaign graveyard.

"Hah, I can survive hits from tanks!"
"Well, the city blows up. Jack Bauer passed on from old age so he wasnt' around to stop the nuke from going off. You and everyone else is dead."
"...."

But then I also see Shadowruner as surgical tools and inheriantly of an elite class. High body counts (stunned or otherwise) tends to mean something has gone off the rails or you are taking a major, planned offensive. Chaotic street violence is the providence of gangs and other criminals and wannabies. That doesn't mean Shadowruners shouldn't kill, just when they do its for a clear purpose. Mirkon's Shark shaman didn't come across as being a rampaging death machine...just when force needed to be applied it was not held back.