[Voran]

As far as I know this wasn't covered in the various matrix related addn sourcebooks, and I'm gathering its more from a 'kind of like how we don't want to really give rules on how PCs could bypass the fake SIN/ID system and do it themselves' I'm figuring its a 'we don't really want to put rules towards this' for things like 'can I build my own fairlight excal quality deck and open source/program it myself?"

I also get something of the sense of "once you get a Fairlight Excal, if ever, you could jailbreak it and fiddle with its stuff so its not ratting out on you or doing automatic updates without your consent/etc' but also no one in the setting has done a 'I've cloned the OS of a Fairlight Excal that you guys can use on your homebrew tinkered decks you made'

In terms of the way the rules set it up, there's no option to buy your own individual components and 'build your own desktop/cyberdeck' without it being anything better than a rating 1, even if you were Fastjack or something.  There was also an aside of commlink descriptions that went "you can't have a rating 3 commlink and make it look like a rating 6 one' and 'you can't have a rating 6 one and make it look like a rating 3 one'  I mean sure, Form Function you could make the casing look different but it would 'be obvious' you're running a high tier device if you had one, instead of making it seem worse than it is.  Which....sounds like it bypasses the whole 'edit icon' kind of thing.  You can make your gun look like a potato with RFID if you want, but not make a commlink DR 6 look worse than it is?

Anyway, back to cyberdecks and stuff.  It made me wonder, since Fairlights are actually pretty rare out in the world, especially if you do something like "Fairlight Paladin, yep, there are less than 20 in the WHOLE WORLD" you start thinking, "Why would you ever buy one? Wouldn't that make you immediately noticeable to GOD?"  Hey guys look, there's some guy using one of the 17 Paladins in the world over here, wonder what's going on? kind of thing.

Going back to my original jailbreak thought, I figure much like modern smartphones and stuff, or computer OS/etc, they get updates.  Probably some data sharing info back to the manufacturer.  Now, any runner would immediately try their best to disable those functions and either do like I think...Glitch?...does by checking all updates line by line before letting it touch his stuff.

I think about Windows 10 and such, you can sorta do 'free no license windows 10' with some restrictions and such, but it also kind of feels like in setting that OS is way specific to hardware and there isn't really a true no license version unless you hack it somehow.  Higher end deck manufacturers want to maintain that exclusivity, so I don't know/don't believe there would be a "Linux for FL Excalibur" would there?

[mcv]

Cyberdecks are specifically meant for security stuff, aren't they? Be it defensive or offensive. So I'd expect them to give way more control to their owner than even the fanciest comlink.

I don't know what the rules say about it, but I would expect a Fairlight Paladin to be able to spoof its identity to appear more harmless than it is. Or certainly not something that would make alarms go off. Maybe upon close inspection it quickly becomes obvious what it is, but nobody is going to inspect every device on their network closely enough for that.

The system doesn't really deal with operating systems, but I would expect cyberdecks to be open and loaded with all the power tools any hacker might need, rather than the closed, smooth, walled garden experience of consumer-oriented comlinks. Cyberdecks may be able to do the same things a comlink can do, but they can do a lot more on top of that. They're not comlinks. They're not comlinks with some extra features. They're devices that allow you to break or circumvent all the rules. They will absolutely run the 2070s version of Linux, and not the 2070s version of iOS.

[FastJack]

I always saw the cost of the fake SINs as either you're paying someone to do it for you, or here's the cost for the time and materials to do it yourself. Even with programming, you still have to get the data for the SIN, and that's bribing, buying, or run resources.

[Rapier]

Fake sins arent fake id where you just get a forged peice of paper. Its a process where a fake history is created and inserted in many databases. Its a complex and lenghty process that cannot be done with just one person.

One thing that is questionnable is that the runners' real biometric data has to be used in the fake id so anyone getting your fake id thus has your real biologicals. Thus the real notion of long term anonymity is debatable.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Nor are fake SINs made to order.  Not the good ones, anyway... they need to just be out there, existing for a while, to add to their bona fides.

A fake SIN that didn't exist yesterday will never have the veracity of a fake SIN that's been cultivated in The System for years.  That kind of crafting/hacking isn't covered by the rules that focus on the here and now of shadowrunning.

[Voran]

more musing on IDs and stuff.

There's this line in the old Manhattan book which quips about data balkanization, where corps don't really want to share info cleanly with each other, with 'oops partially corrupted' data being shared with the larger whole.  I kinda figure the larger SIN stuff and IDs being like that too.

A power that is, mega, nation, whatever, wants to maximize the info it gets and minimize the info it gives out.  Problem is everyone else feels the same way.  generally, no one gives a crap about peons or wageslaves, so those make the easy bulk of numbers shared cleanly making it seem like everyone is cooperating with the system.

