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Xzylvador

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« Reply #30 on: <09-29-11/1847:46> »
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    Recommendations:
    Bioware: Tailored Pheromones: 3 (9 BP)
Honestly, I'd HIGHLY advise removing this. As an Awakened, you are screwing yourself by putting in an implant. My advice is to use either implants or magic, but never put implants in a mage or adept.


It's done quite often.
You lose 1 point of magic but gain +3 dice in 5 of your most important skills and have some essence left to spend on other things you might find useful, Pheromone Receptors come to mind (another +2 in most situations), but it might just as well be cybereyes (and later retinal duplication), fingertip compartments, dynamic fingerprints, genewipes or anything else that doesn't drop you another point of essence. It's more than worth the cost for a face IMO.
It might be a bit cheesy, but it's very yummy cheese.

Glyph

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« Reply #31 on: <09-29-11/2232:07> »
To get Kinesics: 3, you only need a Magic of 3, and only spend 1.5 points of it.  So you can definitely afford to lose a point of Magic, or even 2.  That's why adepts come out ahead purely in the specializing sense - they can have kinesics, and have useful 'ware, too.

It all costs, though, and the mundane, while behind purely in a face's main dice pools, will be more versatile in some way, whether it be gear, skills, or contacts.  Plus, there are so many ways to pump up social dice pools that access to one or two "extra" ones are not an insurmountable advantage.

One thing I didn't mention is empathy software - this is both because I personally consider it cheesy, and because I get the impression most GMs disallow it in their campaigns.  All I will say is that if it is allowed, you almost have to take it, because everyone else will be getting it.

kirk

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« Reply #32 on: <09-29-11/2241:24> »
To get Kinesics: 3, you only need a Magic of 3, and only spend 1.5 points of it.  So you can definitely afford to lose a point of Magic, or even 2.  That's why adepts come out ahead purely in the specializing sense - they can have kinesics, and have useful 'ware, too.

It all costs, though, and the mundane, while behind purely in a face's main dice pools, will be more versatile in some way, whether it be gear, skills, or contacts.  Plus, there are so many ways to pump up social dice pools that access to one or two "extra" ones are not an insurmountable advantage.

One thing I didn't mention is empathy software - this is both because I personally consider it cheesy, and because I get the impression most GMs disallow it in their campaigns.  All I will say is that if it is allowed, you almost have to take it, because everyone else will be getting it.
As I mentioned in another thread, empathy software as described is actually doable given the sensors described. I'm not sure the scaling is right but the concept definitely is.
Pupil dilation. Breathing pattern. Blood flow, both pulse rate and pressure. Twitches.  All are very well known physiological actions that experienced negotiators/bargainers have used for (literally) centuries as indicators.

Add databases for cultural cues (verbal and body language) not only for what you're seeing but what's "right" on your part in response fed through your audio and video AR system.

They teach this sort of thing to negotiators and in some sales classes.

Joush

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« Reply #33 on: <09-29-11/2300:32> »
Street Samarui Skeleton. Cost: 260 BP

This is a baseline skeleton to create a ranged-focused cyber and bio augmented street samurai, with backup ability in close combat. The current outline results in a fast, (reaction 6, 3IP), agile and somewhat tough character no GM should find generally objectionable. The numbers in (parenthesis) are the attribute levels if you play as a human, but this skeleton can work with any metatype.


Attributes
Body +3 (4) 30bp
Agility +3 (4) 30bp
Reaction +3 (4)30bp
Strength +1 (2) 10bp
Intuition +1 (2) 10bp
Logic +1 (2) 10bp
Charisma +1 (2) 10bp
Willpower +2 (3) 20bp

Total: 150 here. You may and probably should spend 50 more points on attributes. You may want to increase Intuition, resulting in better senses and initiative, and may want to "soft cap" Agility, Body or Reaction by setting them to one below their maximum natural value. A Troll, Orc or Dwarf will be stronger and tougher then a human street sam while an elf will be more agile and charismatic. You will also likely want to invest in Edge rather then leaving it at it's base level, few things are better for getting you out of bad situations. Points spend on Edge don't count to the 200 total you may have invested in physical and mental attributes.

Skills
Armorer 1. 4bp
Heavy Weapons 2. 8bp
Cybertechnology 1. 4bp
Firearms Skill Group 3 OR Automatics 5 (Assault Rifles), Pistols 1, Longarms 1. 30bp
Close Combat Skill Group 2. 20bp
Perception 3. 12bp
Doge 2. 8bp

Total: 90 here. Your skills are a faint outline of basic abilities. You will almost certainly want to invest in some basic level of Charisma linked skills and at least one or two levels in Infiltration to allow you to escape attention. That can be the difference between life and death when working in the shadows. Armorer and Cybertechnology allow you to perform basic maintenance on your own equipment but unless you increase them and your Logic attribute you are likely to need a good amount of uninterrupted time to use them. If you want to use grenades safely make sure to pick up Thrown Weapons. With Doge 2 you only get a modest bonus for spending an action to doge in ranged combat and may want to increase it to 4.