But where it falls apart is when you consider ever power has covert assets, or otherwise wants to keep secrets.  Executive Vice President Toolface may want to slum it from time to time in licktown, or in house company men may get sent to other areas to do company business off the radar.  Undercover Cop dude wants to be able to do their job without "HI! I'M A COP" squealing from his ID.  I figure part of the fake ID setup is because of that reason, every major power wants to hide shit, and that lets other people hide shit too.

more musing after work

[kyoto kid]

...fake SINs in 5E are actually quite a bargain compared to what they were in 3E.  To get a decent rating that would defeat most scanners (similar to a rating 4 in 5E) it cost you about 30,000¥ (Rating 6)  If you really wanted to be sure, you were looking at 40,000¥ or much more.  If you were forced to burn it, it could take some time to replace it with a new one of the same rating.

As to custom decks,  I really hoped there would have been rules for this in Kill Code like we had in the 3E Matrix supplement.  Yeah they presented a somewhat "hacked" system but it is pretty worthless as the deck attributes are "locked", meaning they cannot be swapped, and firewall has a higher availability modifier than the other attributes meaning you need to have one heck of a negotiation pool or a contact who has one to get a decent enough rating to protect your investment.

[BeCareful]

As for me, I was always slightly dismayed at the fact that Software, as a skill, doesn't have a stated relation to the Build/Repair table.
I guess your GM could always let you use that instead of an Availability test, as in, "I'm writing my own Signal Scrub program during downtime!"

[Voran]

Yeah, its too bad that the guy with the 6+ rating in software can't really bypass the 'you gotta pay for it' setup, but at the same time I kinda get it.

A bit off my own topic, but at times I've wondered if you should get rid of 'pay' in terms of pure nuyen values.  Like a mix of the storyteller approach 'resources as a tier' kind of thing, or like a floating availability roll thing.  Successful runs/etc allow you to increase your threshold for availability stuff, and stuff vastly below your tier you don't even need to roll for.  The flipside is a roleplay understanding that you can't just turn around and buy a bazillion no-roll low-availability things and turn that into profit.

Going back to my Rigger love, then it turns into a thing where the Rigger isn't really worried he's dropping hundreds of thousands in potential damage sinks and getting back small potatoes in pay.

[Michael Chandra]

As for me, I was always slightly dismayed at the fact that Software, as a skill, doesn't have a stated relation to the Build/Repair table.
I guess your GM could always let you use that instead of an Availability test, as in, "I'm writing my own Signal Scrub program during downtime!"

There were rules in SR4. They were... Complex. They involved deteriorating ratings for both hacked and manually-written programs due to becoming outdated compared to current protocols. Theoretically you could write higher rating than was available, but it'd take a lot of equipment, several people and a few years to write something really worth it.

I did simulate that for an NPC Shadowrunner gang writing their own Pilot software for their patrol drones. It took real effort.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I'm not sorry they dropped rules for creating your own programs in 5e.  I don't even want to bother learning rules governing how to get around paying 80 or 250 nuyen.  Just pay the frikkin cash already.

[Michael Chandra]

True, but then again in SR4 it even involved writing higher-rating Pilots. So at that point being able to program and copy your Pilot software, rather than buying it all, was still cheap. You'd only have to buy the hardware upgrade instead.

In SR6 it might be nice if you can write your own custom software, with upside 'gain 1 Edge when using custom options' and downside 'leave matrix signature when using custom options'. I should consider that as a houserule. But first to find out how easily Deckers can gain Edge.

[Voran]

game balance wise I'm ok with the notion of if you've got high programming/etc this means you can maintain your programs and stuff at their level, even when 'jail broken' and no longer taking direct updates from the manufacturers.

Its kind of 'behind the scenes' stuff that doesn't have its own ruleset.  I'm also kinda glad they got rid of optional/etc rules of 'upkeep'. 

[Reaver]

Also remember, that writing code for a complex piece of gear is not something you do over the course of a weekend...

It takes a TEAM of writers to write any piece of software beyond your garden variety spreadsheet. Care to ask Chummer5isAlive how many hours he has on Chummer? And despite all that time, some things in chummer still don't work correctly. (and considering Chummer5isalive is a single person working on it -as far as I know- its AMAZING how well it does work! If looking for a free character generator, Chummer is for you!).

Apparently Cyberpunk 2077 - that game that has been in development for 6 years!- got reworked several times over because of changes in technology...
How many people are working on Star Citizen? How much money has been taken in? And its due out WHEN?!? (I smell vapourware here)

There is no way even a top notch hacker or technomancer would be able to keep pace with entire teams of programmers who are working with mega-corp resources... Which in turn, means you would never be able to program a "Pilot" program past, maybe 3 in rating... (and that is pushing it)


Even the relatively simple programming language I use in instrumentation programming takes weeks to write out and test to make sure it works and we don't end up damaging equipment or killing people! (It's always a fun day when your traffic control program INTENTIONALLY causes people to get T-boned).

Sadly, it also comes down to game balance as well... which is why I think they have done away with with a lot of the C.Y.O. rules.. be that spells, gun mods, or drones....
(and for examples of what I am talking about, just view the 4e forums from when they brought in gun mods! Away with you Assault rifles and machine guns! HELLO Fully auto barretts with clip extenders and a toilet paper dispensers! <faceplam>)
And, when even a modicum of common sense was raised..... well you can just imagine

[Michael Chandra]

Spells are actively designed in SR6 to be modular for CYO once magic book comes out. So who knows.