Gear
Licences:
+Wired Reflexes (Rating 4) (400)
+Muscle Argumentation (Rating 3) (300)
+Muscle Toner (Rating 3) (300)

Cyberware:
Wired Reflexes Rating 2 (Alpha) (64,000) (2.4 Essance)

Bioware:
Muscle Augmentation Rating 2 (14,000) (.4 Essance, .2 When Installed)
Muscle Toner Rating 2 (16,000) (.4 Essence, .2 When Installed)
Platelet Factories (25,000) (.2 Essence, .1 When Installed)

Total here: 120,000 Nuyan costing 24BP and uses 2.9 Essence, leaving 3.1 remaining.

You may want to pick up Reaction Enhancers(Initiative and Defensive), a Reflex Recorder for the Firearms skill group (A purely offensive upgrade), possibly bone density enhancements, bone laiceing, orthoskin or even cyberlimbs (Toughness upgrades). 

Pick up firearms, a fake SIN, a comlink and anything that fits and personalizes your character.  In any case, you can handle the encumbrance of a Armored Jacket and may want to pick one up along with a high rating medkit and visual and audio devices that offer sensory enhancement in either implanted cybernetic or glasses and earbuds.
« Last Edit: <10-02-11/0518:03> by Joush »

The Big Peat

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« Reply #34 on: <09-30-11/0159:27> »
Improved Attribute is only for physical stats; you cannot boost mental attributes like Charisma with it.

Kinesics Mastery is in Spy Games. It is strictly for silly - you can communicate with body language...but only with other people dumb enough to waste .5 pp on Kinesics Mastery.

It's even sillier as Kinesics straight out the bag allows people to undertake simple communications with body language with other Adepts who have kinesics. I missed Kinesics Mastery, which I'll put down to my brain blanking it, but that is a strong contender for the worst Adept power of them all. Actually, that sounds like a fun thread...


Honestly, I'd HIGHLY advise removing this. As an Awakened, you are screwing yourself by putting in an implant. My advice is to use either implants or magic, but never put implants in a mage or adept.

Xzylvador's touched on this but it's pretty common. In fact, I'd say the received wisdom here and everywhere else I've read - and I agree with it utterly - is that 99.9% of the time its better to be an Augmented Adept than just an Adept. The benefits you get when you compare what you can cram in for one point of essence and what you can get for one point of magic is slightly ridiculous and it has been debated endlessly.

I wouldn't have put it on a character skeleton, because I don't believe in handing out all the goodies just like that, but if I'm going for effectiveness I'll be mixing the two every time.

Magicians are slightly different, but even they normally benefit from a point of cyber...


--

Joush - I'd question the use of the Firearms skill group and would personally pick up the Close Combat Group (4bp for Blunt Weapons 2). Also, he has no active defences, I'd add that to the skeleton myself.

Joush

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« Reply #35 on: <09-30-11/0330:00> »
I agree with the point about no active defenses and CC skill group and added Doge 2. I'll defend Firearms SG however. Building that way  means that the street sam skeleton can pick out whatever weapons they like when personalizing the character and can buy the 4th level in the SG to boost themselves a bit more.  Granted, from an optimization point just taking automatics 6 (Assault Rifles) and one rank in Pistols would be a better choice.
« Last Edit: <09-30-11/0348:25> by Joush »

The Big Peat

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« Reply #36 on: <09-30-11/0630:49> »
On the skill groups - and tbh, this is a problem with close combat as well - its not about optimisation so much as that I'd always put one of my combat skills above 4. I mean, why wouldn't you? Which is why I'd never encourage a Street Sam to think in terms of skill groups for his primary combat focus.

Also, I know I said it... but dodge 2 is pretty much worthless. It really is 4 or nothing. In hindsight, just mention active defences in the "fleshing out options" I guess...

Mason

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« Reply #37 on: <09-30-11/1214:05> »
Dodge 1 is quite worthwhile. Eliminates defaulting to dodge melee.

Joush

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« Reply #38 on: <09-30-11/1830:57> »
I get what you mean but at most tables, 11 dice (6 agility, 3 skill, 2 smartlink) to fire a gun is acceptable for a starting character to be effective in combat, especially considering this is a skeleton intended to be customized and upgraded by the player with the remaining BP. Even 9 dice for non-smartlinked firearms is enough to reflect someone quite capable with a firearm.

That said, I added the option to go with a rather more efficient, customization/optimization built to firearms skills.

Doge 2 is hardly worthless, but your right, I'll add a note about increasing doge.
« Last Edit: <09-30-11/1838:04> by Joush »

kirk

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« Reply #39 on: <10-01-11/1747:32> »
Taking a look again at Glyph's face recommendation:

Why Commanding Voice as a "recommended face" adept skill?

I actually see it fairly frequently, yet it seems, well, not useful for any of the social persuasions I think of for "face".

Glyph

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« Reply #40 on: <10-01-11/2202:44> »
It's not useful for subtle persuasions, but it is useful in more antagonistic situations, such as forcing someone to toss aside their weapon, let go of a hostage, etc.  It also fits the overall theme of someone with supernatural social abilities.  And since the face will have leadership: 4 and a soft-maxed Charisma, it will usually be effective.

Joush

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« Reply #41 on: <10-02-11/0432:03> »
On the skill groups - and tbh, this is a problem with close combat as well - its not about optimisation so much as that I'd always put one of my combat skills above 4. I mean, why wouldn't you? Which is why I'd never encourage a Street Sam to think in terms of skill groups for his primary combat focus.

Also, I know I said it... but dodge 2 is pretty much worthless. It really is 4 or nothing. In hindsight, just mention active defences in the "fleshing out options" I guess...

Had a thought about this, and to reply.. I wouldn't start with a combat skill above 4, generally, because 5 and 6 represent superlative capability in a skill that generally isn't going to fit for a starting character and at 6 there is nowhere for a player character to go with skill advancement.

Honestly, how many concepts can fit "better then an elite commando" levels of weapon skill? People with 5 or 6 in a skill generally train that skill more or less constantly. Getting it with Karma later can feel right as a reward for hard won experience, but the max or nothing system that Shadowrun optimization encourages just feels wrong to me. 

Phylos Fett

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« Reply #42 on: <10-02-11/0454:45> »
On the skill groups - and tbh, this is a problem with close combat as well - its not about optimisation so much as that I'd always put one of my combat skills above 4. I mean, why wouldn't you? Which is why I'd never encourage a Street Sam to think in terms of skill groups for his primary combat focus.

Also, I know I said it... but dodge 2 is pretty much worthless. It really is 4 or nothing. In hindsight, just mention active defences in the "fleshing out options" I guess...

Had a thought about this, and to reply.. I wouldn't start with a combat skill above 4, generally, because 5 and 6 represent superlative capability in a skill that generally isn't going to fit for a starting character and at 6 there is nowhere for a player character to go with skill advancement.

Honestly, how many concepts can fit "better then an elite commando" levels of weapon skill? People with 5 or 6 in a skill generally train that skill more or less constantly. Getting it with Karma later can feel right as a reward for hard won experience, but the max or nothing system that Shadowrun optimization encourages just feels wrong to me.

I must say, this is one of the things that I've found to be a downside for SR4(A) - the so-called starting characters don't seem to be that - they are usually the top of their field.

Glyph

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« Reply #43 on: <10-02-11/1612:54> »
What I like about the Street Samurai skeleton is that it gives the newbie a choice between a skill group and some individual skills.  Skill groups let you get a number of skills at a discount, trading in some ability right out of the starting gate for more versatility, and a lower eventual cost to have all of those skills at a high rating.  But this is a good tactic only if you actually need and plan to use all of those skills.

There is nothing wrong with starting out with 5's and 6's in your skills, though.  One of the character creation examples starts out with a 6 in pistols.  The way I see it, a combat skill of 5 is for someone like a street samurai, ex-military, former company man, former underworld enforcer, or mercenary.  Someone who does violent things for a living - not just throwing out drunks, patrolling the streets, or guarding a compound, but regularly dealing with potentially lethal situations.  A skill of 6 is pulling away from even that a bit.   You become more defined by the skill than your role, almost.  A guy with 6 in unarmed combat would be called a "street fighter" or "martial artist".  Someone with a 6 in pistols would be called a "marksman" or a "gunslinger".  But they are well within the range for starting characters, because they usually still need a lot of lateral improvement before they can properly be called the best at their job.

Joush

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« Reply #44 on: <10-02-11/1812:51> »
I get what you mean, but by the book examples for level 5 in a skill are elite soldiers that spend all their time either in training or engaging in missions. Level 5 is SEALs, SAS and GSG9. In the book, 6 in a skill is when you get to legends like Ghost who walks Inside. It seems wrong that a starting character should be expected to begin at legendary ability with no room for improvement. The character that starts with 6 in Pistols is built around perfecting ability with handguns to the degree where her/his skills are literally magical.